Adding too much sugar to a belgian

[Husher]

So my general rule is to not add more than 1 kilo of dextrose to any 5 or 6 gallon batch (2.2 Lbs). Think is, I'm planning on making a Belgian (blond or dubbel) which calls for Belgian candi sugar. So...No more than a kilo of any sugar combination? Of is it in addition to the candi sugar? Plus I was planning on adding 2 Lbs of Belgian candi sugar. Is that alone too much? Should the threshold for Belgian candi sugar be 1 Lbs? I haven't seem recipes with more than that. or can I cut 1 Lbs of dextrose with 1 Lb of Candi sugar in a single batch?

Thanks

 

[mrmop520]

Belgian candi sugar would definitely count towards your max amount of sugar to use. Too much sugar will leave a watery thin mouth feel. While I can't say i've tried 2lbs of sugar before, I am pretty sure that would be a little too much for a 5 gallon batch.

 

[Haydn-Juby]

Sugars in a Belgian style should generally take up no more than 20% of fermentables, however these are subjective guidelines. With more than this cidery, green apple flavors can arise along with the beer being overly thin.

 

[Husher]

For the record most of my batches are 6 gallons and tend to be heavy on the other fermentables (7%+)

 

[ICWiener]

They say not to use weight as a guideline, use percentage of total fermentables. I put 2.75 lbs of table sugar in my last tripel, but it was still only 17.5%.

 

[ICWiener]

Oh, also, don't worry about dextrose vs. candi vs. table sugar. 99% of the time you can just use table sugar. The yeast don't know the difference and you'll save a lot of money.

 

[troy2000]

Oh, also, don't worry about dextrose vs. candi vs. table sugar. 99% of the time you can just use table sugar. The yeast don't know the difference and you'll save a lot of money.

Is that really true? Supposedly, the yeast does know the difference. When you turn table sugar into invert sugars (break it down from sucrose to glucose and fructose), yeast can consume them directly - instead of having to create amylase to break the sucrose down into simple sugars first.

Yes, candi sugar or syrup is expensive at your LHBS. But when I brew a five gallon batch of saison, I make up a batch of candi while my grains are mashing. It just takes a frying pan, a pound of sugar, a little lemon juice or other acid, and twenty minutes of the time I need to kill while I'm mashing anyway....

Here's my go-to site for making candi sugar or syrup, anytime I go brain-dead and forget how to do it. I usually cook it until it becomes an amber candi, to add a little flavor and color to my saisons.

http://joshthebrewmaster.wordpress.com/2010/11/27/how-to-make-belgian-candi-sugar/

 

[ICWiener]

Is that really true? Supposedly, the yeast does know the difference. When you turn table sugar into invert sugars (break it down from sucrose to glucose and fructose), yeast can consume them directly - instead of having to create amylase to break the sucrose down into simple sugars first.

You're probably right. I'm not one to argue, as I am certainly no chemist. I do know that if yeast need to produce invertase to consume table sugar, it doesn't seem to mess up the flavor of my beers. I always add it on the back end of fermentation, after the yeast has done the bulk of it's work on the wort.

 

[Husher]

They say not to use weight as a guideline, use percentage of total fermentables. I put 2.75 lbs of table sugar in my last tripel, but it was still only 17.5%.

The first time I read this I though you meant 17.5% ABV. Thought you were playing with super yeast!

 

[troy2000]

You're probably right. I'm not one to argue, as I am certainly no chemist. I do know that if yeast need to produce invertase to consume table sugar, it doesn't seem to mess up the flavor of my beers. I always add it on the back end of fermentation, after the yeast has done the bulk of it's work on the wort.

I'm no chemist either, and I don't know that invertase does anything bad to beer - unless it's what causes the 'cidery' taste some people say results from using too much table syrup. But I figure there's no sense making the little yeasties work to create it for converting sucrose (table sugar) into glucose and fructose, when I can do the conversion for them and let them have at those simple sugars directly....

Since wort is acidic, I would imagine adding table sugar during the boil inverts it anyway. And since that's when I add candi, there probably wouldn't be any point bothering to make clear candi. But I use amber candi instead, to add a little flavor and color to my saisons.

I do usually just make simple syrup from a few ounces of table sugar, and add it to the bottling bucket for priming. When you say you add sugar at the end, is that what you're talking about? Or are you adding significant amounts of sugar, to continue the main fermentation?

 

[ICWiener]

When you say you add sugar at the end, is that what you're talking about? Or are you adding significant amounts of sugar, to continue the main fermentation?

What I meant is that I wait until fermentation is about 75% complete, usually 4 days or so, then I add the sugar. I usually don't put any in the boil. That allows the yeast to work on the more complex sugars first, saving the simple sugars till they're almost done anyway. It helps me to get my FG down to .998 - 1.004 every time without any difficulty.

 

[troy2000]

What I meant is that I wait until fermentation is about 75% complete, usually 4 days or so, then I add the sugar. I usually don't put any in the boil. That allows the yeast to work on the more complex sugars first, saving the simple sugars till they're almost done anyway. It helps me to get my FG down to .998 - 1.004 every time without any difficulty.

Seems to me you're looking at it bass ackwards; table sugar is a complex sugar (sucrose), that the yeast has to break down into simple sugars (glucose and fructose) before using. Adding it to the boil should break it down before fermentation, and make it more accessible from the get-go.

On the other hand... if your method works for you it's hard to argue with your results, regardless of the rationale behind it.

 

[ICWiener]

table sugar is a complex sugar

Not nearly as complex as maltose and maltotriose which is what makes up the bulk of the fermentable sugar in your wort. The yeast have to work a lot harder to break those down, don't they?

Either way, yeah I suppose everyone has their own habits and techniques. Maybe next time I make a tripel or a saison I'll chuck my sugar right into the boil.

 

[troy2000]

Not nearly as complex as maltose and maltotriose which is what makes up the bulk of the fermentable sugar in your wort. The yeast have to work a lot harder to break those down, don't they?

Either way, yeah I suppose everyone has their own habits and techniques. Maybe next time I make a tripel or a saison I'll chuck my sugar right into the boil.

Be sure to update us; I'm curious to see if it makes a difference for you.

 

[Husher]

Be sure to update us; I'm curious to see if it makes a difference for you.

Yeah, me too.