After reading, and following instructions to a tee, still only 57% efficiency

[ndhowlett]

Did edWort's Haus Ale, and followed instructions to a tee. That includes batch sparging with specific amounts of water, including specific amounts of water in the mash. Still only got 57% efficiency? Everything was on, the temps, the amount, everything.

What gives?

Here's the recipe link https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=31793

 

[morrighu]

How fine is the crush on your grain?

Are you maintaining temps on your sparge water?

What's your water like?

M.

 

[Bobby_M]

Scroll down to the end of this page and tell me if any of your steps vary. If so, which ones. That will help me help you.

www.suebob.com/brew/allgrain.htm

 

[Got Trub?]

In general there are three major causes of poor efficiency.

1) Grain crush
2) Mash conversion
3) Losses to your system

The iodine test will help you with 1 & 2. If the solution (NOT the bits of grain) is still black after 60min you have a conversion problem and need to fix your water or process. If the solution doesn't turn black (ie you are getting good conversion) you have a grain crush problem. System losses should be obvious - you lose alot of wort somewhere from dead space etc.

GT

 

[huskermn]

After reading up on efficiency and using a variety of calculators available online, I've found a difference about 12% for the batch I did yesterday, ranging from 64-76%. Since the calculators do not include the exact type of grain I used, I had to guess a bit on which listed grain was close. That seemed to account for the differences. The one that most closely matched what I used, including the particular brand names, was the highest.

Does anyone know how to find out the exact specifications for the grain we use? And I'm not even sure what I'd be looking for...

Edit: So I entered a measurement wrong in one of the calculators. But I still had a range of 6%. More to the point of the original post: How confident can we be figuring our efficiency?

 

[tdavisii]

If it tastes good when you are done then you are successful. As far as efficiency how many all grains have you done? How well do you know your equipment and your experience level? When i started AG i took about 1000lbs of grain to do a five gallon batch. Now, with about 10-15 AG batches under my belt I have improved considerably. Bottom line, If it comes out tasting good continue doing what you are doing.

 

[ndhowlett]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart

Here's a link to help with the efficiency calculations
Check out the link above (article). It really explains the efficiency % calculation well.

I mill at the LBS. I've done three AG's and two of three were well off the expected O.G. Maybe I'll invest in a mill.

My calculations for water are great, but I'm a little confused on the reason for the "Mash Out." What will raising the temp do for getting the sugars out. I like the method the guy used in the article, but was wondering how long I should let the 2nd and 3rd batch's of the sparge sit before I sparge. Seems I will thoroughly rinse the grains.

The beers that have been off, but most likely they will be good beers. I hope the ABV drop, looks like 1% (from 5.3 to 4.5 and 5.5 to 4.3) on each beer I didn't do too well on efficiency won't take away from the taste. I've been told before that some of the best beers people have made (homebrew) have been off mistakes. Don't want to make it a habit, but that's the fun in homebrewing.

 

[moger777]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart

Here's a link to help with the efficiency calculations
Check out the link above (article). It really explains the efficiency % calculation well.

I mill at the LBS. I've done three AG's and two of three were well off the expected O.G. Maybe I'll invest in a mill.

My calculations for water are great, but I'm a little confused on the reason for the "Mash Out." What will raising the temp do for getting the sugars out. I like the method the guy used in the article, but was wondering how long I should let the 2nd and 3rd batch's of the sparge sit before I sparge. Seems I will thoroughly rinse the grains.

The beers that have been off, but most likely they will be good beers. I hope the ABV drop, looks like 1% (from 5.3 to 4.5 and 5.5 to 4.3) on each beer I didn't do too well on efficiency won't take away from the taste. I've been told before that some of the best beers people have made (homebrew) have been off mistakes. Don't want to make it a habit, but that's the fun in homebrewing.

Sugar and other solids dissolve more easily at higher temperatures, thats why you want to have a "mash out". You don't wanna get higher than 170 degrees though because even though your efficiency may improve you will increase the chances of extracting tannins from the grain husks.

 

[Bobby_M]

I've found that a mash out in a double batch sparge drop efficiency just a bit. You don't need to let sparge water sit for any length of time other than how long it takes to stir the water in.

 

[RICLARK]

How hot is your Sparge water? I have had 10-14 point jumps ever since I started sparging with hotter water 185 ish for me. I have also switched on certain brews to a double Infusion and that really jumps me up.

 

[ndhowlett]

Can you explain the double infusion?????

I don't know what to do!! If the recipe calls for 151 single infusion, why would I put the temp up???? Should I bump the temp up???? Won't I get a different tasting beer because of the deviation from the recipe???

Still lost, but not frustrated.

 

[sully]

im interested as well. ive never tried to sparge with water hotter then 170, i had the same problem on sundays ipa brew session. my og was off by 6 points. previous beers have been spot on.

 

[Bobby_M]

170F sparge water in a no mash out batch sparge only gets your grainbed up to like the high 150's. That's not great for sugar soluability. Going up to 180 will help quite a bit.

 

[sully]

thanks for clearing that up i will try it on sundays light rye brew session.

 

[scottthorn]

I recently resolved some efficiency issues with a few easy fixes:

1) Getting a better thermometer - and testing it to make sure it's accurate. I had been using the one that came with my turkey fryer. It has an analog dial which is too imprecise for brewing. You couldn't be certain if you were at 148° or 153°. $20 at Target got me a digital thermometer with a temp probe and a built-in timer. Totally worth it!

2) Using better water. My house water comes from a well and has ultra heavy mineral content which, as I've discovered, is not conducive to brewing. I've since used storebought drinking water as well as running my well H2O through a reverse osmosis filter.

3) Switching from batch sparging to a pseudo-fly sparge. I don't have an arm or anything, but I just add sparge water as the runnings flow - keeping the water level steady above the grains. I pour it over the back of a spoon so it doesn't disturb the grainbed.

I can't say if one of the three made more difference than another, but I went from sub 60% efficiency into the 70s% without spending a ton of money or significantly altering my process. Maybe one or more will work for you...

 

[RICLARK]

Can you explain the double infusion?????

I don't know what to do!! If the recipe calls for 151 single infusion, why would I put the temp up???? Should I bump the temp up???? Won't I get a different tasting beer because of the deviation from the recipe???

Still lost, but not frustrated.

Name: Double Infusion, Light Body Mash Tun Weight: 9.00 lb
Mash Grain Weight: 12.25 lb Mash PH: 5.4 PH
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
Sparge Water: 1.00 gal Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE

Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Protein Rest Add 2.76 gal of water at 134.8 F 122.0 F 30 min
Saccrification Add 2.45 gal of water at 190.7 F 150.0 F 30 min
Mash Out Add 2.51 gal of water at 211.6 F 168.0 F 10 min

This is the Schedule of my last Double Infusion, It gives you a protein Rest and a Saccrification, Basically your Heating your mash up in timed intervals. It has helped me on wheats mostley and this last Recipe it worked great on my Schwarzbier.

I would start pre heating your mash tun before you start your mash, you want the mash up around the 155-157 range. When you sparge I suggest using two equal size batches at 185 degrees.