accounting for hop water absorption, when to add?

[KyleWolf]

hey everyone, so I am finally starting on my journey of leaf hop over pellets. I understand that leaf hops can absorb (the number varies according to who you ask or what phase the moon is in ) between 1-2pts per oz of hops. If you are doing something with a lot of leaf hop, that can cause serious issues. To combat this of course we add extra water, but do you add the extra to the mash? sparge?...boil perhaps? Or should I also just increase my batch size in my calculator to account for hop absorption and purchase extra grain too so it wont effect my gravity?
(as I am unsure whether or not leaf would absorb the sugars with the water or through osmosis/diffusion, leave the sugar in the wort, it is probably better to be safe than sorry).

Sorry if the post is confusing. I look forward to your thoughts though!

Kyle

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

If you use software you account for that loss as a trub loss and the system will add the needed extra volume to the total water.

Basically it needs to be accounted for through the mash as just adding to the kettle would serve only to dilute the pre or post-boil wort

 

[Dog House Brew]

I figure .38qt per ounce absorption for whole hops. I just figure it into my trub loss. works out really well when doing a big IIPA.

 

[Bigscience]

You have to work your way backwards. Start with how much you want to go into the fermentor and add any kettle dead volume, shrinkage, evaporation and the hop loss. This will give your start of the boil volume. If your all grain, you know what your run off will be based on the lauter loss and grain absorbtion. The rest is added by the sparge (or to the kettle or fermentor if doing a partial boil).

 

[ChemE]

I measured 0.146 quarts/ounce here: Leaf Hop Absorption Measured

 

[OffKilterBrewer]

I collected the hops left in my kettle after the wort had gone to the fermenter and wrung them out by hand and got 20 oz. of liquid out of 2 oz. of hops.

 

[Bigscience]

I collected the hops left in my kettle after the wort had gone to the fermenter and wrung them out by hand and got 20 oz. of liquid out of 2 oz. of hops.

I'm not sure this is really an accurate way to do this. The hops will still be holding on to liquid this way. If you would have weighed them, dried them and re-weighed them (and accounted for gravity of liquid) it would be better.

It seems the best way to accurately test absorption would be to add a measured amount of water to the hops, soak, drain and re-measure the water. The Weigh, Drain, Weigh would also work.

 

[ChemE]

It is exceedingly surprising that your hops held twice as much liquid as mine did even before adding the additional wort still in the hops that your measurement neglected as Bigscience mentioned. Does that 20 fluid ounces include trub and deadspace in your MLT? If you wrung the hops out by hand over your kettle which did not completely drain during the lauter, then that would help explain how your measurement came out 100% greater than mine.

 

[OffKilterBrewer]

The liquid left in the hops due to squeezing rather than weighing/drying/weighing is definitely a source of error, but I would wager is not tremendous. The volume measurement is from the bottom of the kettle, after wringing out the hops and subtracting the volume left by my dip tube (~8 oz.). The measurements were made with a 32 oz. pyrex graduated pitcher, which adds some additional error. I think that a good deal of the extra liquid was not actually absorbed in the hops but rather was trapped in and amongst the "hop pile" because they don't get a chance to drain by gravity prior to emptying the kettle (I have a screen in the bottom blocking them from entering the dip tube). If I were to bag them and let them drip-drain into the kettle prior to emptying the kettle, I think I would find a significantly lower volume of liquid lost to them. I lack the scales and accurately graduated, volumetric measuring vessels to be much more accurate about it at present.

 

[ChemE]

Cool, that makes sense.

 

[buzzkill]

I make up for my losses up front. if I want 10 gals. of beer in my keg I shoot for 12 gal. post boil.

 

[ChemE]

I hate wasting any amount of beer! Two gallons would kill me! I just take a little extra time to make sure my losses are drops at most. To each his own, some people would rather waste wort than time.

 

[buzzkill]

I dont really get waste. I have to leave at least a half gal in kettle due to hop matter and gunk. then loss at racking due to yeast gunk plus dry hops.( well I guess I do get alot of waste.) but my kegs get filled up to the gas dip tube.

my next project will be a screen for the kettle. I do hate wort loss, a necessary evil I guess. sure beats the heck out of a keg not getting full.

 

[ChemE]

I've tried both holding back the trub and hops (when I use pellets) and just letting it all go in the fermenter. For the beers I brew I just cannot tell any difference whatsoever so now I dump all my hops and break material (hot break gets skimmed off during the boil) into the fermenter. Besides cold break is supposed to be good for the yeast in primary. To get around the racking loss, I put a 2x4 scrap under one side of my carboy the day before I plan to rack to my bottling bucket. This gets my waste racking down to about a pint most of which is yeasty goodness to be washed or composted.

 

[buzzkill]

when I do a 5 gal. brew I also dump.(unless I am going to reuse the yeast) but when I do 10 my keggle I just grin and bear the loss. I tried to dump from keggle one time. that was a mess. :cross:

 

[ChemE]

Ah, yeah that makes sense. I guess that lip around the top would screw up the whole pouring thing!

 

[TrickyDick]

A lightbulb just went off in my brain.


What about pre hydrating the hops, such as with 5-12 oz water per oz of hops? I'll bet you could use cold or ambient temp water and maybe use a nested glass or bowl or some similar container to submerge the hops, either in a sack or loose? I don't see what harm letting them rest in some water a few minutes before you dump them into the kettle. You could dump the pre-soak water in also I'd bet without ill effect.

TD