Achieving a silky/pillowy/creamy mouthfeel (a la Hill Farmstead)?

[wobrien]

TH looks like they brew a lot of Belgian beers too. I'm assuming all their other beers exhibit this mouthfeel too?

Yes, very similar brewing style among most of their beers.

 

[ATXWolfBrew]

There is a close connection with TH and HF for sure. Jean from TH does love using a lot of oats and a lot of wheat in his beers though...no secret here, as you can see the tap updates on twitter/instagram. This definitely gives his beers a very unique flavor profile, mouthfeel, etc. Being another world-class brewer helps as well. I am sure water an pH is closely controlled throughout the process as well.

Also, Jean was once using the same or similar yeast blend from a "friend from Vermont." Now, I think TH has their own house culture for most beers, but they definitely use some HF cultures for their barrel aged stuff. This has been discussed in other threads as well.

 

[The_Glue]

I went through that other thread and some related blog posts and it seemed like that as long as you used 1318 you got that mouthfeel regardless of cl/so4 ratio.

I wonder if there is something similar in dried yeast, mangroove jacks have 3-4 english strains, there is also notty, s04, lallemand windsor ale.

 

[mosaicbrewer]

I went through that other thread and some related blog posts and it seemed like that as long as you used 1318 you got that mouthfeel regardless of cl/so4 ratio.

I wonder if there is something similar in dried yeast, mangroove jacks have 3-4 english strains, there is also notty, s04, lallemand windsor ale.

Great question. I have tried everything listed above and more as a substitute as I make 15 gallon plus batches and starters for that are time consuming. I had high hopes for windsor, but it just leaves too much of and "english" character. I just did a beer with mangrove jacks burton union yeas and actually think i may be the best candidate so far. It is force carbing right now. I can report back later this week. RE: 1318, I have no idea why they give this yeast a fairly high floc rating. It never comes down! I am very curious how much of that mothfeel is from the yeast as well.

 

[leesmith]

I think yeast in suspension is one factor leading to that mouthfeel.

I've been sitting on a keg of a Mosaic DIPA that has started to clear (1318) and its flavor has changed.

The last DIPA I made with San Diego super yeast was so different when young and hazy from yeast (I preferred it better)...once it cleared up it was a good beer but different.

 

[leesmith]

Maybe that's why Shaun keeps a tight control over his distribution...to make sure his beers stay fresh. In this case part of being fresh means the yeast are still in suspension...

 

[J343MY]

It has been touched on a bit in this thread so far, but I think the importance of flaked something (most likely oats) is being overlooked a little bit. There is just no way you get haze like that, that sticks around without flaked oats, barley, etc. And obviously flaked grains are going to contribute to that soft mouth-feel that everyone is looking for. Just because the website doesn't mention a flaked grain, it doesn't mean that there isn't one. There is no reason why he couldn't just leave that part out.

Here is an APA i made recently. 12% flaked barley, and only whirlfloc for clarification:

 

[mosaicbrewer]

It has been touched on a bit in this thread so far, but I think the importance of flaked something (most likely oats) is being overlooked a little bit. There is just no way you get haze like that, that sticks around without flaked oats, barley, etc. And obviously flaked grains are going to contribute to that soft mouth-feel that everyone is looking for. Just because the website doesn't mention a flaked grain, it doesn't mean that there isn't one. There is no reason why he couldn't just leave that part out.

Here is an APA i made recently. 12% flaked barley, and only whirlfloc for clarification:



first off, nice looking beer, but I have no problem achieving that look with pale, caramel and 1318. It actually looks like orange juice. Part of it may be hop haze. I am up to 1# per 5 gallons. It literally never clears and looks like orange juice in a good way. I will post a pic of my upcoming citra pale ale in a week or two

 

[Braufessor]

It has been touched on a bit in this thread so far, but I think the importance of flaked something (most likely oats) is being overlooked a little bit. There is just no way you get haze like that, that sticks around without flaked oats, barley, etc. And obviously flaked grains are going to contribute to that soft mouth-feel that everyone is looking for. Just because the website doesn't mention a flaked grain, it doesn't mean that there isn't one. There is no reason why he couldn't just leave that part out.

Here is an APA i made recently. 12% flaked barley, and only whirlfloc for clarification:

LOVE hoppy beers that look like orange juice!

 

[hopsandhops]

Subscribed.

I ordered some 1318 for my next brew. Is there any agreement on the best fermentation temps?

 

[mosaicbrewer]

Subscribed.

I ordered some 1318 for my next brew. Is there any agreement on the best fermentation temps?

I started low, but its slow to finish. I did my last batch at 74 and think it tastes great?!

 

[Braufessor]

It has been touched on a bit in this thread so far, but I think the importance of flaked something (most likely oats) is being overlooked a little bit. There is just no way you get haze like that, that sticks around without flaked oats, barley, etc. And obviously flaked grains are going to contribute to that soft mouth-feel that everyone is looking for. Just because the website doesn't mention a flaked grain, it doesn't mean that there isn't one. There is no reason why he couldn't just leave that part out.

Here is an APA i made recently. 12% flaked barley, and only whirlfloc for clarification:

Hey @J343MY, Can I ask what your grain bill was for this beer (%of each grain)? That is one beautiful beer and would like to shoot for that in my next batch. Thanks.

 

[J343MY]

Hey @J343MY, Can I ask what your grain bill was for this beer (%of each grain)? That is one beautiful beer and would like to shoot for that in my next batch. Thanks.

85% 2-row
12% flaked barley
3% thomas fawcett amber malt

Beersmith calcualtes the colour to be 5.8 SRM.

 

[Colbizle]

yeast is key. SO4/CL is still very much a factor in mouthfeel sans adjuncts.

 

[Colbizle]

I'm not saying you can't get HF type mouthfeel with adjuncts but HF is not using adjuncts in his beers.

 

[J343MY]

I'm not saying you can't get HF type mouthfeel with adjuncts but HF is not using adjuncts in his beers.

based on what, exactly?

 

[Colbizle]

based on what, exactly?

Read the thread. There's more involved then just the use of adjuncts. Mash ph and final beer ph, yeast strain, final gravity, and water chemistry.

 

[Colbizle]

I started low, but its slow to finish. I did my last batch at 74 and think it tastes great?!

Mosaic, my strong ale was 68 throughout . Diactyle rest at 70. You're right, clean but fruity. I think lower throws more esters.

 

[lowtones84]

Read the thread. There's more involved then just the use of adjuncts. Mash ph and final beer ph, yeast strain, final gravity, and water chemistry.

I totally hear you and understand that feel comes from more than adjuncts, but who is to say that they're not present at least to some small degree? You would either have to be a phenomenal supertaster or observe the brewing in person to say that they weren't used in at least the 5%ish range.

I think we've come to the conclusion that adjuncts aren't the main source of what we're tracking down, and I understand that, but if you're saying that it's not a part of it might be discounting a significant aspect.

Or you could be 100% correct, I really have no clue

 

[J343MY]

Read the thread. There's more involved then just the use of adjuncts. Mash ph and final beer ph, yeast strain, final gravity, and water chemistry.

So based on nothing. Ok.

I don't think anyone in this thread who has suggested that he may be using something like flaked oats had said that it's just as simple as that. But rather, it's one piece of the puzzle. Just like pH, water treatment, gravity, carbonation level, etc. All important factors.

 

[mosaicbrewer]

So based on nothing. Ok.

I don't think anyone in this thread who has suggested that he may be using something like flaked oats had said that it's just as simple as that. But rather, it's one piece of the puzzle. Just like pH, water treatment, gravity, carbonation level, etc. All important factors.

his website: and actually he does use some adjunct, dextrose.

Edward,13.5ºP, 85 ibus, 5.2% abv. Pale and Caramel malt; Centennial, Chinook, Columbus, Simcoe, and Warrior hops; House Ale Yeast, and our Well Water.

Abner, 8%, 18.5º P, 170 Theoretical ibus. Ingredients: Pale and Caramel Malt; Dextrose; Centennial, Chinook, Columbus, Simcoe, and Warrior hops; Ale Yeast, and our Well Water.

Ephraim, 9.6%. Ingredients: Pale Malt; Dextrose; Centennial, Chinook, Columbus, Simcoe, and Warrior hops, Ale Yeast, and Water.

Notice a trend? IMO his base pale ale/ipas call them session/double/triple are based on very much the same principles with dextrose helping to lighten up and dry out the bigger beers, he also drops caramel on the biggest one. I am pretty sure the grain bill and stats carry over to the single hop singe and doubles, meaning citra and double citra etc.

 

[Colbizle]

So based on nothing. Ok.

I don't think anyone in this thread who has suggested that he may be using something like flaked oats had said that it's just as simple as that. But rather, it's one piece of the puzzle. Just like pH, water treatment, gravity, carbonation level, etc. All important factors.

Of course not! I never claimed that. In my opinion I don't think he's using adjuncts like that. This has all been discussed before earlier in the thread is what I'm trying to say.

 

[Colbizle]

I totally hear you and understand that feel comes from more than adjuncts, but who is to say that they're not present at least to some small degree? You would either have to be a phenomenal supertaster or observe the brewing in person to say that they weren't used in at least the 5%ish range.

I think we've come to the conclusion that adjuncts aren't the main source of what we're tracking down, and I understand that, but if you're saying that it's not a part of it might be discounting a significant aspect.

Or you could be 100% correct, I really have no clue

You're right, we don't know, but that's what experimenting is for and I could be completely wrong too!

So far my in own experiments, I'm getting close to that mouthfeel without the use of adjuncts though.

 

[J343MY]

his website: and actually he does use some adjunct, dextrose.

Edward,13.5ºP, 85 ibus, 5.2% abv. Pale and Caramel malt; Centennial, Chinook, Columbus, Simcoe, and Warrior hops; House Ale Yeast, and our Well Water.

Abner, 8%, 18.5º P, 170 Theoretical ibus. Ingredients: Pale and Caramel Malt; Dextrose; Centennial, Chinook, Columbus, Simcoe, and Warrior hops; Ale Yeast, and our Well Water.

Ephraim, 9.6%. Ingredients: Pale Malt; Dextrose; Centennial, Chinook, Columbus, Simcoe, and Warrior hops, Ale Yeast, and Water.

Notice a trend? IMO his base pale ale/ipas call them session/double/triple are based on very much the same principles with dextrose helping to lighten up and dry out the bigger beers, he also drops caramel on the biggest one. I am pretty sure the grain bill and stats carry over to the single hop singe and doubles, meaning citra and double citra etc.

I really don't think his website is the be-all and end-all of what goes into his beers. Shaun is notoriously pretty secretive, so it really wouldn't surprise me if something happened to be left out.

 

[J343MY]

Of course not! I never claimed that. In my opinion I don't think he's using adjuncts like that. This has all been discussed before earlier in the thread is what I'm trying to say.

Ok, so in your opinion he isn't using adjuncts like that. Thats fine. Your previous reply stated it as a fact, which it isn't. I have read through the whole thread, and there is only speculation.

All I was saying is that based on my experiences, my opinion is that he is probably using flaked oats.

 

[Colbizle]

Ok, so in your opinion he isn't using adjuncts like that. Thats fine. Your previous reply stated it as a fact, which it isn't. I have read through the whole thread, and there is only speculation.

All I was saying is that based on my experiences, my opinion is that he is probably using flaked oats.

Ah... My bad, I did sound like I was stating a fact.. I didn't mean it to come off that way.

 

[J343MY]

Ah... My bad, I did sound like I was stating a fact.. I didn't mean it to come off that way.

Don't worry, its all good.

 

[mosaicbrewer]

95-96% 2row and pale ale rahr if possibe
4-5% light crystal (I have been using briess 10)
1318

that late hopping, and a calcium heavy, but low sulfate water profile will get you there. I may share a very close citra single hop pale clone recipe soon. I have drank my clone side by side with his beer, with some serious HF fans, and everyone agreed they were 95% the same, mine had a little less malt flavor, and a stronger nose. I have another batch being dry hopped right now trying to dial it in more.

 

[Colbizle]

95% 2row/pale ale rahr
5% crystal 10
1318

that late hopping, and a calcium heavy, but low sulfate water profile will get you there. I may share a very close citra single hop pale clone recipe soon. I have drank my clone side by side with his beer, with some serious HF fans, and everyone agreed they were 95% the same, mine had a little less malt flavor, and a stronger nose. I have another batch being dry hopped right now trying to dial it in more.

calcium heavy? or do you mean chloride?

 

[mosaicbrewer]

calcium heavy? or do you mean chloride?

both in a way, so as he hinted long ago using some calcium chloride and some gypsum will work. Both are part calcium and I really thing the overall level of calcium and minerals is part of the total mouthfeel equation. If you go too far with the chloride, it gets salty IMO