Age limit to brew??

[GilaMinumBeer]

I think, legally, there is nothing to say that a minor can't do it. Right up to the point that it's been in the bucket for 7 days with yeast.

Up to the point of fermentation, you have essentially made Malt Goya. And there is nothing illeagal about that regardless of age.

 

[TexLaw]

A few years ago, my friend's 16-year-old son asked when he could drink a beer. My friend replied "you can drink all the beer you brew." He did not mean it as a condition to allow the son to get hammered, or anything like that. Rather, it was a challenge to learn responsibility.

If the boy was going to have a beer, he had to learn about beer and brewing. He was going to have to learn how to appreciate not only the beer, but the craft that goes into it. Appreciation is the first step in learning responsibility. So far, the kid has brewed a little and drank a little. He's doing quite well.

I think it also helped that my friend followed up with something like "if I ever see you remotely drunk before you're 21, unless I got you that way, I'll break your legs. If I ever hear that you drove a car after drinking, that you got into a car with someone under 21 who had been drinking, or that you got into a car with anyone drunk, you better just keep on going."


TL

 

[TexLaw]

I think, legally, there is nothing to say that a minor can't do it. Right up to the point that it's been in the bucket for 7 days with yeast.

That is not true. Every state definition I am aware of essentially calls the stuff "beer" once the yeast is pitched and considers pitching yeast to be making alcohol. That is why everyone is talking about how it should be no problem for a minor to do everything but pitch the yeast.


TL

 

[Desert_Sky]

my 4 and 2 year olds enjoy IIPAs and RISs with dinner with mom and dad

 

[the_bird]

My daughter's been involved with "helping" me brew pretty much since day 1. She takes trips to the "beer store" with me. She helped me make a batch of apfelwein. She helps me bottle, I'll fill and cap, she'll put them in the boxes. Last weekend, I asked her on Saturday night what she wanted to do the next day, she said "let's make beer!" (and I hadn't said anything to her about brewing, in fact I didn't have time to brew).

The original plan was to make sure she was prepared in case she found herself at a party with a strange boy offering her a vanilla cream ale, but the general idea is just to make sure that she understands what beer is, how it should be consumed, how it should be respected. I also want to take away that "it's FORBIDDEN!" aspect to it; beer is beer, it's no big deal, getting sloshed at a party isn't really rebelling. I've stated that my goal is when she finds herself inevitably at a party at some senior's house, whose parents are out of town, and someone offers her a Bud Light - she replies "Don't you have a Three Philisophers or something else GOOD?"

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

That is not true. Every state definition I am aware of essentially calls the stuff "beer" once the yeast is pitched and considers pitching yeast to be making alcohol. That is why everyone is talking about how it should be no problem for a minor to do everything but pitch the yeast.


TL

That is what I was saying essentially but being more specific as to the presence of alcohol.

By your definition are you inferring that beer is made once the yeast is pitched?

So then lets say the wort is made but no yeast is pitched. True at this point you have Malta Goya but what if you just leave the lid off? It will ferment.

My point is, it ain't beer til' there is alcohol. Regardless of who or how the yeast was added.

 

[Desert_Sky]

The original plan was to make sure she was prepared in case she found herself at a party with a strange boy offering her a vanilla cream ale, but the general idea is just to make sure that she understands what beer is, how it should be consumed, how it should be respected. I also want to take away that "it's FORBIDDEN!" aspect to it; beer is beer, it's no big deal, getting sloshed at a party isn't really rebelling. I've stated that my goal is when she finds herself inevitably at a party at some senior's house, whose parents are out of town, and someone offers her a Bud Light - she replies "Don't you have a Three Philisophers or something else GOOD?"

which is why you're the man. I feel the same way.

 

[z987k]

Ummmm, z987k, that's not my quote. I'm not the one who needs the nanny state to tell me when drinking is acceptable...
I believe you meant to cite beerthirty.

Hmm, that's interesting, I never changed it, but it's beerthirty I was quoting.

 

[tdavisii]

no offense intended before I offend you. but that sounds pretty ummmm.... stupid to me. what type of parent would allow their minor child to drink? As a child their brains and bodies are still developing and it doesn't seem wise to allow their primary role model to condone the under age consumption of a substance that reduces the ability to reason and has been proven to cause medical issues even in fully matured human beings(and lab rats). If it was actually possible to limit their consumption and amount consumed to when they were with their parents on special occasions, like maybe a (1)beer after the triptaphan(spellcheck) in the turkey was taking affect, then I might see your reasoning. They pass out and therefore think drinking aint all that much fun. Kids should learn for themselves(not through the help of role models) after they have reached the age that society has deemed acceptable, whether or not they want to drink socially. Otherwise we will have many future generations of self righteous drunks like me(and probably you) to blame all of society's problems on. I would apologize for that tirade but I have strong feelings on underage drinking due to the death of a family member at the hands of an underage drunk.

So it begins

 

[NWernBrewer]

+1 - responsibility and education. My 9yo helps me brew - we go to beer festivals and we talk. Seeing your daughter standing in front of a bushel of hops - reaching in and grabbing some rubbing her hands and smelling them... makes me *chokes up* so proud.

Some kids will just have to learn from their mistakes - they need extra encouragement (or a good kick in the @ss.) Many others will learn responsibility, they know that it is not just a party drug for when the authorities are not looking. They will not drink themselves into a AP coma. They will not end up in a park choking on vomit because they know that Daddy is going to come down all zero tolerance on them.

 

[beerthirty]

If it was actually possible to limit their consumption and amount consumed to when they were with their parents on special occasions, like maybe a (1)beer after the triptaphan(spellcheck) in the turkey was taking affect, then I might see your reasoning.

Maybe I should have underlined if and limit in the above statement. or maybe I wasn't entirely clear in my post. Most kids get there first taste from Mom or Dad.
Now that they have tried it, and are still to young to be responsible. The next step is usually unsupervised consumption generally from the parental stash. If the child has been taught that underage consumption is not allowed and the reasons why(similar to the parental drug talks) than the chance of any real problems such as alcohol poisoning or drunk driving are diminished. Yes it will still happen, some kids will not be deterred and will binge. It sounds like all of you are responsible parents and I commend you for that. But the simple fact is not all parents are. They give their kids alcohol without teaching them the dangers. The developing brain of young children is a delicate instrument and should be given every chance to mature without damage. Some have stated "my 16 yo is allowed a glass of wine on special occasions." I don't have a problem with that at all. You have set the limit and by that age although most still lack responsibility, you are being the responsible one. Society has set age limits due to the fact that most young are not responsible enough to make limit decisions. Granted some will never be responsible enough, particularly when the sense of reasoning is the first impairment that alcohol makes.

Thank you for your condolences to my loss. You would have lost that $100 wager. The incident involved a 17 yo who had been at a family outing, and decided he needed a pack of smokes. Not some kid who was parting with his school buddies. He was released from prison(with the permanent loss of a drivers license) after a much too short of a sentence and has since returned after being convicted of another DUI. Thank God he didn't kill again.

It wasn't my intention to open up a huge debate, just to state a few obvious problems with underage drinking.

 

[the_bird]

It's inevitable that The Bean is going to drink. It's inevitable that every one of our kids is going to drink, whether we espouse a zero-tolerance policy or not. It's just going to happen, to pretend otherwise, I hope you've got enough q-tips to clean the sand out of your ears.

She's probably going to end up in a bad situation some time. She'll be out with her friends, and someone will bring along a bottle or two. Maybe she'll make some bad decisions - despite all that we may teach her, that's a part of learning.

What I cannot let happen - when she's been drinking, and all of her friends are drunk - maybe the driver is wasted, or maybe someone has had WAY too much to drink and might have poisoned themselves; what I cannot allow is to have my daughter be afraid to get on her phone and say "Daddy, I need help. Can you come pick me up?"

 

[wihophead]

It's inevitable that The Bean is going to drink. It's inevitable that every one of our kids is going to drink, whether we espouse a zero-tolerance policy or not. It's just going to happen, to pretend otherwise, I hope you've got enough q-tips to clean the sand out of your ears.

She's probably going to end up in a bad situation some time. She'll be out with her friends, and someone will bring along a bottle or two. Maybe she'll make some bad decisions - despite all that we may teach her, that's a part of learning.

What I cannot let happen - when she's been drinking, and all of her friends are drunk - maybe the driver is wasted, or maybe someone has had WAY too much to drink and might have poisoned themselves; what I cannot allow is to have my daughter be afraid to get on her phone and say "Daddy, I need help. Can you come pick me up?"

I think that says it all....

 

[jpsloan]

There are so many great lessons to learn from brewing... from the simple chemistry behind fermentation, to the discipline in cleaning and sanitizing, to the creativity in recipe and label generation... and the very basic fundamentals of watching something "grow" into an enjoyable craft. Not to mention the amount of time that can be spent together on a brew day.

I'd hate to think there would be so much there for a kid and not involve him.

 

[beerthirty]

What I cannot let happen - when she's been drinking, and all of her friends are drunk - maybe the driver is wasted, or maybe someone has had WAY too much to drink and might have poisoned themselves; what I cannot allow is to have my daughter be afraid to get on her phone and say "Daddy, I need help. Can you come pick me up?"[/QUOTE]

I agree completely. But will you allow her to drink with her friends at 13 or do you tell her that is something she can do when she is older(more mature and capable of making the responsible decision to call Daddy). Ultimately its the parents that need to responsible to teach the kids. Unfortunately its the kids or others that will pay the price for the lack of responsibility by parents. I am not calling you irresponsible in any way. But believe that kids with drinking problems are the result of irresponsible parents. the system had to take steps to protect the kids from themselves. I don't like the government in my life anymore than the next responsible Dad, but society demands that we all play by the same rules.

 

[the_bird]

Why are you talking about her drinking at age 13? There's a huge difference between 13 and 16/17/18 (or even 20, since you've advocated zero tolerance until the legal drinking age). Her friends aren't getting a drop at my house, either; that's just an invitation for her to get the wrong type of friends, and I'm not taking on THAT liability, not on your life!

 

[ChuckMoney]

I am currently 24. Just graduated from college in December. Therefore by most people's calendars, I was in school for 5.5 years, and had a great time, most of which involved alcohol. Personally, I agree with the person that said the heaviest binge drinkers in college were the ones whose parents had a zero tolerance policy on underage drinking. (frankly I'm too lazy to go back and find who said it and quote them) My parents and I had a very good relationship, once I was of age to fully comprehend the consequenses of my actions I was allowed to have a drink or two. And as long as I consumed alcohol in a responsible fashion there was no problem with it. I've never had alcohol poisoning, I've never driven drunk, I've never blacked out, so on and so forth. I've seen it happen though, especially from the kids whose parents were completely against underaged drinking.

 

[uglygoat]

What I cannot let happen - when she's been drinking, and all of her friends are drunk - maybe the driver is wasted, or maybe someone has had WAY too much to drink and might have poisoned themselves; what I cannot allow is to have my daughter be afraid to get on her phone and say "Daddy, I need help. Can you come pick me up?"

amen!

that's how i was raised. this is beer, this is wine, this is what it will do to you. you are reasonably intelligent, if you need help call us.

 

[beerthirty]

the_bird What I advocate is responsible parenting. If the child is taught right from wrong there is little chance of abuse(perhaps use but not abuse). and since society has proven the ratio of responsible parents to children is quite low, then it became government's job to curtail abuse. example; If it had been your family outing and your child(at the age of 17)had several beers in her, would you have given her permission to get behind the wheel for a run to the store? no? well those are the types of parents are in the minority. If most parents were responsible enough to teach their kids, then there would have been no reason to make a drinking age law. remember laws like that were designed to protect people from acts of irresponsibility and lack of reasoning. I am glad that you think there is a big difference between 13 or 15,16,17. there is also a big difference between 18 and 21. At 18 you are an adult but still usually not responsible enough to make the correct decision. The drinking age of 21 was decided upon because by that time you should have learned to be responsible for yourself. the drinking ages of some states have in the past been18 or 19(AZ was 19) but have been changed to 21 because the kids have proven their inability to use reason and responsibility when drinking. there will always be kids that have those abilities even before the age of 21. but few of them would have those qualities without an involved, responsible parent.

 

[Rick_R]

beerthirty: What I advocate is responsible parenting.

That's a different statement than your response to a quoted passage where someone mentioned it was legal for parents to give drinks in their own home to their minor children: "no offense intended before I offend you. but that sounds pretty ummmm.... stupid to me. what type of parent would allow their minor child to drink?"

What caused me -- and, I suspect, others -- to respond was the suggestion that allowing your kids under or eighteen to drink is irresponsible parenting ("stupid" . . . "what type of parent"). I don't know if you are backing off of that original premise or not, but discussing a legal age limit for them to be out drinking on their own is a somewhat different discussion.

Rick

 

[olllllo]

I think we're done telling other members how to raise their kids and/or we never meant to do that, right?

 

[beerthirty]

olllllo, no I never meant for it to come across as trying to tell anyone how to raise there kids.
Rick R, I see how you and others had understood what I said. I should have stated it differently seeing as children cover such a wide age group.
to all, it was not my intention to offend in any way, just to point that most children don't have the reasoning ability that usually comes with age to make decisions concerning consumption. I will let it end there.

 

[shafferpilot]

I thought this thread was supposed to be about BREWING beer with your children and relating THAT to the age of those children...... Can we try to get back on topic?

 

[fat x nub]

I thought this thread was supposed to be about BREWING beer with your children and relating THAT to the age of those children...... Can we try to get back on topic?

Thank You...even though it was cool listening to everybody's parenting skills.

 

[GunnerMan]

I just don't understand how "21" is THE responsible age. There are 15 year olds that are more responsible than a 40 year old. Depends how they grew up and how they were raised, I think if a parent deams their child responsible enough to drink at whatever age then so be it let em drink...

Anyways ontopic I could not find any laws (relating to when you actually "make" beer) in New Mexico, I think all the law states is that it is illegal to make it. So I suppose in court you could argue the beer is not "made" untill it is in the bottle and carbonated...

 

[springer]

All my children have been exposed to beer and wine before they were 21. I was given wine/beer at a very early age, old country Italian and German immigrant grandparents.

'The National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 required all states to raise their minimum purchase and public possession of alcohol age to 21. States that did not comply faced a reduction in highway funds under the Federal Highway Aid Act.... It does not prohibit persons under 21 (also called youth or minors) from drinking. The term "public possession" is strictly defined and does not apply to possession for the following:

An established religious purpose, when accompanied by a parent, spouse or legal guardian age 21 or older
Medical purposes when prescribed or administered by a licensed physician, pharmacist, dentist, nurse, hospital or medical institution
In private clubs or establishments
In the course of lawful employment by a duly licensed manufacturer, wholesaler or retailer.”
http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/LegalDrinkingAge.html

This is an act not a law. The states were strong-armed to comply just like helmet laws with the loss of federal monies. At any given time like spring break for instance kids can and do fly to the Caribbean, Mexico and drink all they want at 18. I was in Italy and their drinking age is 16 we didnt see 1 in a bar or restaurant drinking. Its just like guns if the child is taught how to use it when to use it and only around you there is no forbidden fruit temptation to get at it. All my kids were taught proper use of firearms.

 

[springer]

to the OP. If the child shows interest in brewing then I dont see any type of minimum age.

 

[Glibbidy]

But none the less a god way to get young kids to appreciate alcohol and its wonders before they get to the "Lets get drunk and stupid" age.

Learning to brew at an early age could very well help them bypass that stage all together. It may foster the respect that beer demands.
With that said my four and five year old pitch in and help me all the time.

 

[mew]

I have to admit that I began brewing before I was 21 to find a source for cheap booze. I was quickly overtaken by the hobby and before I knew it, I was on a quest toward great-tasting beer before I even knew what good beer tasted like. The hobby transformed my attitude toward alcohol. I no longer think of it as a means to get drunk, but as the embodiment of art. While my friends got smashed every Friday night, I'd be pouring over brewing documents in order to perfect my craft. By the time I turned 21, I was well passed the phase of incessant drunkenness and I owe that to homebrewing. I am still only 21 and will always have a lot more to learn.

Some people wouldn't react to homebrewing the way I did. Ethically, I think the parent should make an assessment of whether their child is the type of person who would be affected positively by homebrewing. In most cases, the answer is yes, but the parent must decide.

 

[Will b]

I'm a little on the fence on this one. I'm looking at having kids in the near future and have wondered myself what kind of example I would be if beer was seen as such an important part of my life. I am all for teaching respect and responsibility whether it be alcohol, drugs, guns, sex, etc. but life is about balance and if a child sees beer as being such an integral aspect of their fathers life I'm not so sure if that's the best example to set.