Advice to future home brewer

[jetmac]

Kits including things you never use? Like what? I use everything that was in my brewing kit. I just have so many glass bottles now that I don't use the PET's as much. Just curious as to what these things might be in some cases? Maybe some kits I haven't seen?...

a begining brewer does not need a 5 gal glass carboy. That's $30 alone. That money could be used to a good kettle or burner or funnel or scale that is not included. The carboy brush. $5 could be used towards a nice steel spoon that is not included

Then in the "Upgraded" kit they include 2 5 gallon glass carboy's

 

[Swank2323]

So let's say I go for the starter kit route for now what is some opinions on a good kit. We have pretty much crossed off the Mr. Beer kits. If I choose to build my own starter kit what kinds of things will I need to buy for the kit. I'll even take a good book or site that explains these things. Sorry for being a noob and asking for so much but I really don't know what I need otherwise I would google it myself.

 

[RTPalmer]

Many people starting out are not aware of what equipment is needed or if they even will want to continue brewing. Starter kits are good for people who are curious about the hobby and are on a budget.

Agreed. Everything in the kits do generally get used. My buddy bought a kit and uses all the hardware, he ended up buying more but that always comes with the hobby. Also, starting with extract is not a bad idea because it's always good to ease into beer brewing. A few guys I know that have been brewing beer for years actually advised me to do such. Don't ever let anyone discourage you and hey, relax and enjoy the ride! Cheers!

Also, if you want an awesome book, check out "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing." Hope this helps, as it helped me greatly!

 

[unionrdr]

a begining brewer does not need a 5 gal glass carboy. That's $30 alone. That money could be used to a good kettle or burner or funnel or scale that is not included. The carboy brush. $5 could be used towards a nice steel spoon that is not included

Then in the "Upgraded" kit they include 2 5 gallon glass carboy's

I have to agree on the 5G carboy. Likely wouldn't use it myself,so I opted out of that one. I like the plastic spoons better myself. Not as easy to scratch or bang things up as with a steel spoon. But that's my opinion/preference. And the carboy brush would better be replaced with that drill operated one that's advertised on here. Saw that one used by Gary on Home Brewer TV. Thought that was better. Maybe not on plastic ones though.

 

[robertus]

So let's say I go for the starter kit route for now what is some opinions on a good kit. We have pretty much crossed off the Mr. Beer kits. If I choose to build my own starter kit what kinds of things will I need to buy for the kit. I'll even take a good book or site that explains these things. Sorry for being a noob and asking for so much but I really don't know what I need otherwise I would google it myself.

I'm a noob myself (5, maybe 6 batches), but I think your basic self-made starter kit would be:

• 5-gallon* pot for brewing
• Fermenting bucket/Ale Pail
• Airlock
• Thermometer
• Hydrometer
• Metal spoon for the stirring (I just use my all-purpose kitchen spoon)

Then, for bottling, you'd need:

• Bottling bucket (with spigot)
• Bottling wand
• Some tubing

*I've only done extract brews with 1.5- and 3-gallon boils, your mileage may vary.

 

[theveganbrewer]

So let's say I go for the starter kit route for now what is some opinions on a good kit. We have pretty much crossed off the Mr. Beer kits. If I choose to build my own starter kit what kinds of things will I need to buy for the kit. I'll even take a good book or site that explains these things. Sorry for being a noob and asking for so much but I really don't know what I need otherwise I would google it myself.

You can look at the kits online and see what is in them. I guess it is difficult at first because the process hasn't unfolded in front of you, so you don't know what you need and when you need it.

From start to finish, doing extract, you'd need the following:

Large brew kettle (stainless steel pot)
Long spoon
Fermenting bucket (6 gallon plastic tub)
Bucket Lid
Airlock
Bottling bucket with spigot and racking tubes
Bottle capper
Bottles
liquid thermometer

For all-grain:
Cooler MLT (search for Rubbermaid cooler MLT)
9 gallon brew kettle
long spoon
Propane burner
Fermenting bucket
Lid
Airlock
Bottling Bucket with spigot and tubes
bottle capper
bottles
liquid thermometer

As I mentioned in my earlier post, if you make the investment in a large brew kettle from the beginning, you give yourself the freedom to do extract, partial, or all grain without having to buy something again or upgrade it. The cooler MLT can be made for about 50 or 60 bucks and would be the only thing you would need in addition to the larger brew kettle.

 

[RM-MN]

I don't understand why everyone says AG brewing is so much more expensive than extract.

I have never extract brewed. But the way I understand it the only thing extra, equipment wise, would be the mash tun. Depending on how you make it, it's going to be less than $60. The kettle I boil my wort with is what I use to heat my strike water. I batch sparge. I do use a 5 gallon drink cooler to hold my sparge water at temp but sparge water doesn't have to be hot.

The only extra time is the 60 min mash, 10-15 min sparge, and the time it takes to heat up strike water.

It's not that complicated, time consuming or expensive as some make it out to be

You went the expensive route if you had to spend $60 to go all grain. I added a pair of paint strainer bags and I was ready had I been willing to accept somebody else crushing the grain. I wanted complete control so I added a cheap grain mill (about $20) and made my first batch, only a 2 1/2 gallon size because I didn't want to go bigger until I knew it would work. There isn't any reason I couldn't have continued with that but once I knew it worked well, I "had" to upgrade to a larger pot to do the full volume boil for a 5 gallon batch.

Search out "brew in a bag" or "BIAB on this forum to see how I went all grain.

 

[jmlabeck]

My advice would be...don't listen to any of us. To brew beer, you need
1) a boil pot
2) a fermentation vessel
3) something to store the finished beer
4)a way to get your beer from one to the other

I did an experiment a few months ago, to see how cheaply you could start. By scrounging, and shopping sales, you could do your first extract brew for $17, plus ingredients.

 

[KevinW]

A lot of good advice so far concerning what equipment is needed and I for one like to keep it as simple and inexpensive as possible.

A good start is extract as the mashing process can seem overwhelming and you do need a mash tun ($5 igloo for mine plus $20 for the valve and screen) and you need a fairly large kettle (8 gal. minimum got mine 13 gallon for $39+$24 to convert) to do full boils. In reality, all I needed to invest to go all grain was another $90 or so.

An extract clone of Fat Tire cost me $39.00 in supplies. The extact same beer converted to all grain, $23.00 in supplies. If you compare all grain to extract the cost savings in the long run will go to all grain. If you compare the ease of all grain to extract, well, extract does not require a mash so you can figure that one out!

Craigslist is your friend, use him when ever possible (always be careful though)!! When you cannot find it cheap enough, try to make it yourself!! Example, a storebought mash paddle can run $50.00 or more. ~$7.00 for a nice oak plank from Lowes and I can make my own mash paddle!

Do not feel overwhelmed by extract or all grain brewing, it really is not that difficult!!

Good luck

 

[mlyday]

C'mon man. " The extracts cut out some of the complexity that all-grain adds (hitting mash temps, grain crushing etc)." Really?

I mean, extract brew because you want to, not because it's less complicated.

Whats with the all the hate.

He said he hasnt brewed before, and Im only saying it may be easier to walk before you run. There is a lot of stuff going on during the mash that he wont have to worry about if he starts with extracts. Could he handle doing all grain right off, yes, im sure he could.

What I was saying is it less inimidating to a new brewer and it would allow him time to focus on more important things to learn in my opinion, like yeast health and fermentation temps.

 

[jetmac]

You went the expensive route if you had to spend $60 to go all grain. I added a pair of paint strainer bags and I was ready had I been willing to accept somebody else crushing the grain. I wanted complete control so I added a cheap grain mill (about $20) and made my first batch, only a 2 1/2 gallon size because I didn't want to go bigger until I knew it would work. There isn't any reason I couldn't have continued with that but once I knew it worked well, I "had" to upgrade to a larger pot to do the full volume boil for a 5 gallon batch.

Search out "brew in a bag" or "BIAB on this forum to see how I went all grain.

See, there ya go. Now why would anyone believe AG is Way more expensive than extract? Or so much more "complicated" than extract.

 

[Goblism]

Here is my advice
Buy this here
http://www.anrdoezrs.net/click-4534259-10872943?url=http%3A//www.groupon.com/new-york/deals/gx-midwest-hydroponic-new-york%3Futm_source%3Dfeedburner%26utm_medium%3Dfeed%26utm_campaign%3DFeed%253A+grouponnew-york+%2528Groupon+New+York%2529
a 9 gallon kettle
make beer
enjoy another kit using the $25 gift card included in the groupon

ignore all of those all grain people, i do all grain, but start with this kit, you will get several items you will be able to reuse as well

I highly suggest the autumn ale for your first brew as well, but that is if you like that style

 

[jetmac]

So let's say I go for the starter kit route for now what is some opinions on a good kit. We have pretty much crossed off the Mr. Beer kits. If I choose to build my own starter kit what kinds of things will I need to buy for the kit. I'll even take a good book or site that explains these things. Sorry for being a noob and asking for so much but I really don't know what I need otherwise I would google it myself.

Have you decided all-grain or extract?

For all grain:

A big pot to heat water in and boil wort. This can be fancy as a stainless steel kettle with a tri-clad bottom, a site glass, ball valve and thermometer. Or an aluminum pot. Either way, I recommend at least 9.5 gallons. You'll need a digital thermometer to check the temperature. You'll need a source to heat the liquid in the pot. You can possibly get away with this on your gas stove, you can get a propane burner for $40-$50. After heating your strike water, you'll pour it into a Mash tun. You can piece this together, get one already built or you can do "brew in a bag" biab. You'll need a spoon to stir. I prefer metal(it won't bend). After mashing, you'll need a plastic pitcher to vorlauf into, then you'll sparge. You can get away with not heating the sparge water. Then you heat your wort to boiling. You may need a scale to weigh hops. When done boiling you'll need to chill quickly with an immersion chiller.
After that, you pour(or drain) into a bucket or carboy, let it cool down. Pitch yeast and insert drilled plug with airlock. Let it ferment and then either let it sit a few more weeks to get ready for kegging or whatever you need to do for bottling (I don't bottle either)

You'll also need PBW, Star San and various hoses.

 

[jetmac]

ignore all of those all grain people,

Don't take this advice. Everyone has something you can learn.

Start AG if you want or start with extract.

 

[jetmac]

Here is my advice
Buy this here
Midwest Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies Deal of the Day | Groupon New York City

That looks like a good deal. OP should get it

 

[JoeyChopps]

Here is my advice
Buy this here
http://www.anrdoezrs.net/click-4534259-10872943?url=http%3A//www.groupon.com/new-york/deals/gx-midwest-hydroponic-new-york%3Futm_source%3Dfeedburner%26utm_medium%3Dfeed%26utm_campaign%3DFeed%253A+grouponnew-york+%2528Groupon+New+York%2529
a 9 gallon kettle
make beer
enjoy another kit using the $25 gift card included in the groupon

ignore all of those all grain people, i do all grain, but start with this kit, you will get several items you will be able to reuse as well

I highly suggest the autumn ale for your first brew as well, but that is if you like that style

Thanks for finding this. This was the groupon I was talking about that my wife always sees. It's a pretty rockin deal

 

[jetmac]

Whats with the all the hate.

He said he hasnt brewed before, and Im only saying it may be easier to walk before you run. There is a lot of stuff going on during the mash that he wont have to worry about if he starts with extracts. Could he handle doing all grain right off, yes, im sure he could.

What I was saying is it less inimidating to a new brewer and it would allow him time to focus on more important things to learn in my opinion, like yeast health and fermentation temps.

The word "complexity" is what gets me. I understand what you're saying. Regardless of which route he takes, the first time will be like a Chinese fire drill.
Adding making your own wort is not complex. You heat water to a certain temp, pour it in, wait 60 min or less.

 

[Goblism]

Don't take this advice. Everyone has something you can learn.

Start AG if you want or start with extract.

jetmac this thread is not about which is better all grain or extract, this thread is about this guy getting into brewing.

The link I provided is by far the best option for a new brewer. $76 ($12 shipping) and he has 2 buckets, a kit, tubing, capper, and gift card for another kit.

You will be able to reuse nearly everything in this kit IF you go all grain, if you don't than oh well the price is right

 

[jetmac]

jetmac this thread is not about which is better all grain or extract,

My point exactly.

Some are trying to steer him away from AG based on their inaccurate thinking that AG is somehow more expensive, or too complex for a beginner.

It's not. Give him advice on either but don't tell him to avoid one or the other.
avoiding AG is not going to automatically get him to stay with brewing.

I avoided extract because I see all that syrup and want to avoid it.I didn't want to add water to the syrup and watch it boil. I wanted to brew the way people started brewing. With water, grain, hops and yeast.

So did I tell him stay away from extract? No

 

[theveganbrewer]

Get the Groupon deal and order the brew kettle on amazon. Don't get anything smaller than 36q and you will be fine for extract or all-grain if you choose to go there in the future.
Amazon.com: Bayou Classic 1036, 36-Qt. Stainless Fryer/Steamer: Home & Garden

 

[iron_city_ap]

In the long term, to do a traditional style of brewing, you will probably end up doing 'all grain' brewing. It takes way longer, barely saves money, and requires twice the equipment, just like a real brewery...

I wouldn't say all grain barely saves money. If you factor in all the additional equipment I bought/made when making the switch, well..... you got me there. I can make a good all grain for about $20-25 less than a comperable kit would cost. Then again, I also recycle my yeast which is a MASSIVE help to the ingredient fund.

Definately start with extract and a good middle of the road, at worst, kit. Decide if you like the hobby and expand/grow/learn from there.

 

[overdbus]

I didn't start brewing looking for an ROI ,I started because I want
to make good beer, and I started with all-grain because I like a challenge.

 

[HopLife]

I wouldn't say all grain barely saves money. If you factor in all the additional equipment I bought/made when making the switch, well..... you got me there. .

If you are selective about which costs you include or don't include it is easy to say you are saving money.

Most people ignore many of the costs. Additionally, most brewers use the price of a six pack as a comparison cost, not a case from costco. You looked online for the best price on a kettle, shouldn't you compare with the best price of beer too. I have found that I can get a case for about $23. My batches are around 4 cases. So I create a batch with a $92 value. The cost of the batch is approximately, $22 grains, $10 hops, $3 yeast, $.5 ammendments, $6 propane, $1 Eletric, $1 cleaners and sanitizers, $2 natural gas, $4 bottle caps, $.50 dextrose, $1 broken hydrometer fund, $.50 grain bag attrition, $.50 bottle attrition, $.50 hose attrition...I think $49.50 I am still ignoring tiny things such as the extra laundry if I get a couple towels dirty, or the cost of mathces. So on 4 cases of beer I have free cash flow of $41.50. Since my equipment has a total cost of around $500 I can pay it off in about 12 brews. So all grain brewing can save money... Just make sure you consider your labor as donated.

 

[HopLife]

I didn't start brewing looking for an ROI ,I started because I want
to make good beer, and I started with all-grain because I like a challenge.

Dont be rude, some of us have to watch our costs. Besidses, original post explicitly stated that he can't spend much money because he has a family.

 

[overdbus]

Dont be rude, some of us have to watch our costs. Besidses, original post explicitly stated that he can't spend much money because he has a family.

I wasn't being rude, just "trying" to point out that for some of us
brewing isn't about the cost, maybe that wasn't the "right" point
to make in this thread.

 

[theveganbrewer]

If you are selective about which costs you include or don't include it is easy to say you are saving money.

Most people ignore many of the costs. Additionally, most brewers use the price of a six pack as a comparison cost, not a case from costco. You looked online for the best price on a kettle, shouldn't you compare with the best price of beer too. I have found that I can get a case for about $23. My batches are around 4 cases. So I create a batch with a $92 value. The cost of the batch is approximately, $22 grains, $10 hops, $3 yeast, $.5 ammendments, $6 propane, $1 Eletric, $1 cleaners and sanitizers, $2 natural gas, $4 bottle caps, $.50 dextrose, $1 broken hydrometer fund, $.50 grain bag attrition, $.50 bottle attrition, $.50 hose attrition...I think $49.50 I am still ignoring tiny things such as the extra laundry if I get a couple towels dirty, or the cost of mathces. So on 4 cases of beer I have free cash flow of $41.50. Since my equipment has a total cost of around $500 I can pay it off in about 12 brews. So all grain brewing can save money... Just make sure you consider your labor as donated.

Costs differ too, depending on how much people comparison shop. For example.

$6 in propane? That can't be right, that's half a tank. I have done 7 6 gallon all-grain batches on one tank and still have gas in there. It costs 12 to fill. It's 2.99 for 144 caps, 4.99 for 144 O2 absorbers at my LHBS. $10 in hops? That's like 10 ounces at prices from label peelers, if you bulk buy, that's more than a pound of hops per batch. Grains are appx $1 a pound bulk. 1 large container of star san will last forever, nowhere near $1 a batch, probably closer to 25 cents. Don't need a grain bag. No attrition in bottles or hose as long as you take care of them. Matches? Wow, a box of 1,000 for 2.99.

Brew in any time other than that with which you work and you cannot count labor in the cost. If you take time off your job there is a cost of lost labor. Sunday afternoon labor doesn't count towards the cost.

For me, it's like $15-20 for grains, $2 for propane, $1 for caps, $2 for hops, 2 cents for a match, 25 cents for star-san, 4 cents for water, and unknown for electric. Washed yeast or buy a new one ever 4 batches, so $1.5 a batch average.

$21.50 for me. I can buy a 24 back of Costco beer for 20 bucks after tax. I can make a 48 pack for $21.50.

I think a lot of people brought up in this thread that it costs very little to switch between AG and Extract. For an extra 60-80 bucks you could go all grain. You could probably save $10 a batch between extract and all-grain, so 6-8 batches to break even on the all-grain thing. If you go over the 60-80 that's personal choice, not necessary. I spent much more than that but didn't need to. Just wanted to.

 

[flyingfinbar]

I wasn't being rude, just "trying" to point out that for some of us
brewing isn't about the cost, maybe that wasn't the "right" point
to make in this thread.

"Probably" "not."

For many, including myself, cost is a major consideration. Luckily, there are many different entry points into this hobby. You can start off with minimal investment, and stay there or move upward into more detailed and intensive processes. Either way, you're still making beer:cross:

 

[HopLife]

Costs differ too, depending on how much people comparison shop. For example.

$6 in propane? That can't be right, that's half a tank. I have done 7 6 gallon all-grain batches on one tank and still have gas in there. It costs 12 to fill. It's 2.99 for 144 caps, 4.99 for 144 O2 absorbers at my LHBS. $10 in hops? That's like 10 ounces at prices from label peelers, if you bulk buy, that's more than a pound of hops per batch. Grains are appx $1 a pound bulk. 1 large container of star san will last forever, nowhere near $1 a batch, probably closer to 25 cents. Don't need a grain bag. No attrition in bottles or hose as long as you take care of them. Matches? Wow, a box of 1,000 for 2.99.


For me, it's like $15-20 for grains, $2 for propane, $1 for caps, $2 for hops, 2 cents for a match, 25 cents for star-san, 4 cents for water, and unknown for electric. Washed yeast or buy a new one ever 4 batches, so $1.5 a batch average.

$21.50 for me. I can buy a 24 back of Costco beer for 20 bucks after tax. I can make a 48 pack for $21.50.

First, Costco beer sucks.

Second, my cost represents twice the finished product. So if I were brewing in 5 gal the cost would be half and the frequency double. Or rather, your frequency is double ie. $21.50 x 2... and maybe using the median of the range in you grain price, 17.50 instead of 15, and we are at $23 for the two cases. Your 4 case cost is still $46 dollars. $46 and $49.50 are not far off.

 

[overdbus]

"Probably" "not."

For many, including myself, cost is a major consideration. Luckily, there are many different entry points into this hobby. You can start off with minimal investment, and stay there or move upward into more detailed and intensive processes. Either way, you're still making beer:cross:

I meant no offence to the OP or anyone else.

 

[Swank2323]

All ya'll's input is a big help. I think I will read some books learn the whole process more. Then I will decide between extract and ag. If anything maybe buy a extract kit with as much of the things I will need also for ag and brew a few batches and add on and move to ag.