AG Boil Volume Questions

[Eskimo Spy]

So, I did a honey weizen today (recipe below).

I mashed it with 2.5 gallons @ 153°F for 50 mins, then mashed out with 1.5 gallons at 170°F for 10 mins. This gave me ~2.9 gallons of wort (.8 in grain absorption and .3 in MLT dead space is my guess.) I then batch sparged using 4.1 gallons, but only ended up with 3.5 gallons from the sparge, giving me a total of ~6.5 in the pot.

By the end of the 60 min boil, I chilled, then racked to the primary bucket, only getting a total of 4 gallons of wort into the primary. I topped off the primary with a gallon of water, and checked my gravity, which was supposed to 1.048, and I got 1.049, so at least I've got that going for me.

So first question; why did I lose that much volume on my batch sparge? I don't think I had a stuck sparge, but maybe I'm wrong.

Second question; I lost 2.5 gallons, I'm assuming ~.75 gallon to trub and 1.75 to evaporation. So, next time should I top off the pot with another gallon of water before the boil, bringing my boil volume up to 7.5 gallons?

Last question; Do most of you get your proper boil volume with just your mash and sparge water?

---------

Honey Weizen Recipe

4 lb. Weyermann pale wheat
4 lb. Rahr 2-row pale
1 lb. honey (1 min.)

1 oz. Sterling 6% AA (60 min.)

Wyeast 1010 American wheat

 

[Yooper]

I don't see how it's possible to "lose" water in the sparge. I mean, the grain is already saturated from the mash, and the deadspace should be filled. So, where did almost .75 gallon go? That doesn't make sense to me.

I use Beersmith and always hit my volumes, but it did take some tweaking of the software to get there.

In your brew there, I would have done the mash with 10 quarts, just as you did. I don't usually do a mash out, though. Still, those volumes look good to me. I usually do have about 6.25 gallons at the start of the boil, as I only boil off about a gallon, though.

I guess the way to fix this issue is to add more water to your sparge volume. I'd be hesitant to use more than .5 gallon per pound of grain in a sparge, though. I've never experienced it, but I've heard that oversparging can cause some tannin extraction, and you're safe with .5 gallon per pound of sparge water.

Was your grain bed dry, and completely drained when you were finished? Even though it absorbs water, it's definitely not the least bit liquid-y when I've drawn off the final runnings. Did you have alot under your false bottom?

I'm scratching my head here, trying to figure out where your water went!

 

[jmo88]

1: I'd say that difference is your dead space

2: 2.5gl is too much for me. I pour the trub in. Lots of goodies and sugar I don't want to leave behind.

3: can't speak for others but I do.

 

[T-Hops]

I calculate all my recipes for a 6 gallon batch. I sparge till I have approx 7 gallons in the brew pot. I boil down to 6 gallons and after racking I have approx 5.25 to 5.5 in the fermentor. Leaving me 4.75 to 5 gallons in the keg.

 

[Eskimo Spy]

I don't see how it's possible to "lose" water in the sparge. I mean, the grain is already saturated from the mash, and the deadspace should be filled. So, where did almost .75 gallon go? That doesn't make sense to me.

I use Beersmith and always hit my volumes, but it did take some tweaking of the software to get there.

In your brew there, I would have done the mash with 10 quarts, just as you did. I don't usually do a mash out, though. Still, those volumes look good to me. I usually do have about 6.25 gallons at the start of the boil, as I only boil off about a gallon, though.

I guess the way to fix this issue is to add more water to your sparge volume. I'd be hesitant to use more than .5 gallon per pound of grain in a sparge, though. I've never experienced it, but I've heard that oversparging can cause some tannin extraction, and you're safe with .5 gallon per pound of sparge water.

Was your grain bed dry, and completely drained when you were finished? Even though it absorbs water, it's definitely not the least bit liquid-y when I've drawn off the final runnings. Did you have alot under your false bottom?

I'm scratching my head here, trying to figure out where your water went!

The only reason I did the mashout is because the recipe is 50% wheat.

I don't use a false bottom, I'm using a SS braid.

After the sparge, my grain bed looked dry, and even with a quick spin back and forth on my round cooler MLT, the bed cracked open and I saw no evidence of liquid. That said, this is only my third all grain, so I'm no expert, not yet anyway!

I have to guess that I did have a stuck sparge, that would seem to be the only thing that makes sense. I didn't do anything about it, next time I'll try blowing up the hose, then adding some more water if that fails.

 

[Yooper]

The only reason I did the mashout is because the recipe is 50% wheat.

I don't use a false bottom, I'm using a SS braid.

After the sparge, my grain bed looked dry, and even with a quick spin back and forth on my round cooler MLT, the bed cracked open and I saw no evidence of liquid. That said, this is only my third all grain, so I'm no expert, not yet anyway!

I have to guess that I did have a stuck sparge, that would seem to be the only thing that makes sense. I didn't do anything about it, next time I'll try blowing up the hose, then adding some more water if that fails.

If the grain bed looked "dry", then you got all the sparge water out. I just don't quite get it.

You can try increasing your mash ratio to 1.5 quarts/pound and then keep the same amount of sparge volume in your next brew and see if this helps. As long as you're consistent, it really doesn't matter what those amounts are.
I think you had quite a bit of boil off, though. Did you have a raging boil?

 

[Eskimo Spy]

The boil didn't look explosive to me, but again, I'm still new. All I can say is that the boil looked just like all my other boils.

I think I'll make another English ale next time, so no need for a mash out.

Here's my process for the next brew, does this look good?

English Best Bitter

9 lb. 2-row pale
.75 lb. Crystal 60°L

1.0 oz. Fuggles 60 mins
1.0 oz. EK Golding 60 mins
.5 oz. EK Golding 10 mins

Wyeast 1968 London Ale

I'm using Brewsmith and Mash and Sparge Water Calculator ::: Brew365 - Homebrewing Recipes and Articles to figure my numbers. Brewsmith says 5.44 gallons of sparge water, Brew365 says 5.67, both of which are well above the .5 gallons per pound of grain. What's the deal with that?

--Mash with ~3 gallons (1.25 per pound) @ 154°F, using 177°F water in MLT for 5 mins, then dough in when water is at 167°F. This should give me a loss of ~1 gallon to grain absorption, and ~.5 to dead space, producing 1.5 gallons of wort.

--Sparge using 6 gallons (roughly .61 gallons per pound), which should give me a boil volume of ~7.5, or is this way too much to sparge with?

Thanks Yoop!

 

[drayman86]

There also has to be some accounting for shrinkage. 212F water occupies a bit more space than 70F water.

 

[Yooper]

The boil didn't look explosive to me, but again, I'm still new. All I can say is that the boil looked just like all my other boils.

I think I'll make another English ale next time, so no need for a mash out.

Here's my process for the next brew, does this look good?

English Best Bitter

9 lb. 2-row pale
.75 lb. Crystal 60°L

1.0 oz. Fuggles 60 mins
1.0 oz. EK Golding 60 mins
.5 oz. EK Golding 10 mins

Wyeast 1968 London Ale

I'm using Brewsmith and Mash and Sparge Water Calculator ::: Brew365 - Homebrewing Recipes and Articles to figure my numbers. Brewsmith says 5.44 gallons of sparge water, Brew365 says 5.67, both of which are well above the .5 gallons per pound of grain. What's the deal with that?

--Mash with ~3 gallons (1.25 per pound) @ 154°F, using 177°F water in MLT for 5 mins, then dough in when water is at 167°F. This should give me a loss of ~1 gallon to grain absorption, and ~.5 to dead space, producing 1.5 gallons of wort.

--Sparge using 6 gallons (roughly .61 gallons per pound), which should give me a boil volume of ~7.5, or is this way too much to sparge with?

Thanks Yoop!

I don't have software open right now, but I'd try mashing a bit thinner (1.5 quarts/pound) and then using a bit less sparge water, to get you to your volume. That will give you more first runnings, so you can probably get by with .5 gallons of sparge water per pound, but do the math, please- I had a LONG day at work and my brain is fried (and full of beer, besides).

 

[Eskimo Spy]

Thanks for the help, I'll crunch the numbers and report back once I make the next batch, we'll see if I lose water in the sparge again

 

[hayabusa]

There also has to be some accounting for shrinkage.

sorry, i had to.