AG brew day in less than 3 hours... possible?

[OLDBREW]

the problem with assistant brewers is you tend to sample a few brews here and there then the next thing you know your into a 6 hour session with a pie with the works or hot wings for a nibbler

 

[CidahMastah]

the problem with assistant brewers is you tend to sample a few brews here and there then the next thing you know your into a 6 hour session with a pie with the works or hot wings for a nibbler

Haha too true 99.9% of the time.

Fortunately this guy used to work in the restaurant game with me back in the day. Basically the art of drunken multitasking at its finest.

That said, we usually don't crack a brew until our first brew is boiling and the second mash is snuggled up with reflectix.

 

[waveslider44]

let the kids help clean. They won't be anywhere near your brew session next time.

 

[Mikethepoolguy]

I didn't mean to come off as a jerk last night, that was the homebrew talking. I just felt the answer was obvious, do an extract batch. I am an AG brewer but will still do an extract rather than not brew at all when time is short. I just feel that cutting corners will limit the types of beers that you can brew well. A lot of brewers are AG snobs that will never go back. Oops, I did it again.

 

[Airborneguy]

No hard feelings

I've done a few extract batches since I went AG, but at this point, I don't think I will again. The only reason for that is I mostly brew my own recipes, and since I never learned how to make my own recipes using extract (and I mean creating flavor profiles using extract), I don't see myself doing it again.

 

[Parkinson1963]

Just finished my last brew in 3 hours flat.

Procedure:
1) set up equipment
2) begin heating water
3) weigh crush grain
4) DO BIAB (60 min mash)
5) heat, mash out
6) heat to boil during draining
7) boil 60 min
8) drain into 6 gal jerry can
9) put on stopper,
10) walk away, done.

Next day pour cooled wort into fermentor, add yeast. (total time 1/2 hour)

Easy peasy

 

[OLDBREW]

Just finished my last brew in 3 hours flat.

Procedure:
1) set up equipment
2) begin heating water
3) weigh crush grain
4) DO BIAB (60 min mash)
5) heat, mash out
6) heat to boil during draining
7) boil 60 min
8) drain into 6 gal jerry can
9) put on stopper,
10) walk away, done.

Next day pour cooled wort into fermentor, add yeast. (total time 1/2 hour)

Easy peasy

so without chilling figured in... it took you 3.5 hours. Airbourne Guy does that same day with chilling. That is definitely flying.

I did a brew today with a 90 minute boil. Close to 5 hours.
Hot Day and didn't chill as quick as I was hoping for. Then I oxigenated the wort real well for this Belgian Tripel

 

[Airborneguy]

Chilling is the one "X" factor for me. From about May to October, there's no way I'm making 3.5 hours. In the winter, I can chill to pitching temp in about 15 min, sometimes even less. I used snow during one of those huge storms earlier this year and was at pitching in just under 10 minutes.

I think what helps me is my ability to clean in the unused shower. Once I put the removable shower head in there, I cut a ton of time off my day. Besides the fact that cleanign is done pretty much in place, its also much easier and quicker because I have a ton of room as opposed to using a sink.

 

[nyer]

My well water comes out at 55-58 in the summer. I started whirlpooling with a pump and I use an immersion chiller and it cools really fast.

 

[elproducto]

Sometimes when I want to brew in the evening, and don't want to be up real late, I have my grains crushed, and hops measured. I do my regular, mash/boil/chill, but I chill with an immersion chiller and in the summer it's hard to get it down to pitching temp quickly, so I get it down to about 80 degrees, and then rack into my fermenter. I stick the fermenter (bucket) in the basement, and pitch my yeast in the morning. Sort of modified no-chill I guess.

I've even heard Tasty and Jamil talk about this method with lagers.

 

[OLDBREW]

Sometimes when I want to brew in the evening, and don't want to be up real late, I have my grains crushed, and hops measured. I do my regular, mash/boil/chill, but I chill with an immersion chiller and in the summer it's hard to get it down to pitching temp quickly, so I get it down to about 80 degrees, and then rack into my fermenter. I stick the fermenter (bucket) in the basement, and pitch my yeast in the morning. Sort of modified no-chill I guess.

I've even heard Tasty and Jamil talk about this method with lagers.

the problem with lager type beers is you want to get good cold break separation. In order to do this, you need to quickly get your wort temps to at least under 50*F.
I think Jamil uses a pump and whirlpools through a HLT herms coil which he can add ice water to it when his immersion chiller in the boiler starts to fizzle out.
Anyone running a herms system with the coil in the HLT can recirculate the wort from the boiler through an ice bath in the HLT, then back into the boiler. Uses a lot of ice but drops the wort temp down very quickly.

 

[joeldp144]

I have never beat 4.5 hours if including cleanup and cooling. But, I have never experimented with shorter mash and sparge times. I sort of stick to the basic rules on those things.

 

[LVBen]

I just beat 3 hours!!!

I grabbed my pot and started filling it with water at 8:10 last night.

I made a 5 gallon batch of pale ale with 8.5 lbs of grain.
30 minutes to heat up my strike water.
I did a 45 minute mash w/ 7 gallons of water.
No sparge. No mashout.
60 minute boil.
Poured the wort into my bucket and stuck it in the garage.
And then I cleaned up.

I looked at the clock as soon as I was done cleaning up and it was 11:09.

It actually took me about 30 minutes to heat up the 7 gallons of water to strike temperatures, but I was somewhat distracted and didn't even have a recipe fully planned out yet, so I had my burner on a low setting while I created the recipe, did some household chores, and gathered ingredients. I probably could've heated up the water in 15 minutes if I knew what the recipe was in advance and didn't have chores to do. So, I think even 2:45 is doable under slightly different circumstances.

My brewhouse efficiency was 83%, and all of my hops were right on schedule.

I just pitched the 4-day old starter about an hour ago. I sprayed my hydrometer with iodophor and waited 15 minutes then popped open the lid, measured the gravity, and pitched the yeast.

At every step, I was planning the next step in advance, so that there were no delays.

Obviously, I haven't actually drank the beer yet, but I'm quite certain that it will be damn good!

:rockin::rockin::rockin::rockin::rockin:
:rockin::rockin::rockin::rockin:

 

[C-Rider]

I just yesterday finished a 1 1/2 gallon BIAB batch. Total time was a little over 4 hours. I'm working w/a 1500 watt hotplate and it takes time to get things heated and to boil.

 

[badmajon]

Reading the posts on this thread, the key seems to be:

1) Heating sparge water during mash
2) No-sparge
3) No-chill

And of course, be organized and have everything prepared and ready to go. I probably waste an hour each time I brew due to my disorganization.

 

[slatebrew]

I use a plate chiller and it is a huge time saver. During my boil I set up a cooler, fill it with water,then add ice until my water is about 7 to 8 degrees below my desired temp to pitch the yeast. That is my water source for the plate chiller. i can chill 5 gallons perfectly in the time it takes to drain the boil pot to the fermenter.

Also, when my wife brews with me having a second set of hands cuts down on time.

 

[Bigscience]

Reading the posts on this thread, the key seems to be:

1) Heating sparge water during mash
2) No-sparge
3) No-chill

And of course, be organized and have everything prepared and ready to go. I probably waste an hour each time I brew due to my disorganization.

And

4) Only heat up the amount of strike water you need to start the mash, not the total for the brew. Filter it the day before to allow it to come up in temp a little bit.

5) Start heating your runoff right away so that when you are done sparging, you are only a few minutes from boiling.

6) Clean your MLT while boiling. (I keep hot PBW in the MLT and then pump to the kettle and then through the chiller when done.) My time limit cleaning the kettle is letting the hot hops cool down.

 

[OLDBREW]

I just beat 3 hours!!!

I grabbed my pot and started filling it with water at 8:10 last night.

I made a 5 gallon batch of pale ale with 8.5 lbs of grain.
30 minutes to heat up my strike water.
I did a 45 minute mash w/ 7 gallons of water.
No sparge. No mashout.
60 minute boil.
Poured the wort into my bucket and stuck it in the garage.
And then I cleaned up.

I looked at the clock as soon as I was done cleaning up and it was 11:09.

It actually took me about 30 minutes to heat up the 7 gallons of water to strike temperatures, but I was somewhat distracted and didn't even have a recipe fully planned out yet, so I had my burner on a low setting while I created the recipe, did some household chores, and gathered ingredients. I probably could've heated up the water in 15 minutes if I knew what the recipe was in advance and didn't have chores to do. So, I think even 2:45 is doable under slightly different circumstances.

My brewhouse efficiency was 83%, and all of my hops were right on schedule.

I just pitched the 4-day old starter about an hour ago. I sprayed my hydrometer with iodophor and waited 15 minutes then popped open the lid, measured the gravity, and pitched the yeast.

At every step, I was planning the next step in advance, so that there were no delays.

Obviously, I haven't actually drank the beer yet, but I'm quite certain that it will be damn good!

:rockin::rockin::rockin::rockin::rockin:
:rockin::rockin::rockin::rockin:

so you cut 15 minutes from you mash schedule, then didn't aerate your wort at all. Didn't account for making a starter, or harvesting your yeast from a previous batch.

Then you didn't count anytime for chilling, so you are putting boiling hot wort in a bucket made out of hdpe plastic that is only rated for 190*F max. I'm guessing. (hope you aren't planning on having children) then 8 hours later.. re open and pitch your yeast.
When the yeast was pitched.. was the time your brew day ended.

What was your wort and yeast temperatures when you pitched without aerating

cutting corners will show up in the finished product

btw is your garage air conditioned or do you have a fermenter fridge out there?

 

[LVBen]

so you cut 15 minutes from you mash schedule, then didn't aerate your wort at all. Didn't account for making a starter, or harvesting your yeast from a previous batch.

Yep, this thread is about brew time. Not time spent making starters, fermenting, dryhopping, etc.

Then you didn't count anytime for chilling, so you are putting boiling hot wort in a bucket made out of hdpe plastic that is only rated for 190*F max. I'm guessing. (hope you aren't planning on having children) then 8 hours later.. re open and pitch your yeast.

Yep. It is called 'no chill' or the 'Aussie method'. Can you cite any reliable source that says this is bad?

When the yeast was pitched.. was the time your brew day ended.

We just have different definitions for 'brew day'. According to mine, my brew day was right at about 3 hours.

What was your wort and yeast temperatures when you pitched without aerating

wort ~= 67°F
yeast ~=78°f

cutting corners will show up in the finished product

It is the same method I've done many times before and I've scored well in homebrew competitions.

btw is your garage air conditioned or do you have a fermenter fridge out there?

No A/C in the garage. The bucket was still slightly warm in the morning, so I moved the bucket into a temperature controlled freezer.

 

[Airborneguy]

I have to agree with Oldbrew on this one. If you move things to a different day or time, all you are doing is messing with your accounting. I've actually gotten a FULL brew day - every necessary task - down to 3.25 hours. I totally believe it is possible to knock some more time off if necessary. But doing that by moving essential tasks to another day doesn't technically make your brew day shorter, it just makes one of your brew days shorter.

 

[Bigscience]

This is starting to sound a little like a right to life, "when does a brew begin?" argument. Will hard liners say it's when the grain is purchased or the recipe is conceived? Or is it not a brew until the yeast is pitched? Is not making a starter and buying 5 vials or ordering grain pre-ground cheating? What about no chill?

I think until there are some ground rules there will always be toppers out there who will claim a new record fasted brew. eg. BIAB 15 min mash using hot water heater strike, 30 min boil, no chill and claim a <1 hour brew day.

So what is a brew day? Does it start when you first fill your HLT or when you light the burner? Does it end when you turn off the kettle burner or when you pitch?

 

[OLDBREW]

it's like taking a can of hopped extract and boiling it for ten minutes, then adding ice cold top off water, then pitching dry yeast. then boasting I brewed a batch of beer in under an hour.

if you don't pitch yeast it is nothing more then diluted extract.

All grain starts the time you start your measurements for the recipe, wether it be the strike water, or grist. mashing includes converting the starches to sugars(complete conversion),lautered/drained, boiled and hopped/spiced, chilled to fermentation temps, aerated,
then pitching the yeast completes the process.

clean up is included in the brew session with gear dried and stored away for the next brew session.

BTW always try to keep your wort and yeast within 10*F of each other and preferably 5*F when pitching. it will keep your yeast from stressing out giving you a more healthy fermentation

 

[mikeysab]

For me a brew day start when I take out my first piece of equipment and ends when I put away the last piece. I like to take my time, think about what im doing and execute everyrthing properly. When I rush I make mistakes. I do 2 batch brew days now so ill never have a 4 hour brew day. Anyway, I enjoy my brew days. for me 6 to 8 hours is typical for 2 batches

 

[EROK]

Does anyone do a single batch sparge instead of a double? I have a new (only 2 batches so far) 3 vessel single tier with 1 pump. For 5 gallon batches I could easily drain my mash to the boil kettle and then do 1 sparge. I always did 2 in the past and I would love to cut one out to save time. Anyone??

I do this everytime. Can't do two sparges, don't have the time for that.

That would add another 15-20 minutes. My goal is to beat 4 hours !

 

[jbsg02]

I started brewing friday at 4pm and was mostly done at 8:30, with a 90 min boil. I don't think I could have saved much time anywhere else

 

[EROK]

Another tip :

Having my son(13) help on brew days is a BIG help. I pay him $10 each brew day, he loves to make some money and I love the HELP.

Doing it all yourself sucks. Plus I am grooming the future brewer in our family.

Life Skills people !

 

[Airborneguy]

All grain starts the time you start your measurements for the recipe, wether it be the strike water, or grist. mashing includes converting the starches to sugars(complete conversion),lautered/drained, boiled and hopped/spiced, chilled to fermentation temps, aerated,
then pitching the yeast completes the process.

clean up is included in the brew session with gear dried and stored away for the next brew session.

I'm with you right up until the putting away part. If I'm timing, I time starting right from when I pull up the recipe on my computer until I am done cleaning. I rarely put my equipment away completely, so to me, once cleaning is complete, I'm done. I have a brew area, so it's not like everything is sitting on my living room floor.

I totally agree with you on the critical steps. Overnight mashing, no-chill, pitching the next day, etc, are just tecniques that shuffle the work around, it still has to be done!

 

[kappclark]

I haven't done it in 3. 4 I can do. I hope that doesn't include cleanup.

The missing part !! It takes me at least an hour to get everything back the way it was, and ready for the next session... I don't want to be cleaning out brewpots on brewday ! this is why I try to clean mash tun during boil etc... parallel processing helps shorten the brewday

 

[waddsworth]

The missing part !! It takes me at least an hour to get everything back the way it was, and ready for the next session... I don't want to be cleaning out brewpots on brewday ! this is why I try to clean mash tun during boil etc... parallel processing helps shorten the brewday

"Parallel processing" - FTW!

This is something that gets employed with greater frequency as you brew more and more. When I first started brewing I thought I needed to stand over the kettle for pretty much the entire brew - then flameout would come and I'd be rushing around like a madman trying to get the chill going. Now, I pretty much know what I can do and when I can do it to move things along. For example, during the mash I run out to get my ice for chilling and also get all my hops, yeast nutrient, whirlfloc, etc. weighed out and set in cups that are marked with their addition time. I get my first runnings (after taking readings, of course) into my kettle and get flame on it to reduce the time-to-boil (by the time my last runnings are being added I only need an additional 2 minutes or less to get back to a boil). After my first hop addition I dump out my spent grains and quick rinse my mash tun. During the chill I collect the hot water runoff in my mash tun to clean it, as well as some random tubing, spoons, mash paddle, etc, with some oxy-clean. Once the wort is in carboys and while it is oxygenating I dump the oxy clean from the mash tun into my kettle and top it off. After yeast is pitched and carboys are in the ferm chamber I dump the oxy clean out of the kettle and rinse it out with a hose in the yard. The only "corner" I cut is that I fill my kettle a day before with tap water and throw in some k-meta to get rid of chlorine/chloramine. So from getting my strike water heated to final rinse-down I'm averaging 5 hours for a 10+ gallon batch. I could reduce that time by having a single large MLT, instead of two smaller ones. Managing multiple tuns is a PITA.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Usually the first thing I do is weigh out the grain so I consider my brewday as 'started' when I begin that. But often the night before I had to fill a water bottle with RO and I don't usually include that nor the time spent researching/formulating/staring at/tweeking the recipe. Nor the time spent making the starter or washing the yeast from a previous batch. I rarely can chill it as cold as I'd like in the kettle so I let it finish chilling in the fermentation-chamber-water-bath for a few hours before pitching yeast.

There is so much 'hurry-up-and-wait' time during brewing that parallel processing is (or should be) a given.

But I enjoy brewing so it's not like I'm trying to rush things too much.

 

[NCBeernut]

Including clean up? I usually finish in about 3 hours for my non-Belgian brews, then spend half an hour cleaning. For most British and American styles I will do a 45 minute mash, hour boil, and I measure and de-chlorinate my water the night before. When brew day comes I just weight and crush my grain while I heat the strike water. In the summer, my brew day gets a little longer since it takes so much longer to chill.

 

[LVBen]

The importance of having a short brew day to me is that I can brew on a tight schedule. It isn't for the purpose of bragging. If I can brew a beer in 3 hours instead or 5 hours then there are far more occasions for me to be able to brew, and I can brew more often. It is way easier to fit a 3-hour brew into any particular day than it is to fit a 5-hour brew in. If I get stuck working late and don't get home until 8:00pm, then that is pretty damn cool to be able to start making a beer at 8:00 and to be done at 11:00, so I can get to bed at a reasonable time.

Some people here seem to think that good beer can't be made quickly. So, for you naysayers, isn't it at least a good goal to be able to make the same great beer in less time?

 

[JasonG]

I have the same issue as the OP - a family that I want to spend time with, a busy work schedule, and a hobby that I really enjoy but that does take a big chunk of time.

I posted a very similar question a month or so ago. One of the best tips is something that I have not yet seen posted here - get an electric heat stick or bucket heater.

The one I purchased is this one

Alternatively, a link on building one yourself: link

The way that I have used mine is to measure out my sparge water the night before and put it into my HLT. I then plug my heat controller in and the probe in a thermowell into the water. I then put an apliance timer between the temp controller and the bucket heater. I set the temp controller for my target sparge temp, and set my apliance timer to start a few hours before I want my brew day to start. This way, I can wake up early in the AM and I am ready to mash in as soon as I walk outside.

Additionally, I have seperated my brew day between two days. I used the above method for mash water. After my son goes to bed, I come out and mash in. I start my burner just after running off the mash. I batch sparge (efficiency in the low 60s so I don't want to skip the sparge) and run that off. I then bring the wort up to boiling briefly, then put on the lid and shut off the burner. I go to bed, wake up early the next day and boil. I have also done as described and cooled the wort down to about 80 F, run into the fermentor, and let my chest freezer take it down the rest of the way.

I realize that some of this is "shifting" the time rather than reducing it alltogether, but my biggest goal is to be around when my son is awake. The above method allows me to start in the evening after he goes to bed, still go to bed myself at a reasonable time, then get up and finish before he wakes up in the AM.

All in all, the bucket heater has definitely shaved time off my brew day, as well as reducing propane use. I use it to heat my sparge water as well. Hope this helps somewhat. I definitely know what you are up against

JG

 

[Airborneguy]

The one I purchased is this one
JG

I really like the look of that! How long does it take to get 3-4 gallons up to 150? That's cheap enough that I don't think I'd bother trying to build one.

 

[JasonG]

I really like the look of that! How long does it take to get 3-4 gallons up to 150? That's cheap enough that I don't think I'd bother trying to build one.

I usually am mashing with about 4-5 gal H20, and try to get it to about 165-170 to mash in. It takes me about 2 hrs to get to that temp. Clearly this a lot longer than usuing a burner, but it is totally hands off, and I don't even have to be there to start or stop it with the timer and temp control set up I described, so I don't really count this towards brewing time.

It is pretty cheap, and seems fairly well built for what it is. The idea of building something myself with electricity that I then submerge into water was a bit worrysome, so I opted for the easy option and bought one. I've only used it a handful of times, so I can't comment much on longevity, but there isn't much to it, so I doubt it is likely to breakdown quickly. Good luck

JG

 

[OLDBREW]

The importance of having a short brew day to me is that I can brew on a tight schedule. It isn't for the purpose of bragging. If I can brew a beer in 3 hours instead or 5 hours then there are far more occasions for me to be able to brew, and I can brew more often. It is way easier to fit a 3-hour brew into any particular day than it is to fit a 5-hour brew in. If I get stuck working late and don't get home until 8:00pm, then that is pretty damn cool to be able to start making a beer at 8:00 and to be done at 11:00, so I can get to bed at a reasonable time.

Some people here seem to think that good beer can't be made quickly. So, for you naysayers, isn't it at least a good goal to be able to make the same great beer in less time?

What we are saying is you are not making your brew any quicker. You are just dividing the session time up over two days, so you are in fact taking longer to complete your brew day, then what you are saying. You can't call hot wort a finished brewing session. You must chill then pitch the yeast and clean up, in order for the session to finish. Without yeast being added the session isn't complete.

So when you come home and start at 8pm, then finish the boil at 11pm, then clean up. Now you still need to wait for the wort to chill down to pitching temperatures, then aerate, and pitch the yeast.
So from 11 pm until the wort gets down to pitching temp, needs to be added on, and the time when you actually pitch the yeast and clean up from that needs adding on, then the session is completed.

This last time you put it in the garage after the boil. The next morning you had to go back, move it to a freezer to get it cold enough to pitch. That's more time you need to add to your session. Add all the times up and you'll find that you are not brewing a faster beer. It has also taken time from two separate days away from other things you could be doing.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

This last time you put it in the garage after the boil. The next morning you had to go back, move it to a freezer to get it cold enough to pitch. That's more time you need to add to your session. Add all the times up and you'll find that you are not brewing a faster beer. It has also taken time from two separate days away from other things you could be doing.

I agree with you there, but I think that what the OP wants is to limit the amount of "undivided attention time" that brewing requires. Spending 15-20 minutes the night before to measure grains and water isn't a big deal, I think he's more concerned about being away from the family for 4-5-6 hours straight.

M_C

 

[LVBen]

What we are saying is you are not making your brew any quicker. You are just dividing the session time up over two days, so you are in fact taking longer to complete your brew day, then what you are saying. You can't call hot wort a finished brewing session. You must chill then pitch the yeast and clean up, in order for the session to finish. Without yeast being added the session isn't complete.

So when you come home and start at 8pm, then finish the boil at 11pm, then clean up. Now you still need to wait for the wort to chill down to pitching temperatures, then aerate, and pitch the yeast.
So from 11 pm until the wort gets down to pitching temp, needs to be added on, and the time when you actually pitch the yeast and clean up from that needs adding on, then the session is completed.

This last time you put it in the garage after the boil. The next morning you had to go back, move it to a freezer to get it cold enough to pitch. That's more time you need to add to your session. Add all the times up and you'll find that you are not brewing a faster beer. It has also taken time from two separate days away from other things you could be doing.

I don't really care if I have to take a couple more minutes the next day to pitch the yeast. The majority of the work is complete in 3 hours, and I can relax without having to worry about timing or boilovers. Call it a 3-hour brew day followed by a 2-minute "brew day" if you want. What you call it doesn't matter to me. I'm just glad that I don't necessarily have to devote 4 to 5 hours in a single day to make beer.

 

[hungrymonkey]

If yesterdays brew had not had a hiccup, I would of been done in under 3.5 hours.

I filled my mash tun up with hot water from my hot water heaters drain valve. That saved me a good 20 minutes of heating water for the preheat.

I also started heating the first runnings right after I had the sparge water to temp. That shaved off a bit of time.

 

[LVBen]

My 3-hour beer was one of the best beers that I've ever made.