I want a really strong carmel flavor in a brew. I guess I'm wondering what grains or combination of grains will give me the most flavor you'd get with actual carmel. Would using actual carmels or carmel syrup in the boil or post-fermentation be the route to take?
Actual Caramel Flavor?
- Thread starter barrooze
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shauntraxler
Well-Known Member
Caramel flavor is a hard thing to achieve in beer because caramel is really only reduced sugar water. We all know that sugar is fully fermentable so maintaining that flavor through to the end is nearly impossible with caramel or caramel syrup.
What you may want to try is making an amber candi syrup and adding that to the boil. I guess it will add a pretty decent aroma and subtle flavor. Furthermore, if you're looking for a sweet beer, add a bit of lactose. 1lb in the boil should do the job. Lastly, I would add a smidge of vanilla to the secondary. Vanilla always performs fantastically as a supporting role in sweet beers, especially with caramel.
What you may want to try is making an amber candi syrup and adding that to the boil. I guess it will add a pretty decent aroma and subtle flavor. Furthermore, if you're looking for a sweet beer, add a bit of lactose. 1lb in the boil should do the job. Lastly, I would add a smidge of vanilla to the secondary. Vanilla always performs fantastically as a supporting role in sweet beers, especially with caramel.
shauntraxler
Well-Known Member
apparently they're interchangeable.
Germey
Well-Known Member
They are the exact same thing. Different people have historically used the different names. Caramel/ Crystal malt can add some caramel flavor. Also, very long boils at high heat can add a "kettle caramelization" to a beer. Even if you go past your target OG, you can always add water at the end.
OP
OP
barrooze
Well-Known Member
Hmm.. I should probably add melanoidin malt to increase that "kettle caramelization". So at least a 90 minute boil and add melanoidin malt to grist. Have you guys found that crystal 40 is more carmelly than crystal 80? or maybe I add maybe 0.5 lb of 40, 60, 80, melanoidin to get a carmelly flavor...
shauntraxler
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't get too dark in the crystal range. I mean, I suppose it really depends on what style of beer you're brewing. Are you brewing an amber, pale, stout, porter etc?
This would help me help you.
This would help me help you.
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barrooze
Well-Known Member
I'm going to try to make a "caramel macchiato stout" where I'll take a milk stout, add the grains for the caramel flavor to the grist, and then add some brewed espresso to the fermented beer. I got the idea while driving to work and thought, why the hell not?! It'll be an interesting experiment.
shauntraxler
Well-Known Member
Thats a great idea. I will definitely be looking back here from time to time.
In order to achieve that profile, you're going to need a LOT of caramel. I would recommend doing EVERYTHING you can to get a caramel-like sweetness. Crystal malts (low Lovibond, 40L probably), candi syrup, melanoidin, and even extract at bottling time. The biggest issue I forsee is the bitterness of the espresso is going to be VERY hard to overcome unless you can really load up on the caramel.
In order to achieve that profile, you're going to need a LOT of caramel. I would recommend doing EVERYTHING you can to get a caramel-like sweetness. Crystal malts (low Lovibond, 40L probably), candi syrup, melanoidin, and even extract at bottling time. The biggest issue I forsee is the bitterness of the espresso is going to be VERY hard to overcome unless you can really load up on the caramel.
I read somewhere that caramelizing sugar can help to keep some of it unfermented because the sugar gets oxidized and is less or not fermentable. Again, I read this, grain of salt.
But ill try to find something
Edit:
Okay, here is some poop:
http://www.brewlikeamonk.com/?p=28
BLAM clears up some of the confusion around candi sugar and talks about how real candi sugar, the caramelized brown stuff, is specifically used because it imparts that character into the beer.
and more from the homefront:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/add-some-flavor-your-beer-caramelized-sugar-135672/
But ill try to find something
Edit:
Okay, here is some poop:
http://www.brewlikeamonk.com/?p=28
BLAM clears up some of the confusion around candi sugar and talks about how real candi sugar, the caramelized brown stuff, is specifically used because it imparts that character into the beer.
and more from the homefront:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/add-some-flavor-your-beer-caramelized-sugar-135672/
badhabit
Well-Known Member
Great thread and interesting question. I have worked a little over a year on the same question/problem with an APA. For me a part of the issue was also that I didn't want the final brew to be too dark. I have messed around with the crystal malts and end up convinced that a 30/40L crystal will give me the best near carmel flavor. I have carmelized some wort in the past, not by design, and believe that the idea of carmelizing in the boil may be a very good one. I think that I will give a long high temp boil a try and then get a little careless about stiring the boil kettle for the last 5 minutes or so. Worth a try I guess.
Sorry to resurrect, how'd this concept turn out? I've been toying with the same idea and dealing with the same frustration. (finding a way to get caramel flavor to come out.) I've had a couple ideas, including killing the yeasties and back-sweatening but I think it'll be too sweet/ cloying. Thoughts/ results? Thanks!
