Accuflex Ultra 235 vs Kegland EVA barrier

[Rikk]

I have 5.5 feet of 4mm and have Perlick Flow control and without. The ones with foam on first pour because of the mass. And let them rip and don’t “flow control” them unless it’s a special circumstance. Think of FC as emergency use only.

 

[LBussy]

^^^^ that. Flow control is less effective than a longer line.

 

[kxavier_23]

Sorry, but I should have explained I didn’t install flow controls, but had them from my old setup and lines.

Sorry I don’t quite get this, but it I want to slow the beer, add longer lines? I inferred that after watching that Kegco video where they explained that the beer loses pressure as it moves through the lines.

 

[LBussy]

Yes. A longer line will lower the pressure and slow the flow in a way that minimizes foaming.

 

[kxavier_23]

I thought I'd drop a little EVA-Barrier pr0n in here since I got off my @$$ and did something this past weekend:

Here's a shot of my primary + triple secondary. I was happy to see I could get three of these lines into the hole in the back that previously only allowed one line. Also notice the highly custom 3-D printed bracket for the regulator. Hopefully it holds up to the summer heat in the garage.

View attachment 700673

And here is the box showing my cold-air blower tube + my highly customized return air ducting. The taps would have been easier if they were longer, but I was able to pull it off.

View attachment 700674

Here you can see the three CO2 lines coming in the left side through that tiny hole. A few temp sensors because .. duh, beer geek! Then of course the tower air blower + a good recirc fan to keep stagnation down. I was going to retouch my pic to hide the mess at the bottom - but you have all seen the bottom of kegerators before.

View attachment 700675

I did notice after that I forgot to insert the backflow preventers, but that's just a "snip and slide" affair.

What backflow valves are you using?

 

[LBussy]

What backflow valves are you using?

Duotight Push-In Fitting - 8 mm (5/16 in.) Check ValveMoreBeer.com $3.49

 

[kxavier_23]

View attachment 706656
Duotight Push-In Fitting - 8 mm (5/16 in.) Check ValveMoreBeer.com $3.49

I do have an issue with kegs that are not tapped, but I keep them on CO2, with beer back flowing into the CO2 line. Where do you typically place these? I use a gas distribution block. Closer to the keg fitting or the distribution? I am leaning closer to the keg quick connect so less line gets beer in it.

 

[LBussy]

I do have an issue with kegs that are not tapped, but I keep them on CO2, with beer back flowing into the CO2 line. Where do you typically place these? I use a gas distribution block. Closer to the keg fitting or the distribution? I am leaning closer to the keg quick connect so less line gets beer in it.

Beer won't go past them, so put them where you don't want beer going. Actually it should prevent the entire line from filling since there's nowhere for it to escape.

I wonder though if you don't have a leak somewhere. If you are getting beer back, the keg is a higher pressure than the regulator. Seems like you could just leave the keg without gas in that case?

 

[kxavier_23]

Beer won't go past them, so put them where you don't want beer going. Actually it should prevent the entire line from filling since there's nowhere for it to escape.

I wonder though if you don't have a leak somewhere. If you are getting beer back, the keg is a higher pressure than the regulator. Seems like you could just leave the keg without gas in that case?

I observed what is going on. I have been brewing 10G batches. I put one on the tap and both on gas to keep the spare carbonated. When I make longer pours (filling a mini keg), there seems to be just enough of a pressure drop in my gas side to allow a little beer to be draw back into the gas line. The reason this happens is because I close transfer from my unitank into my kegs until beer comes out the gas post (beer pressure transferring into the keg through the beer side and I vent the gas line into a bucket of StarSan).

 

[szwab]

Anyone know who manufactures EVAbarrier. I’ve only been able to find it through homebrew shops. Anyone find it for sale anywhere else?

 

[day_trippr]

Somehow Kegland and Keg-King in Australia are tied into EVAbarrier (aka "EVAfresh", apparently).
Clearly they aren't making it themselves so they're sourcing it from somewhere...

Cheers!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I can't imagine there's that many people making it, may well be someone like Valpar in Northern Ireland (now part of Micro Matic, a Danish company whose main business is things like keg spears).

 

[Vale71]

Anyone know who manufactures EVAbarrier. I’ve only been able to find it through homebrew shops. Anyone find it for sale anywhere else?

China, where everything is manufactured these days. Look for it on AliXpress.

 

[szwab]

I was just hoping to find it locally or at a non specialized shop.

 

[day_trippr]

That's probably a long shot - unlike venerable stuff like Bevlex 200 (the industry standard solid PVC beer line for like forever) EVAbarrier is still new and likely under tight distribution.
But I've bought 5 (maybe 6) 10 meter rolls to date on-line and aside from one eff-up by morebeer.com didn't have to wait more than a handful of days...

Cheers!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I was just hoping to find it locally or at a non specialized shop.

The US is ahead of the UK when it comes to kegging at homebrew level, but just to give you an idea, AFAIA there's only one homebrew source in the whole of the UK (Malt Miller) for "fancy" beer lines like Brewmaster and Gen-X.

It's a combination of a lack of awareness and hence demand among customers that there's anything better than MDP which is the norm here (at least it's better than PVC), and brutal minimum order quantities that require retailers to buy a couple of miles of the specialist line at a time, so they're tying up a lot of money in stock.

So you may be lucky - as I say, this is one area where the US is generally well ahead of the UK - but be prepared to have to hunt for it.

 

[LBussy]

https://www.freshwatersystems.com/p...-connector-cone-type-5-16-push-in-x-3-8-bsp-p
This is the site I used and which others have referenced many times on HBT. Not certain if this meets your definition of reasonable price.

So I know I wrote this down before, and I was sure it was in this thread, but I cannot find it.

Those fittings have a "collar" inside and the Swiss Flow need a smaller or no collar inside, like a flat fitting would be best (like a garden hose) instead of the O-ring. Does anyone know the term I should be looking for?

 

[day_trippr]

Seriously? Again?
You need a coupler, 3/8" BSP to 5/16" OD, or 3/8" BSP to 8mm OD
I used DMFit AFAB0506C from freshwaterfittings.com

https://www.freshwatersystems.com/p...-connector-cone-type-5-16-push-in-x-3-8-bsp-p
Cheers!

 

[LBussy]

Seriously? Again?
You need a coupler, 3/8" BSP to 5/16" OD, or 3/8" BSP to 8mm OD
I used DMFit AFAB0506C from freshwaterfittings.com

Yes, still (not "again" )

That fitting is what I have but there's a "cone" inside that makes it not a perfect fit. It will sort of go sideways and sometimes crack if tightened too far. What it needs is a flat surface on which to seal.

 

[IslandLizard]

That fitting is what I have but there's a "cone" inside that makes it not a perfect fit.

AFAIK, the "cone" type fitting is the wrong kind. It won't match (or seal) the flat side of the shank.

You want something like FW Systems cat. #843483 (JG)

[EDIT] Oops, I just gathered you need to connect to Swiss Flows, not shanks. But you probably need cone-less connectors for those too.

 

[LBussy]

AFAIK, the "cone" type fitting is the wrong kind. It won't match (or seal) the flat side of the shank.

You want something like FW Systems cat. #843483 (JG)

[EDIT] Oops, I just gathered you need to connect to Swiss Flows, not shanks. But you probably need cone-less connectors for those too.

Right, 3/8" BSPP with cone-less connectors.

If you mean Fresh Water Systems, I don't see anything on their web page with that part number.

 

[IslandLizard]

Right, 3/8" BSPP with cone-less connectors.

If you mean Fresh Water Systems, I don't see anything on their web page with that part number.

Sorry, that was the RiteBrew cat#.

Here's FreshWater's:
PI451015FS - John Guest Adapter - 5/16" to 5/8" BSPP

 

[LBussy]

Sorry, that was the RiteBrew cat#.

Here's FreshWater's:
PI451015FS - John Guest Adapter - 5/16" to 5/8" BSPP

Yep, I have a whole bag of those somewhere I can't use. The Swiss Flow are 3/8" BSPP. I'm not sure John Guest makes the same thing in 3/8 BSPP x 5/16 PTC

 

[LBussy]

From what part number I was able to find the following "Female Adaptor – BSP Thread – Flat End" on John Guest's website:

Part No.	TUBE OD	THREAD BSP
PI451014FS	5/16"	1/2"
PI451015FS	5/16"	5/8"
PI451213S	3/8"	3/8"
PI451214FS	3/8"	1/2"
PI451215FS	3/8"	5/8"
PI451613S	1/2"	3/8"
PI451615FS	1/2"	5/8"

So, no 3/8" x 5/16" available. Maybe I can find a 1/2" or 5/8" x 3/8" bushing?

 

[IslandLizard]

Yep, I have a whole bag of those somewhere I can't use. The Swiss Flow are 3/8" BSPP. I'm not sure John Guest makes the same thing in 3/8 BSPP x 5/16 PTC

Yeah, that could be the problem. The only one I see is 3/8" BSPP to 3/8" PTC, not 5/16":
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/p...er-bspp-3-8-x-3-8-bspp?variant=37902515830968

 

[LBussy]

The larger EVABarrier tubing is 9.5mm or ~3/8" so I could always get a small stub of the larger stuff and a reducer to get back to the 8mm. Or am I missing something?

 

[IslandLizard]

The larger EVABarrier tubing is 9.5mm or ~3/8" so I could always get a small stub of the larger stuff and a reducer to get back to the 8mm. Or am I missing something?

That would make a nice workaround, you're missing nothing, IMO.

I'd put all that hardware and reducers near the keg, so the restriction in the (narrow) 4mm EVA line will balance the pressure and should prevent CO2 coming out of solution to prevent foaming while keeping the carbonation level.

 

[LBussy]

It's a kegerator so not a lot of room, but having a slightly longer run with the larger diameter and horizontal will help with the ghost pour issues.

Just irks me that I have so many pieces at this point that don't work.

 

[doug293cz]

It's a kegerator so not a lot of room, but having a slightly longer run with the larger diameter and horizontal will help with the ghost pour issues.

Just irks me that I have so many pieces at this point that don't work.

What's a "ghost pour"? Not heard of that.

Brew on

 

[LBussy]

What's a "ghost pour"? Not heard of that.

That's when rising bubbles trigger a pour on the flowmeter. It's a bigger issue with sensitive meters (Swiss Flow) and vertical runs.

 

[doug293cz]

That's when rising bubbles trigger a pour on the flowmeter. It's a bigger issue with sensitive meters (Swiss Flow) and vertical runs.

Thanks.

Brew on

 

[day_trippr]

For the record I have had 12 of those DMfit AFAB0506C cone end couplers on my six SF800s for over 18 months now.
Zero issues. And I've been regularly kicking kegs within a few ounces either side of prediction (check out the 'Pints thread).

So you can chase your unicorn or just use what I used...

Cheers!

 

[LBussy]

So I sent an email to Freshwater Systems. Generally, they are pretty helpful but this is what I got back

Good morning Lee,

Please see the following link for our fittings that could potentially work for you project:

Fittings

(hint, it's a link to a page searched with the following criteria: Push-In, Size 5/16 OD, Connection Type Female FPT)

For the record I have had 12 of those DMfit AFAB0506C cone end couplers on my six SF800s for over 18 months now.
Zero issues. And I've been regularly kicking kegs within a few ounces either side of prediction (check out the 'Pints thread).

So you can chase your unicorn or just use what I used...

Have we met?!

I'm concerned for the longer-term potential issues, and honestly, looking for "what's right." I mean, look at my sig ....

 

[day_trippr]

I see zero fittings that would work at that linked page.
The SF800 threads are definitely 3/8 BSP, a tapered thread, while the part I'm using is 3/8 BSPP - parallel thread.

JohnGuest has a 3/8" BSP to 8mm OD push-in

PM450813E

8mm

3/8"

https://www.johnguest.com/product/metric-size-threaded-fittings/female-adaptor-2/
When I did my build I could not find that part in less than 100 packs direct from the factory.
Now I see you can buy them in 10-lots on Amazon...

https://www.amazon.com/John-Guest-PM450813E-Female-Connector/dp/B00N4O3J16
Cheers!

 

[LBussy]

I see zero fittings that would work at that linked page.

Hence, my chagrin at their response.

The SF800 threads are definitely 3/8 BSP, a tapered thread

See, I thought they were BSPP (parallel), i.e. not tapered.

the part I'm using is 3/8 BSPP - parallel thread.

When I did my build I could not find that part in less than 100 packs direct from the factory.
Now I see you can buy them in 10-lots on Amazon...

It might be worth grabbing a bag - but I just ordered the 3/8 x 3/8 and the reducer.

ETA: What the hell, I just ordered a bag. It won't be the biggest waste of money I've ever made.

 

[duncan.brown]

@LBussy if it helps, DM me and I'll mail you a length of Bev Seal Ultra 235 3/8" OD. Then you can use JG 3/8 BSPP to 3/8 OD to a short length of 3/8" tube to the JG 3/8" to 5/16" reducer.

 

[duncan.brown]

Just checked and the JGs that connect to my Swiss Flows are definitely flat type, not cone type. I guess @day_trippr has had better luck making the seal with the cone type...

 

[LBussy]

if it helps, DM me and I'll mail you a length of Bev Seal Ultra 235 3/8" OD

I appreciate the offer, sir. I had them put 10' of it in the last order so I think I'm good there.

Just checked and the JGs that connect to my Swiss Flows are definitely flat type, not cone type.

Huh. Do you know the PNs?

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, having not used PM450813E I don't know what type of backside the threaded section has. I'm interested to find out from Lee
It is the only female 3/8" BSP to 8MM or 5/16 OD tubing fitting in the JG catalog.

I just noticed that Amazon link went from four bags on hand to 1. Someone else out there?

Cheers!

 

[duncan.brown]

Do you know the PNs?

I believe they are PI451213S 3/8" OD to 3/8" BSP thread flat end. Confusingly the online catalog describes them as "BSP thread - flat end"

https://www.johnguest.com/product/inch-size-threaded-fittings/female-adaptor-bsp-thread-flat-end/
whereas the PDF catalog describes them (more correctly) as "BSPP thread - flat end."

(For people discovering this thread in the future, the BSP stands for "Her Majesty's royal pipe thread, gord bless her" and the P stands for "parallel" (as opposed to T for "tapered"). P needs a washer, and the JG fittings come with one. BSPP cone and BSPP flat are definitely different fittings, as cone has a 60 degree taper.)

Pictures below. I pulled out the o-ring from one of my spare connectors so you can see that the sealing surface behind the o-ring is flat. The SF800 is flat; there's no cone.