Adding a little acid to my beer

[puttster]

Lately I got hooked on beer with a tart taste. Not too sour though, one can of Desthil "Wild Sour" Leipzig-Style Gose/Lambic beer is enough to flavor a whole sixpack. Now, I have five gallons of beer fermenting and my plan is to add 4-6 cans of this sour beer to get the tartness I like.

When would be a good time to add it?

puttster

 

[oceanic_brew]

Would the canned beer still potentially have active bacteria? I've done a lot of sour beer but have never considered how much ends up in the end product and I can't imagine how it would not without Pasteurization. However I sour mash so it's not a problem for me.

Whole point is that you may "infect" your batch. I'm not sure that I would wanna pasteurize pressurized cans but it may be doable.


On a side note, if you keg beer it's very easy, predictable, and fast to do a sour mash in one. I've done them nearly 5 times with great repeatability and I get a huge tart/sourness within 2 days. You would get a subtle tart probably overnight with my method.

If you are interested I can send you a link to my recipe containing the steps. It's very easy.

 

[puttster]

After reading your post I searched sour mash. Looks like there are more than just a few fans of sour beer! I think though, mashing and brewing a bunch of it is too risky for me, for now. This is only my 4th production.

So I think I will stick with an end-game addition of something souring - unless it just won't work, like it will create infection, yeast kill, other issues. The label on the can says "Unfiltered spontaneously fermented wild sour ale."

Maybe there are other things I could add besides cans of $1.50 sour beer. Maybe some kind of acid or sodium hydroxide (depending on whether the tartness is caused by an acid or an alkali)? For now, though, I have the sour, just wondering when is the best time to add it.

 

[hopsandhops]

I'm afraid it's not that easy. If that brew in the cans was spontaneously fermented and hasn't been pasteurized, I wouldn't add them to your brew. You would be introducing souring bacteria to your beer and equipment. Not only could that be difficult to get rid of for future batches, but the souring could take months in your current brew.

If you want a quick, easy tartness, you could try adding lactic acid to your batch. I haven't done it myself, and it wouldn't be as complex as a true sour, but it should add a little tart kick, depending on how much you add.

 

[puttster]

Yes, maybe adding the beer to the beer would be too risky. Along your lines of adding acid, I did read http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/04/brewing-sour-beer-with-acid.html where the guy added 2.4 oz of lactic acid or 5.5 oz of vinegar to 5 gal of already fermented beer to copy the tartness of a Lambic Gueuze. (Maybe he added both?) I've got the vinegar in the pantry as we speak!

 

[oceanic_brew]

There's a brewery here in town called Good Robot that added lemon zest, lactic acid, and sea salt to a beer and it was pretty decent.

One sour I make is with raspberry which has a natural tartness to it. You would need a lot though and it would be overpowering near the 5-6 #'s per batch mark.

Try the lactic acid!

 

[oceanic_brew]

Oh and almost forgot.

What's your recipe?

 

[m00ps]

I made a Gose using lactic acid, a decent amount of acid malt, and a very tart sacch yeast strain (plus salt and coriander obviously) as opposed to kettle souring. It turned out fantastic. I had 20% acid malt and put about 2.5oz of 88% lactic acid directly into the fermentor to taste. It has a very light, refreshing tartness that doesnt quite get into "sour" territory IMO

 

[mabrungard]

It is very unlikely that the finished Gose has bacteria. Wort has to be soured prior to adding any hops in order for the bacteria to thrive. The soured wort can then be hopped and boiled to knock out the bacteria and fermented with yeast.

Adding lactic or acetic acids directly to beer is also an option. They tend to be cleaner than bacterially soured beers, but using a combo of lactic and acetic can help broaden the flavors and make them less 'clean'. The supporter's version of Bru'n Water has the capability to use multiple acids and it reports the concentrations of ions like lactate and acetate along with their typical flavor thresholds so that the brewer can estimate appropriate acid additions for their beer.

 

[blizz81]

When I looked into adding lactic acid (88%, what you find commonly at a LHBS), it seemed 10mL / gal was about the threshold of how high you'd want to go.


I wasn't exactly sure how much was left in the keg when I added. Shot for this ratio. It's more tart than I expected. I plan on kettle souring the next batch, but this was a decent band-aid.

 

[puttster]

You guys are getting me pumped up. I started using up the Sour beer I was saving for this operation. I'll go the acid additive route instead. My LHBS sells 4oz/88% Lactic and 4oz/85% Phosphoric and of course I have my 5% acetic.
My 5-gal recipe is
9 lbs 2-row Pale Moon malt ground in a Corona mill,
1 lb of a roasted malt I can't remember the name
1 oz Cascade 7% bittering
1 oz Hersbrucker 2% aroma
Safale US 05
Sm pkg of dried orange peels
Technique BIAB
The SG is down to 1.008, It is a little too hoppy for my taste, I'll give it some more fermenting. Then add sugar and acid, bottle?

 

[mabrungard]

Do test your acid additions in small scale (by the glass), before you go fortifying a whole keg. Just because Bru'n Water can help determine what the estimated concentrations of these acid anions will be in your beer, it does not substitute for your palate to assess how they all play together.

 

[ericwilson9]

Another thing to look into is acidulated malt. Essentially it's malt that has been sprayed with lactic acid before drying. I have used a small portion while mashing to add a nice acidic/tart flavor to a quick gose recipe.

Adding lactic acid is a decent option for souring but I would recommend using very little to no acetic acid. Small amounts of Acetic can give depth of flavor when accompanied by lactic, but too much will result in a distinct vinegary flavor.

If you're so interested in sour beers I would recommend reading "American sour beers" by Michael tonsmeire aka the mad fermentationist.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

I've used lactic acid in a sour wit before with good enough results. 1/2oz per gal IIRC was the sweet spot. I went up to 1oz per gal for the sake of trying it but it wasn't as good.

 

[puttster]

One last question before I go for it. On another thread here I opined that this beer, now finished fermenting, was too hoppy for my taste. It could be my imagination, but my question to you sour experts is, does sour go with hoppy?

 

[oceanic_brew]

I'm sure that it's possible to get the many characters described as hoppy to go with sour but I haven't had great experience with it.

That's generally the problem with people trying to age their beers once they've been infected in primary or what have you. Even if the infection was a favorable one odds are the recipe won't allow it.

I'm sure someone knows some great examples but if I were to sour a hop forward beer right now it would take me much experimenting.

 

[blizz81]

For my tastes, there's late / dry hops that work with sour / tart...but if we're talking bitterness, past a pretty low threshold I'm not sure if that's something I would enjoy.


There's an easy way to find out if it will "work" for you...pour yourself a glass and put some lactic acid in the glass. (This would be more effective in the kegging world vs. the bottling world, but you'd be able to get a sense from a sample pre-bottling, I suppose).

 

[puttster]

Ok, I tried it and I think its working. Using keywest's formula I added one gram of lactic acid to 8oz of my beer and it improved the taste and got the tartness I was looking for, too.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Glad to hear that worked out for you

 

[Allenk]

We have added lactic acid at bottling with fair results. Get a light lager and add a few drops of lactic acid to get the idea.

 

[puttster]

Okay, my brew has been in bottles for 18 days. I'm having one now (22oz) and it is better than the one I tried a week ago. Now it has just the right touch of tartness. I used 50 ml lactic acid (1/3 of the bottle) and IMO it is just the right amount.
Okay, I'm having another one now. Compared to the one I tested last week, the strength of the hops has receded, and that's a good thing. Tartness seems to be more of a background than a big deal.
Okay one more, I love this recipe

 

[puttster]

This is OP, my next batch used only half that amount and it's better beer. I've decided I like just a hint of tartness, and 20-30 ml over 5 gal works just fine for that.

 

[drksky]

I live just up the street from Destihl and have been to the brewery. The wild sours are soured pre-boil and then fermented with sacch, so there should be no bacteria present.

Their St. Dekkera's are soured post boil and barrel aged.