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About to dump 2 batches, last ditch effort

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BugAC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Messages
252
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Location
Baton Rouge
Well, i have 2 batches about to be dumped.

One was a porter, the other a nut brown ale, both with the same problem and taste.

A) Over-carbonated. Way too much carbonation. When i pour slowly into a pint glass, i get alot of foam, that dissipates quickly like when you pour coke in a glass. The taste is harsh. Like drinking coke. The carbonation burns your throat. I've tried uncapping 1 bottle of each batch and letting it sit for 30 minutes to an hour, then recapping. Still too much carb.
My self diagnosis of the problem, was Cooper's carb drops. My first batch i used corn sugar and the beer came out excellent. These 2 batches i used cooper's carb drops (1 per 12 oz. bottle) and it's just awful, so this is my reasoning for my diagnosis.


B) Yeasty flavor. At first i thought the beer was just green. But after 2-3 months of bottle conditioning, i still get the yeast flavor which is awful. I'm not sure if it's the overcarbonation that caused it or what.
My self diagnosis of the problem, bad yeast. My first batch i used dried yeast (nottingham ale's yeast) and it was perfect. My next 2 batches i used liquid yeast.
1) The 2nd batch was a wyeast for a porter. I didn't read the package until i was brewing, so when smacked the pack, i only let is sit 2 hours before adding it. I did have a problem with stuck fermentation so i had to swirl the fermenter to get the yeast active again, once that happened, i had a good fermentation.
2) My 3rd batch was a white labs english yeast, for a sam smith nut brown ale's clown from Austin homebrew. I didn't have to worry about the smack pack problem, but again after i added it, i had stuck fermentation. I had to swirl the fermenter a couple different times before fermentation took hold. But once it started, i had really good krausen in the fermenter.

Though i do think my yeast was fine, when it was shipped to me, the yeast came in hot. The cold packs were far from cold due to the hot southern temperatures (louisiana). So i'm thinking that maybe it was the yeast heating up to probably somewhere around 90-100 degrees during shipping could be the problem.
Another possible problem, is that i did not use a yeast starter for either of my yeast packs.

So, last night i did my final taste test. I thought that my beer was green, and that if i just let it sit for a long time, the carbonation would die off some, and the yeast would settle out. It's been 3-4 months since i brewed those 2 batches, and it still tastes the same. Even when i uncapped and recapped, still the same.

So, as a last resort, and before i dump out 60 or so bottled beers, I am asking for some suggestions on solutions, or tips for next time when i brew. Right now, from my mistakes i have learned A) Never carbonate with drops. B) Use dry yeast when shipping, or by my liquid yeast local (not much selection however).
 
I've noticed that the carbonation drops do indeed over-carbonate around 7 weeks on. I've got a pic in my gallery of my 1st brew at 7 weeks. And yeah,the carbonation was getting some bite to it. Not much I can say on what to do. Save for going bulk prime. I did that a few batches ago. I'll never go back. Bulk priming is easier to prime to style,or at least to the point that you enjoy. I get good head,& the upside down snow storm that tapers off to good fine bubbles to the bottom of the glass.
 
I had the same problem with carbonation in my lemon wheat. I believe I should have let the secondary sit longer than a week with lemons as it created to much carbonation with them and then bottling sugar.

I fixed it by braking the caps seal only a lil and let them sit for over an hour and then resealed the cap. It still had a lil over carbonation however it was better than throwing out a whole batch. Now how you did it by taking the whole cap off might have exposed it to something. I'm not totally sure about the yeast problem.

And lastly I've learned to make sure the fermenting is fully done by having the same weight ratio 4 days in a row.

Hope this helps
 
Now how you did it by taking the whole cap off might have exposed it to something.
I uncapped, but placed it gently on top the bottle to prevent anything from getting in there.

And lastly I've learned to make sure the fermenting is fully done by having the same weight ratio 4 days in a row.

Well I was at 3 days with the same weight before i decided to bottle, fermentation was definitely finished.
 
I still think it's the carb drops. & 7 weeks +, & they will over carb. I guess they figure you'll be drinking them up by then?...
 
I would definitely recommend you use a starter for all liquid yeast in the future. You don't mention your OG for either beer here, but based on the styles I'm guessing they were both around 1.060, right? By just pitching your liquid yeast directly from the package, that combined with the fact that the yeast took a beating from the heat in shipping means you simply didn't pitch enough viable cells. That may explain your stuck fermentations in both cases.

If you make a starter in the future, you won't have to worry as much about whether the yeast got cooked by the heat (Austin, Texas here and a NOLA native, so I know what you're going through). You also won't have to worry about how far in advance you smack the Wyeast pack.

As for the overcarbonation problem, I wish I could help you there. I have used Coopers drops in the past with OK results, but I did eventually move to corn sugar because you can control the carbonation level better. I still use Coopers drops on 1-gallon test batches today, but not on anything else.

My only advice to you there would be to go back to corn sugar, and see if that helps ... but also to make sure you measure out your own and use an appropriate amount for the style, too. Some LHBS sell pre-packed priming sugar packs that are measured to a certain amount, without regard to the style of the beer. I used to use those, but still got overcarbonation on some beers. Now I measure everything out to style.

I'm also wondering if the two problems you're having are related. Sometimes I get yeasty flavors in overcarbonated beers because the beer is so carbonated that it kicks up the yeast cake at the bottom of the bottle. Are you seeing any of that?
 
Okay, just thought of something else.

What were your FG's when you bottled, and what was the target FG?

It's possible that even though your beers were at a consistent gravity for 3 days, maybe they weren't completely finished but the fermentation was just stuck again. If that happened, the action of bottling would have roused the yeast again, and left you with overcarbonated beers.

In any event, I definitely think pitching healthier yeast is going to help you out in the future, for various reasons. But you should switch back to corn sugar for priming anyway just for more control. Good luck! :mug:
 
You don't mention your OG for either beer here, but based on the styles I'm guessing they were both around 1.060, right?
OG was about 1.056 for porter and 1.052 for Nut Brown Ale

Sometimes I get yeasty flavors in overcarbonated beers because the beer is so carbonated that it kicks up the yeast cake at the bottom of the bottle. Are you seeing any of that?
Well, my bottles are dark, so i can't notice. But i do notice that when i pour out my beer (the ones i've tried i pour down the sink) that there is no yeast layer on the bottom of the bottle. My first batch, i had that yeast layer that settled on the bottom. And that batch was terrific. But yeah, I kind of think the yeast problem and the overcarb problem could be related.
 
Okay, just thought of something else.

What were your FG's when you bottled, and what was the target FG?

It's possible that even though your beers were at a consistent gravity for 3 days, maybe they weren't completely finished but the fermentation was just stuck again. If that happened, the action of bottling would have roused the yeast again, and left you with overcarbonated beers.

In any event, I definitely think pitching healthier yeast is going to help you out in the future, for various reasons. But you should switch back to corn sugar for priming anyway just for more control. Good luck! :mug:

What he said!
 
What were your FG's when you bottled, and what was the target FG?

2nd batch, i don't remember. Third batch, i think my FG was at 1.012

I definitely think pitching healthier yeast is going to help you out in the future, for various reasons. But you should switch back to corn sugar for priming anyway just for more control.
Yeah, these were my thoughts too. But hey, it's not a total loss. At least i know more of what not to do now.
 
+1 Shawn. I've been using either small starters or 1-2tsp of dex in re-hydrating water for a few hours. Def works way better at fermenting out quick & clean. I've gotten 1.050 OG's down to 1.010 FG's this way without any such problems.
But bulk priming really is better for the reasons previously noted. I finally gave up on the carb drops a few brews ago.
 
I can't add much beyond what's already been said, but I can tell you not to be afraid of ordering liquid yeast on line. A lot of places will at least offer to ship with a small ice pack, a few of them for free.
When I first started brewing, I ordered from a place that shipped without a freezer pack, and took about a week to get here. The driver left the box on my front porch, in the full sun, in a near 100 degree day, and I had no problem with the yeast.
 
You seem to know what is wrong, so kudos to you!

I am just impressed that there isn't a flood of "never dump your beer!" posts here with links to threads about not dumping beer. It is like asking a bottling question and the inevitable "u shood b keggign d00d!!1!" post.

I assume there is no local shop to get your yeast from? That is always ideal, less time in the heat. Best of luck on future batches!
 
As far as your fermentation taking a while to get started, I assume you're shaking/aerating the cooled wort really well prior to pitching? Just wanted to check and make sure it wasn't a lack of oxygen causing the yeast to sit around doing nothing at first...
 
I would recommend stashing a few for a while. I have a cider that is almost 2 years old now. I don't brew much right now, so I've kept it kegged. I almost dumped 8 gallons of it, because it was off. I decided to just store it until I needed the kegs.
I'm glad I kept it. I'm getting married in 51 days and I'm serving it at my wedding.

I've dumped many batches but try not to unless I need the room now. Never know what a few months will do for it.
When I bottle, I use the tablets. I've just gotten it down to how I like my carbonation and have found between 1.25 and 1.5 tablets has the perfect carbonation for my taste. It also could have been that the yeast wasn't fully done, so when you added the tablets, the yeast fed on those and the rest of the sugars in the wort.
 
One option that would be better than dumping: Buy a case or two of Natty Light. Mix half & half with your brew when you serve. It should bring the carb down some, and if nothing else, it'll improve the taste of the Natty Lite. Cheers!
 
I agree that the overcarbonation could be causing the yeast flavor because once you open the bottle the co2 rushes out and breaks up your yeast sediment and puts it into suspension. There are several online carbonation calculators that allow for very precise measurements to ensure accurate carbonation of the amount of volume of brew and the carbonation level for that particular style. I had the same problem as you before.
 
That's how I fixed it after my 1st brew or two. Carbing to style def fixes some of these things to do with over carbing.
 
You say that continued conditioning doesn't seem to help, but you are also noticing no yeast sediment in the bottom of the bottles. Are you cold conditioning these bottles? (I know that takes up a ton of room in a fridge.) If not, that might help a little by causing the yeast to drop out.

I also agree that overcarbonation could be creating your problems. Your issues with fermentation were, as someone else pointed out, likely due to not having sufficient viable yeast cells, but once you get going, you shouldn't have an excessively unpleasant yeasty flavor.

Don't allow this to steer you away from liquid yeast. If your LHBS doesn't have a good selection, ask if they can order specific styles for you. If leaving a package out in the sun on delivery day is a problem, perhaps you can have a shipment sent to your LHBS for you? Otherwise, make sure you make a starter (which, frankly, you should do generally anyway).
 
I had one of two kegs go south, so what I did was simply store and use it for marinade for chicken, beef, etc. I also made (and am currently making!) beer battered onion rings, and beer-battered everything so as not waste it.

Don't dump it, my friend. It can also be recycled some way.
 
Second the marinade. Here's a simple recipe I use for chicken:

(Enough for up to 3 lbs of Chicken)
INGREDIENTS
1 Cup Italian Dressing
1 (12 ounce) beer
2 tablespoons fresh minced garlic
1 teaspoon black pepper

Mix together all ingredients. Pour over chicken pieces, toss to coat. Refrigerate for at least 8 hours before grilling or baking.
 
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