AG - equipment question - propane

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Grinder12000

Grinder12000

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In order to get into AG I realize I have to get more equipment and one piece is a home canning-type crab/turkey propane burner.

My worry is that this will not really help if I'm in the garage at 20 below zero - water seems to not want to boil when it's FREAKING COLD.

So - do you guys use propane in basements?? Or just not make AG in the winter with full batches?
 
I do AG Full boil in the winter, no probbo bobbo. However - if you WI guys get another Record-Breaking winter like you did in 07, I could see why you might want to brew indoors. :p

FlyGuy manages to brew outdoors even in them brutal Canuck winters. Just need to make you a heat shield for your burner/kettle. Big ol piece of metal flashing will do wonders.

Brewing in a basement is a risky and dangerous idea. BUT. If done smartly and safely, it can be done. It's not fundamentally that different than using a natural gas stove indoors - the big differences are Amount of BTUs produced/gas used/oxygen burned, and Length of Time In Use.

If you choose to go it indoors.... CARBON MONOXIDE DETECTOR. A MUST. DO NOT SKIP. There's a sticky in the Equip forum that explains why.
 
I find the issue is not boiling - a turkey fryer will boil wort no problem in sub zero temps. The problem is running my chiller - can't use the outside hose! In the past, I have used a wooden dolly to shuttle the boil kettle in to the kitchen after the boil to use the kitchen sink for the chiller, but it's a PITA.
 
I've seen some guys videos on Youtube (but I can't recall who...it might even be our own Bobby M) who does propane in his basement, but has rigged up a door with some pretty serious fans built in to draw the carbon monoxide upstairs and I think even has a huge ceiling vent/fan to pull it right outside.

IIRC it was a pretty awesome setup...
 
WHEW - I'm glad to hear basement is not a viable option as I can see all sorts of conversions with the wife trying to convince her. LOL.

I see chilling is the real problem.
 
Revvy said:
I've seen some guys videos on Youtube (but I can't recall who...it might even be our own Bobby M) who does propane in his basement, but has rigged up a door with some pretty serious fans built in to draw the carbon monoxide upstairs and I think even has a huge ceiling vent/fan to pull it right outside.

IIRC it was a pretty awesome setup...
Click to expand...

The Man...The Myth Mr. Beer in the Basement....Ladies and Gentlemen....BierMuncher!

Oh...and me too in about 3 weeks when SWMBO kicks my sorry ass out of the kitchen.
 
BigKahuna said:
The Man...The Myth Mr. Beer in the Basement....Ladies and Gentlemen....BierMuncher!

Oh...and me too in about 3 weeks when SWMBO kicks my sorry ass out of the kitchen.
Click to expand...

It's this guy...Chris Knight.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=ABEA964DBE274064&page=1]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

In one of the videos he shows is ventilation setup...He actually was on here for awhile...I don't know if he's still around. His basement is sweet!
 
I chill with my immersion chiller outside in Manitoba winters. You keep the hose inside until you're ready to use it. Hook it up to the chiller and let fly immediately. The water running through it will keep it from freezing. That being said, there are other issues.

You can't see the wort in your boiling pot when it gets too cold out. The steam coming off the surface of the kettle is so dense you can't see through it. It's hard to tell when you actually have a boil. Another issue is cleaning. The metal pot will get so cold that you can't put a damp cloth to it. It sticks immediately. If you use lots of water to keep it from sticking to the metal, you're left with a cloth frozen in a layer of water and stuck to the pot. Think of what this does to your hands. You're trying to clean frozen pieces of metal and plastic by dipping your hands in water. It's very unpleasant.

Now you're mashing in a cooler. Keep the cooler inside until you're ready and make sure you do a pre-heat. If you don't, you'll lose way too much temp over the hour. Oh, and make sure you dump your cooler immediately after mashing. A frozen hunk of spent grain is a pain to get out.

Getting the pot to boil is the least of your concerns.
 
It gets pretty damn cold here in PA, but nothing like Canada or WI- that's for sure! Brewing outside is do-able during the winter months, but just takes a little extra attention to the details. Like not freezing the water in your hose. I usually disconnect my hose after the season is over, so I never have any freezing in the hose or in the pipes- but I can run it when necessary. I mash inside so I don't lose too much temp during the hour.

I have the space and the means to ventilate to use propane in the basement, but the thought still makes me nervous- the risks are just too great in my opinion. Like I said earlier, I brew in the garage and I'm satisfied with that arrangement. A CO monitor is absolutely crucial if you're going to try it.
 
I think the youtuber you're thinking of is Joepolvino...

Your garage might be 20 below but not after you run that burner for 30 minutes. It should reach a nice toaty 50F or so even with the doors open enough for fresh air. The key is making sure your burner runs clean. No orange sooty flames inside anywhere.
 
Bobby_M said:
I think the youtuber you're thinking of is Joepolvino...

Your garage might be 20 below but not after you run that burner for 30 minutes. It should reach a nice toaty 50F or so even with the doors open enough for fresh air. The key is making sure your burner runs clean. No orange sooty flames inside anywhere.
Click to expand...

Youdaman Bobby..You're right... He shows his door fan setup @ 3:59 he also has a carbon monoxide sensor as well.

[youtube]Zk6d1dy9jOc[/youtube]

IIRC now, Chris Knight has a huge household ceiling fan that he fires up in one of his videos....but this is what I was thinking of.
 
flyangler18 said:
It gets pretty damn cold here in PA, but nothing like Canada or WI- that's for sure! Brewing outside is do-able during the winter months, but just takes a little extra attention to the details. Like not freezing the water in your hose. I usually disconnect my hose after the season is over, so I never have any freezing in the hose or in the pipes- but I can run it when necessary. I mash inside so I don't lose too much temp during the hour.

I have the space and the means to ventilate to use propane in the basement, but the thought still makes me nervous- the risks are just too great in my opinion. Like I said earlier, I brew in the garage and I'm satisfied with that arrangement. A CO monitor is absolutely crucial if you're going to try it.
Click to expand...
Should I bring my garden hose indoors to eliminate the possibility of water freezing in the hose?
 
njnear76 said:
Should I bring my garden hose indoors to eliminate the possibility of water freezing in the hose?
Click to expand...

Um.... Do you mean after brewing, or all the time?

Around here at least, yes, it is pretty regular practice to disconnect hoses, store them indoors, and close the inline valve leading up to the outdoor sillcock/faucet. The water freezes inside the hose, and creates cracks/bursts.
 
I just love this quote from the linked thread:

Soulive said:
How cold is too cold to brew? I did my first AG in 15F with a 3F wind chill. Just wear the proper clothes and layer them. I'd do that way before killing braincells with CO. That's what the beers for!
Click to expand...

lol. Anyway if you do try it, be sure to use a CO detector.

It was windy as hell as Ike blew by (too far away for rain but gusts to 50) when I brewed the 9-9-9 so I had the brew kettle way back in the garage so the flame wouldn't blow out, even with the door open, wind outside and a fan going I was still nervous I was going to get loopy.
 
Hey Grinder- a fellow Cheesehead here. I've been brewing outdoors for years now. Winter, summer, rain or shine. And somehow I always seem to pick the coldest days to brew! A turkey burner will get it going no problem. I keep my chiller hose inside in the winter, too, works fine. You just have to be careful not to turn your driveway into an ice skating rink!
 
Revvy said:
I've seen some guys videos on Youtube (but I can't recall who...it might even be our own Bobby M) who does propane in his basement, but has rigged up a door with some pretty serious fans built in to draw the carbon monoxide upstairs and I think even has a huge ceiling vent/fan to pull it right outside.

IIRC it was a pretty awesome setup...
Click to expand...

i saw that two..i just looked for the link but could not find it. That was the first thing that came to mind. Just make sure you have a carbon monoxide detector on hand and PLENTY or ventilation.
 
If you pull inside air out of your basement while brewing you will be wasting a lot of energy. It will pull air from upstairs unless you open another basement window or door. Why not get a small wood burning firepit/stove/chimenea. Put it near the garage entrance. Should keep you toasty.
 
Here it is, pretty sweet
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRsoCaAR1kw&feature=related]YouTube - All Grain Home Brewing (3 of 8)[/ame]
 
along with the chiller/hose idea, replacing it with a pond pump in a bucket... you could pour a couple buckets of water, and bring them outside. Move the pump from one to the next as they get too warm/hot. The outdoor weather should make sure those buckets are very cold when you start your pump for chilling. Directing the return back to the bucket will keep you from making an ice-slick down the driveway or yard.

With practice you'd know how many buckets to bring out and when.

my wife is moving to PA, and with any luck our house will sell and I'll follow her as soon as possible, moving my brewery to the snowy north!
 
Grinder12000 said:
In order to get into AG I realize I have to get more equipment and one piece is a home canning-type crab/turkey propane burner.

My worry is that this will not really help if I'm in the garage at 20 below zero - water seems to not want to boil when it's FREAKING COLD.

So - do you guys use propane in basements?? Or just not make AG in the winter with full batches?
Click to expand...


DO NOT use propane indoors! The tanks have a pressure release valve that can open and fill your basement with propane.... then BOOM!

I built an All-Grain half barrel gravity system. I use natural gas and brew year round. I have used this system for 12 years. It is very simple but yields excellent results! I live in Watertown so if you would like some help or would like to see what I have shoot me an E-mail @ [email protected]
 
Um. Elaborate, please? What, do you mean have we gotten high off it? Disfigured by it? I'm not sure what you're going for.
 
Somebody on here built a nice heat shield with some Al flashing to help keep the wind off the pot while brewing. If I remember correctly it even had a tent top to let the steam out but still reduce the heat lost. That should greatly improve boil efficiency in cold weather.
Our winter temps seldom drop below 10F so boiling just inside an open garage door is sufficient, though I may build a shield just to improve the heat transfer.

Craig
 
I mean, has anybody had to go to the hospital because of CO inhalation or the like. I've heard conflicting accounts as to the dangers of indoor propane, and I'm wondering if some of that comes from liability issues. I figured first hand accounts could be a credible method of gaging danger.
 
jpowers1 said:
I mean, has anybody had to go to the hospital because of CO inhalation or the like. I've heard conflicting accounts as to the dangers of indoor propane, and I'm wondering if some of that comes from liability issues. I figured first hand accounts could be a credible method of gaging danger.
Click to expand...

It's hard to get first hand accounts because most folks go to the morgue not the hospital. Read the newspaper after a big storm and you'll usually read a story about someone trying to cook/heat using their outdoor cooker indoors. I don't doubt it can be done since we have folks here that do it BUT it is very dangerous and without a kick ass exhaust system you and your family can be dead very quickly. This is not an urban myth!
 
jpowers1 said:
I mean, has anybody had to go to the hospital because of CO inhalation or the like. I've heard conflicting accounts as to the dangers of indoor propane, and I'm wondering if some of that comes from liability issues. I figured first hand accounts could be a credible method of gaging danger.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying your question, I'm sorry I didn't get what you meant the first time.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/carbon-monoxide-hazards-real-52676/

This thread is pretty much all the warning *I* need - and that's not even in a basement, that's in a garage, like most brewers set up!

Using propane indoors is not inherently unsafe - after all many rural houses run entirely on propane and not on natural gas. It's just in how you maintain your equipment, how you ventilate your rooms, and what checks you have in place to make sure that you don't have a problem without knowing it.

It comes down to safety devices, whether that's an air exhaust fan, or a CO monitor, you just gotta be smart if you're working indoors.
 
Thanks for your input. I'm stepping up to a burner, and I really don't want to brew outside in my nasty neighborhood, but I don't want to die either...so I'm thinking fans by the door should be ok.
 
I've got detectors in various parts of the house, gonna need another one in my future brewing area (very excited)
 

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