Aging rules for stouts?

[BrewmeisterSmith]

I recently made a batch of sweet stout and many of the recipes that I have seen says to keep it in the primary for 30 days. Is there any reasoning behind waiting 30 days vs 2 weeks? I'm relatively new to stout brewing, so I have no clue. I was thinking about a 2 week primary fermentation, 1 week secondary with my additions, and then about 1-2 weeks in the keg. Does anyone have a method they follow with success?

 

[Yooper]

I recently made a batch of sweet stout and many of the recipes that I have seen says to keep it in the primary for 30 days. Is there any reasoning behind waiting 30 days vs 2 weeks? I'm relatively new to stout brewing, so I have no clue. I was thinking about a 2 week primary fermentation, 1 week secondary with my additions, and then about 1-2 weeks in the keg. Does anyone have a method they follow with success?

I'm not a fan of those 30 day primaries, and have never done that. I think there is a contingent of brewers that always routinely do a longer primary, and it doesn't have much to do with beer type. If the beer is done, and clear, in 15 days, it's not going to get "doner" in 30 days. So I don't see any advantage to aging it on the yeast beyond that point.

 

[SPR-GRN]

I'm still in the "racks to secondary" camp - typically 2wks primary then as long as it takes in secondary. the only reasons I see for sitting in primary that long are if you 1) arent doing a secondary 2) you're lazy 3.) for some reason the recipe calls for it.
The longer beer sits the more "stuff" will drop out (protiens, yeast etc.) There is a sect of brewers that don't do secondary anymore; for my recent cider I didn't do a secondary, and it sat in primary (glass carboy) for better than a month before it clarified.
this post may not be helpful at all.

 

[Hopper5000]

If you leave it on the cake the yeast will clean up the impurities it produces from fermentation that can cause off flavors like diacityl and other compounds. 2 weeks is probably fine for low gravity beers but bigger beers might take a month for this process to be fully efficient.

 

[krenshaw]

i used to always do a month in primary then straight to keg.. now i usually do around 3 weeks.. i'm too lazy/forgetful to test it to see when it is actually done, though i'll probably be doing that soon and doing more of 2 week primary as long as its finished

 

[Yooper]

If you leave it on the cake the yeast will clean up the impurities it produces from fermentation that can cause off flavors like diacityl and other compounds. 2 weeks is probably fine for low gravity beers but bigger beers might take a month for this process to be fully efficient.

I know what you're saying, but that doesn't make sense scientifically.

Those off-flavors like diacetyl (produced by the yeast, but then digested by the yeast when active fermentation slows) are "cleaned up" within about 24 hours after active fermentation ends and FG is reached. So, waiting 3 days after fermentation ends means this "clean up" process is completely over and done, and the beer is starting to clear.

Longer isn't going to clean up any more- but it may not hurt either. I do notice more yeast flavor and character in beers that spent longer on the yeast cake, and some brewers prefer this flavor. I do not, however.

I see no reason at all to ever keep a beer in the fermenter longer than it takes to complete fermentation, to finish the "clean up" process, and to clear. In a well made beer, that should be by about day 10-14. Going longer may not hurt the beer, but I see no advantage.

 

[Piratwolf]

Those off-flavors like diacetyl (produced by the yeast, but then digested by the yeast when active fermentation slows) are "cleaned up" within about 24 hours after active fermentation ends and FG is reached. So, waiting 3 days after fermentation ends means this "clean up" process is completely over and done, and the beer is starting to clear.

Longer isn't going to clean up any more- but it may not hurt either. I do notice more yeast flavor and character in beers that spent longer on the yeast cake, and some brewers prefer this flavor. I do not, however.

I see no reason at all to ever keep a beer in the fermenter longer than it takes to complete fermentation, to finish the "clean up" process, and to clear. In a well made beer, that should be by about day 10-14. Going longer may not hurt the beer, but I see no advantage.

I couldn't agree more, Yooper! With temp control and healthy yeast, the only reason my beers go past 10-14 days in fermenter is b/c I'm too busy or too slow in emptying a keg.

 

[Skelator]

Zero reason for it to stay in the primary for longer than 3 weeks. That said, I 99% of the time do a 2 week primary for both big and small beers. Now secondary....

 

[m_stodd]

I never knew what people meant when they said "the yeast will clean up the impurities." Other than what Yooper mentioned, it sounds like a pseudo science.

In a few of my 1 gallon cider batches, I had pretty bad H2S from not using nutrient (guessing). It was still there weeks after fermentation ended, so I shook the hell out of the jugs every day until gas stopped coming out. Problem solved, and I doubt yeast would have "cleaned it up".

 

[Yooper]

I never knew what people meant when they said "the yeast will clean up the impurities." Other than what Yooper mentioned, it sounds like a pseudo science.

In a few of my 1 gallon cider batches, I had pretty bad H2S from not using nutrient (guessing). It was still there weeks after fermentation ended, so I shook the hell out of the jugs every day until gas stopped coming out. Problem solved, and I doubt yeast would have "cleaned it up".

You've go two different issues there, though!

One is the point about "cleaning up". The yeast, when still active, will go back and digest other things after fermentable sugars are gone. Some of the things they'll digest (less perferable, that's why they go after the sugars first) are their own waste products like diacetyl. That is a very real thing, and the yeast DO do that. It's done at the tail end of active fermentation though- not weeks later.

The point about the H2S is stressed yeast and that is NOT something the yeast will fix. That's a whole different problem, but is very uncommon in brewing and more common in ciders and wines due to the nutrients in the wort in beer.

 

[jturie]

I'm with Yooper here....I've had H2S fermentations that I've tried to fix by leaving in primary longer--didn't help one bit. When the sugar is gone, the yeasties are pretty much done--they sink to the bottom and hang out. I generally do 14 days because I don't feel like pulling several samples to test gravity. Works for me. If I had to give any advice, experiment with varying primary times and see if you like the result.

 

[SpeedYellow]

I'm with Yooper. My rule is End of Fermentation + 2 days, whether lager or ale. Then it goes into a keg for aging if needed.

 

[45_70sharps]

I'm with all the others here.
I take it off the yeast and anything else in the trub after fermentation is done.
Lots of people say they don't use a secondary, but I do every time.
Let it sit and clarify without all that stuff on the bottom of the bucket.

 

[BrewmeisterSmith]

Great info! I'll take a gravity reading at day 14 or 15 and proceed from there.

 

[DSmith]

I think the original poster could also have a great beer letting it sit in the primary for 3-4 weeks instead of moving it from primary to secondary and waiting the same total time from brewing to packaging. The secondary is more work. I understand transferring the beer to a keg and finishing aging there.

I'm in the 4-8 week primary for ales camp (shorter for wheat beers) and just bought more carboys to keep this rotation going. I bottle everything so eliminating the secondary makes it easier to brew the next batch.

 

[Sippin37]

I'm a big fan of the 2 week primary, 1 week cold crash to drop all the yeast (well atleast visually) out of suspension and really compact the yeast cake on the bottom of the fermenter. Makes it a lot easier to keep the yeast from transferring over to the keg or bottles. This is for normal gravity brews, bigger beers need more time however.

 

[m_stodd]

The point I was attempting to make is that this is the first time I've read what yeast actually cleans up, diacetyl. Typically, it's just been people stating 'yeast clean up stuff'. Not that other people don't know what they're talking about, but I didn't know what they were talking about.

I've learned my lesson on H2S production, using massive amounts of nutrients from now on. One interesting thing I ran across recently is that lakefront brewery uses yeast nutrient in their brewing process, even in beers that aren't high gravity.

 

[gbx]

A lot of people on Jamil's no secondary team are taking it a little too far. Yeast autolysis is not a myth, it just doesn't happen near is as fast as the old school "I must rack after 4 days primary" brewers think it does. Some yeasts definitely can't handle a month on primary regardless of the strength. With a decent pitch, 2 weeks for wy1318 London 3 is getting too long. It will have completely cleaned up any off flavours but also a lot of the malty goodness too. After a month, you will have beef broth.

 

[DSmith]

A lot of people on Jamil's no secondary team are taking it a little too far. Yeast autolysis is not a myth, it just doesn't happen near is as fast as the old school "I must rack after 4 days primary" brewers think it does. Some yeasts definitely can't handle a month on primary regardless of the strength. With a decent pitch, 2 weeks for wy1318 London 3 is getting too long. It will have completely cleaned up any off flavours but also a lot of the malty goodness too. After a month, you will have beef broth.

I've never used that yeast, but can't detect any negative from a longer primary in the way of beef broth using many other yeasts. I wish I could swap you a couple bottles of beer to prove my point instead of words.

 

[gbx]

I've never used that yeast, but can't detect any negative from a longer primary in the way of beef broth using many other yeasts. I wish I could swap you a couple bottles of beer to prove my point instead of words.

I believe you...which I guess is kinda my point too: yeasts are different. London 3 is the only yeast I've tasted that went beefy. 1968 london esb has never gone "beefy" on me but it drys out completely and loses all its "english" flavours. With the english yeasts, i think you are best to taste it when it looks like it is done and keg as soon as you are no longer tasting diacetyl or acetadhyde. US05, Nottingham I have left for over a month, I've left bohemian lager in the primary for almost 2 month all with no bad effects.

 

[DSmith]

I believe you...which I guess is kinda my point too: yeasts are different. London 3 is the only yeast I've tasted that went beefy. 1968 london esb has never gone "beefy" on me but it drys out completely and loses all its "english" flavours. With the english yeasts, i think you are best to taste it when it looks like it is done and keg as soon as you are no longer tasting diacetyl or acetadhyde. US05, Nottingham I have left for over a month, I've left bohemian lager in the primary for almost 2 month all with no bad effects.

A Boddington's clone is on my list to do with WY1318. I'd like that to be a quick ale and will take your advice.

Many of my long primaries have been with WY1056 fermented close to 60F and have been absolutely clean. I just gave one to a coworker who thought it was a lager.

 

[gbx]

A Boddington's clone is on my list to do with WY1318. I'd like that to be a quick ale and will take your advice.

Many of my long primaries have been with WY1056 fermented close to 60F and have been absolutely clean. I just gave one to a coworker who thought it was a lager.

here is an awesome thread about british yeasts https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/b...on-temps-profiles-cybi-other-thoughts-221817/

The other piece of wy1318 advice is just a warning about the krausen. -it can get huge and sometimes doesn't fall, almost becoming a floating yeast cake. don't hesitate to bust through it with a wine thief or rake out from underneath it. If you ferment in a bucket its a great yeast to top crop and repitches well.

 

[Wirk]

Guys, I brewed a hoppy foreign stout 2 weeks ago, 1.062 OG 1.017 FG, 66 IBU.

What do you think, how longer should I keep it in the primary and how long in bottle before I drink it?

 

[Yooper]

Guys, I brewed a hoppy foreign stout 2 weeks ago, 1.062 OG 1.017 FG, 66 IBU.

What do you think, how longer should I keep it in the primary and how long in bottle before I drink it?

If it's been at FG at least three days, you can bottle it whenever you'd like.

I'd let it carb up for 3 weeks or so, and then try one every few days or so until it tastes like it's at its peak. It'll probably take a couple of weeks for the flavors to meld and come together, depending on how roasty and hoppy it is. My oatmeal stout is usually great by about 5 weeks after brewday. It's not hoppy, though, so it really depends on the flavor components and how they come together.

 

[zeg]

I think the idea behind a month-long primary probably comes from the fact that it doesn't hurt anything (at least in most cases), and if the fermentation went slowly for some reason, it provides a little insurance. You can run things faster if you're being careful and checking gravities, but especially for new brewers, leaving it a little too long is probably preferable to racking / bottling too soon.

 

[45_70sharps]

Since there are possible bad effects of leaving it on the yeast, and since there isn't a downside to racking it into a secondary, I just prefer to put it into the secondary.
I also primary in buckets and do the secondary in a carboy, so by racking it into the carboy I can visually check the clarity.
It's not like it's a bunch of extra work.

 

[Brewday365]

I recently experimented with this a little. I ran a split batch of an Edmund Fitzgerald clone with almost identical volumes, pitching rates, temperatures, etc... Both of them hit high krausen in 48 hours and slowed to a near stop of airlock activity in 5 days. At that point, I let one keg sit for two days before crash cooling and kegging. The second keg sat for an additional 10 days before a cold crash of three days and kegging. While the two will both improve with a few weeks to mellow, the tastes are nearly identical. A triangle test could not pick them apart.
The yeast both essentially had time to contribute their part of the flavor and clean up diacetyl, etc... I think the longer primary times for bigger beers could be important, but it might simply be a safeguard to trying beer that hasn't had time to just sit and mellow. However, I don't feel that the yeast is necessary for "mellowing."

 

[Yooper]

Since there are possible bad effects of leaving it on the yeast, and since there isn't a downside to racking it into a secondary, I just prefer to put it into the secondary.
I also primary in buckets and do the secondary in a carboy, so by racking it into the carboy I can visually check the clarity.
It's not like it's a bunch of extra work.

I don't really think there are "possible bad effects" from a long-ish primary, but I think there are more possible bad effects from racking to secondary actually.

Racking means more chance of oxidation, and chance of infection, and I wouldn't rack most beers to a clearing vessel. A simple primary is fine.

 

[StoutMeister]

what ever happend to the 1-2-3 method??

1 week primary 2 weeks secondary 3 weeks bottle ??
cool and enjoy

 

[45_70sharps]

what ever happend to the 1-2-3 method??

1 week primary 2 weeks secondary 3 weeks bottle ??
cool and enjoy

So now I need to bottle my beer!