Add fruit to primary or rack beer on top of fruit in secondary

[cactusgarrett]

Right - i'm agreeing with you. nate ive stated:

I agree with the second krausen scrubbing the sweetness and flavor. Maybe I should have crash cooled after adding the raspberries.

and i just wanted to clarify that it wasn't the actual krausen scrubbing flavors away, but it was as you suggested - the presence of such a krausen was evidence of a very strong fermentation which did as such.

 

[northernlad]

This was an interesting read as I just racked a wheat onto 3lbs blackberries and 1 quart of juice. I am curious how it will go. I alomst bought a few cans of Oregon mixed berries but I noticed that it was the same product the OP used and his experience has confirmed my doubts about using it.

I just sampled it and the frambozen dry and boring. The FG is 1.008. There are hints of raspberry and a linger bitterness, there is no sweetness at all. Maybe I should have mashed this at a higher temp then 152F. Or maybe a less aggressive yeast - I used Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale. Any suggestions on how to recover this?

I am guessing you sampled out of your fermentation, not out of a properly conditioned bottle. NEver judge a beer until its had time to condition.

 

[nate_ive]

The frambozen was in the primary for a month. If there was any real flavor at all, I would have bottled it. I started a brown ale yesterday. I'm going to split this batch and bottle half as frambozen and half as brown ale. This is my plan.

I'm going to use the Oregon Raspberries in Heavy Syrup as the priming sugar for the frambozen. I'm going to put one can through the food processor then strain it through my hop bag and pasteurize the syrup at 160F. Cool the syrup, add it to the bottling bucket, and rack 2 gallons of brown ale into the bucket then bottle. The Oregon raspberry can says it is 3 servings and it has 28grams(1oz) of sugar per serving so I should get almost 3 oz of priming sugar from the syrup. Since the syrup is used for priming, there is no place for the raspberry flavor/aroma to ferment away too. I'm not looking for a dominate raspberry flavor, so I this should give me what I want. My brown ale started at 1.046 OG and I'm using Windsor yeast(rumored to be less attenuative and more fruity) at 66F. I wanted to mash at 156F for more unfermentable sugars but I got 153F. I think that should be pretty solid though. I will report my results. The air lock is bubbling away after less then 12 hr and it smells pretty good.

PS. I have a mead (MAOM) that is 2 weeks in to a 2 month ferment. I used the Oregon combo berry. I tasted the leftover pulp from the honey/fruit pasteurization and it had great flavor.

 

[nate_ive]

m

 

[bigbeergeek]

What about adding campden tablets to the beer after fermentation is complete (killing the yeast), then adding the fruit (primary, secondary, who cares?), then force carbing and bottling with your Blichmann bottle filler?

 

[nate_ive]

Wow, that was fast. Primary fermentaion is already done. The krausen has fallen. I'm going to let it sit for another 12 days then bottle.

 

[Stardust]

So most of you fruit beer brewers are leaving your beer on the fruit for ~10-14 days in a secondary? I've got a Belgian strong ale that I racked onto 6.6 lbs cherry puree about 3 weeks ago. The ABV% was 14% at transfer to carboy. I added a different strain of yeast to dry it out a bit more as it was still too sweet. There is activity still going on in the carboy (imagine that after adding yeast and fruit ) and I will be probably leave it another 2-3 weeks before moving to tertiary for clearing.

This is my second fruit beer. I put the fruit in the primary the first time, and I did not care for the final product although my friends tell me they liked it (go figure...free beer)

 

[nate_ive]

I took a sample of my brown ale tonight. It has a specific gravity of 1.020(OG of 1.046 @ 65F). So the brown ale is about 3.5% ABV -- 56% attenuation - windsor yeast. It tastes really good -- I was hoping for more of a malty flavor -- I have what is probably a brown English mild. I'm pleased so far. I'm going to give it another week then bottle with the raspberry syrup. Although there is no green beer taste, so maybe there is no reason to wait to bottle...anyone with an opinion on this?

 

[ShaggyDogBrewing]

I played through this debate and read tons of fruit addition posts when trying to make a frambozen esq beer, I opted to use European Ale Yeast to Help the Malt stand up against the Fruit. The first time I steeped grains and made a 5 gallon batch of brown ale, pitched and let it go for 4-5 days then I added about 2lbs of fresh frozen raspberries that were shaken and refrigerated in a ziplock with a half campden tab for 24 hrs to the primary carboy. After 10 days I racked to a secondary carboy and let it clear for a few weeks before keg conditioning for 2 (I got impatient).

Other than completely throwing off my liquid measurements and losing some beer,as i didn't think my plan all the way through, the beer was delicious, the malt was able to stand its own against the fruit.

It is a pain to rack in between the fruit and the trub though.

I tried a slightly different process to fix volume a few week ago, if you want to check it out find Kasey's Framboozled in the recipies. I'll let you know how it turns out, it gets racked Sunday

 

[nate_ive]

I bottled half the brown ale with the Oregon raspberry syrup and the other half with inverted sugar syrup yesterday. The leftover flat frambozen tasted really good, the raspberry flavor is at a level I like --- very balanced with the mild brown ale's malt/carmel character. Now it just depends on how the bottle conditioning/carbonation affects the beer. I will post my results in a week or two. So far, the beer from this attempt is way better then my first frambozen attempt.

 

[nate_ive]

I tasted the frambozen yesterday. It has carbonated up, but only has a hint of raspberry flavor. I like it, but I wouldn't call it a frambozen. The carbonation is low, I'm pretty sure I could have added the syrup from another can of Oregon fruit in syrup to the 2.5 gallons of brown ale to get more raspberry flavor and more carbonation with no bottle bomb issues. I'm going to try again in a few weeks with a much higher mash temp(160F for 75min) and Nottingham yeast.

 

[eightohhthree]

I brewed an American Wheat Beer, it has been fermenting in the primary for 2 weeks. After reading through this thread, I was thinking of steeping 2 lbs frozen blue berries in a mesh bag, then putting the mesh bag into my primary for a week. Im not looking for blue berry beer, just a nice undertone. Does anyone forsee any issues with this method?

 

[nate_ive]

If it is a blueberry undertone you want, you might want to consider bottling with the following. This is concentrated blueberry juice and is about 2.5lbs of blueberries. It has 18 gram of sugar per serving -- but it is 3 servings -- check this on the label. You get almost 54 grams of sugar which would be 1.9 oz of priming sugar -- this maybe low for a wheat beer priming, but some corn sugar in addition will fix that --- check some of the carbonation calculators on the web.

http://www.rwknudsenfamily.com/products/concentrates/blueberry/

 

[nate_ive]

This is my 3rd try at frambozen -- as chronicled in this thread. The 2nd attempt was good, but light in comparison to NB frambozen. My current plan is to brew the following recipe for 4 gallons of brown ale with a OG around 1.060.

6lb. Golden Promise
1lb. Belgian Aromatic
8oz Flaked oats
8oz Special B
4oz Crystal 15
2oz Crystal 45
2oz Crystal 70-80
2oz Crystal 155-165
3oz Pale Chocolate

0.5oz Williamette 4.8AA FWH
0.5oz Williamette 4.8AA @ 60min

Mash at 153F for 60 minutes

Ferment with Nottingham or Windsor for 2-3 weeks at 63F.

Bottle 3 gallons of the brown ale(no fruit). Rack the remaining 1 gallon of brown ale onto 2 lbs. of frozen raspberries for 2 weeks @63F. Bottle the 1 gallon of frambozen with 1 can of oregon raspberries in heavy syrup like I did with the 2nd attempt. I'm going for a big raspberry flavor to match the big crystal/chocolate/aromatic flavor.

 

[Annubis]

I found R.W. Knudsen juice concentrate in an 8oz bottle at Whole foods -- they have 4 flavors -- black cherry, blueberry, cranberry, and pomegrante. I bought a bottle of black cherry. The 8oz bottle says it is the equivalent to 2lbs of black cherries. Anyone use this before? I wish they had raspberry.

I am currently using their regular strength black cherry juice in (partial) place of spring water for a mead that I'm working on. I added it to primary, and will be racking onto frozen cherries when fermentation's done. I wanted a blend of fermented cherry flavor, as well as plain cherry flavor. I'll update this response when I rack (I'll take SG and taste-test), and after the batch is totally done.

 

[nate_ive]

I hit my mash temperatures. The boil was a little more vigorous, so I have somewhere between 3.5 and 4 gallons at 1.064. I had vigorous airlock activity the next day around noon, though there is no real krausen. Now it is wait and see were the FG ends at.

 

[BrewThruYou]

I just racked onto 5 cans of Oregon Blueberries. Not the puree for homebrewing, but the 15oz cans in light syrup in the grocery store. I drained most of the syrup out of the cans first. I also have the Blueberry Extract from my LHBS on hand. I have a feeling that I'll be adding a small amount of the extract since this brew is for the SWMBO and she wants a decent amount of blueberry flavoring.

We'll see how it turns out:

 

[Ma23456]

I just bottled a mango wheat Which I racked onto 5 lbs of frozen mangoes (walmart bought) and left in there for 23 days and I'm questionable it smelled like beer looked like beer.. Not a strong mango smell but then again.. Idk what mangoes really smell like .. And for the record it didnt look like a mango

 

[nate_ive]

Since there is no more airlock activity, I checked the gravity last night. It is down to 1.030 from 1.064. It tastes pretty good, but it is still cloudy. I upped the fermentation temp to 65. 2.5 weeks to go until the fruit!!!

 

[cyraxx]

If this batch doesn't turn out the way you'd like it, I'd suggest using the Oregon Raspberry Puree rather than the fruit in syrup. I think that the syrup would just add excess sugars that you wouldn't necessarily want in the beer, and the Puree has more of a full, bold fruit flavor than what you're using.

 

[nate_ive]

I will probably try the puree eventually. I have to get a rich brown ale recipe nailed down before I spend $18 on a 49oz. can of puree. That is way too much fruit for my 1 gallon spilt.

 

[ShaggyDogBrewing]

Just tapped my second go this morning. I usually only sample when racking so sorry it took so long to update. Raspberry is a little stronger than the first and not as malty but not super sweet by any means. This is the second time that I've had success using frozen berries (not in syrup) in water with a half of a camptden(sp) tablet for 24 hours, the second time i blended the mixture and I think that contributed to the increased berry flavor.

The volumes were also fixed this time by making a strong 4 gal batch and double pitching the English ale yeast then adding the gal of berries 4 or 5 days in after the initial fermentation has died down.

After catching up in the thread it sounds like picking a yeast that does not achieve a real low fg is the way to go. I for both batches I have ended up around ~1.016.

Good luck on your future attempts, I've enjoyed following along since our end goal seems similar

 

[nate_ive]

I added 1lb of cane sugar(with a little yeast nutrient) to my brown ale yesterday. The gravity reading I last took was 1.030(OG 1.064) which puts the batch at 4.5% ABV -- I was hoping for 6.1% ABV(FG 1.018). I didn't take another gravity reading to confirm that it was still 1.030. I don't think fermentation was stuck. I think the high percentage of specialty grains put a lot of less fermentable sugars in the wort. The airlock started bubbling a few hours later and was vigorously bubbling this morning. The cane sugar should add a little over 1% ABV more. Nottingham is supposed to be pretty aggressive, but I guess less fermentable sugar is still less fermentable sugar.

 

[BrewThruYou]

If this batch doesn't turn out the way you'd like it, I'd suggest using the Oregon Raspberry Puree rather than the fruit in syrup. I think that the syrup would just add excess sugars that you wouldn't necessarily want in the beer, and the Puree has more of a full, bold fruit flavor than what you're using.

Yeah, I'd rather have the puree...but it seems it's much harder to get. My LHBS didn't have it and it's expensive ordering online. I drained most of the syrup anyway.

 

[nate_ive]

Just tapped my second go this morning. I usually only sample when racking so sorry it took so long to update. Raspberry is a little stronger than the first and not as malty but not super sweet by any means. This is the second time that I've had success using frozen berries (not in syrup) in water with a half of a camptden(sp) tablet for 24 hours, the second time i blended the mixture and I think that contributed to the increased berry flavor.

The volumes were also fixed this time by making a strong 4 gal batch and double pitching the English ale yeast then adding the gal of berries 4 or 5 days in after the initial fermentation has died down.

After catching up in the thread it sounds like picking a yeast that does not achieve a real low fg is the way to go. I for both batches I have ended up around ~1.016.

Good luck on your future attempts, I've enjoyed following along since our end goal seems similar

Yeah, I think it is going to be a combination of higher mash temps, big dose of crystal malt-specialty malts, and a less aggressive yeast to get what I want. I'm drinking my 2nd frambozen attempt now and the raspberry flavor is blending better with a little age -- I like it, but it is very mild. My latest attempt is heavily influenced by the Surly Bender kit on NB minus the aggressive hopping. I picked up 10 oz of frozen organic raspberries from whole foods last night. I'm going to use all 10 oz with ~1 gallon of the brown ale. I will check the gravity this Saturday and taste it to determine if I want to let the brown ale age another week on the yeast cake.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

I recently tertiaried a blonde that I racked onto 12 lbs of frozen strawberries that I crushed. The aroma of the beer after being in the secondary for a week was like strawberry preserves, and the flavor was similar to unripe strawberries, not tart, but left a dry sort of feel to the mouth.

I drew a sample when racking to the tertiary vessel, and it has a funk now, a strange off flavor that all I can describe is odd at the end of the drink near the back of the throat, the flavor isn't on the tongue, but near the end at the swallow.

Anyhow, I have had a fellow brewer offer me a beer with this same strange flavor, and I have brewed a pumpkin ale as well that had this taste.

I was wondering if anyone else has had anything similiar, and could explain it? FWIW, this flavor is accentuated wiht a burp. It is most prominent when belching. This beer has been aging in the tertiary for about a week, and I added 2 tsp of pectin enzyme to help with the cloudiness of the beer.

I'm concerned about the flavor, and I am wondering if it is a bacterial infection of some sort?

Anyhow, any info/feedback would be appreciated.

 

[nate_ive]

I racked 1 gallon of the brown ale(fg of 1.023) yesterday onto 10oz of organic frozen raspberries and bottled the rest. The brown ale is fairly sweet. I crash cooled the 1 gallon with the raspberries to 38F and I'm going to leave it at that temp for the next two weeks. I'm going for a rich brown ale flavor with a big raspberry flavor.

 

[nate_ive]

I tasted the brown ale yesterday. It is getting better and is starting to exhibit the flavor I want. The crystal and aromatic malt flavors are starting to blend and mellow. It tastes much, much better then the previous bottle I sampled about 2 weeks ago which had a harsh aromatic malt profile. It is undercarbonated which also effects the perceived sweetness. The 1 gallon split is still on the raspberries. I will probably bottle this next week.

 

[nate_ive]

I just bottled the 1 gallon split. The raspberry pulp was tricky to handle so as to keep from clogging my unsophisticated bottling equipment. I have a whole new appreciation for New Belgium and their bottling operation for Frambozen. I have heard the brewers have to argue with the operation people over Frambozen because bottling it gums up their operation so badly.

I think the puree would be simpler on the bottling since you can mostly avoid it as it should settle to the bottom -- some of the whole raspberries float while some of it sinks so you have to interfaces to pay attention to.

 

[nate_ive]

I tasted the "surly bender influenced brown ale" again tonight, this is the base ale of my 3rd attempt at frambozen. The raisin flavor is too much. It may mellow after an extended conditioning, but that seems like the difficult way of achieving a frambozen.

I think I would eliminate the special B and the simpsons extra dark crystal 155-165L to eliminate the raisin flavor. I would replace them with the medium (~40 lovibond) crystal malts instead, or a medium caramel malt. I will return to my frambozen experiment in the fall. My current interest has switched to summer seasonals for the time being --- I bottled a kolsch(it has some diacetyl), last week, my blonde ale is fermenting now, and I'm planning a pale mild and an IPA. The variety of styles makes beer a great experiment!!!! Thanks for everyone's input, I appreciate it!!!