A whole sack o' malt

[briandickens]

I'm looking to do a few AG brews in the future so want to make it as affordable as possible. I don't have a local HBS that's any good and shipping grain is expensive. Anyway, I'll be out in PA this weekend and thought maybe I could swing by a store on my way home to pick up a sack. Here's the question:

Briess 2-row or Maris Otter?

I've brewed with Maris Otter before and thought it was great. Never brewed with Briess 2-row but from what I hear it's just a base that is pretty plain and then you use the specialty malts to add flavor. For example, a Rye IPA with 11lbs 2-row and 3 lbs of rye and some other malts (Denny Conn's recipe). Would MO be appropriate there? Would it dorwn out the other malts? The price is close. They list the Briess at about $50 and the MO at $66. Not great prices, but no shipping makes it a decent deal.

Oh, it's Munton & Fison Maris Otter, not Crisp. Does it matter?

Brews I have lined up: Rye IPA and a Fat Tire clone I found on this board. That recipe calls for Belgian 2-row. Will either of these be close enough for that?

Am I overthinking this whole thing?

 

[Bob]

Maris Otter has definite flavor characteristics which will find its way into the finished beer, regardless of style. The flavors have been described as "crackery", "biscuity", and "nutty". US 2-row imparts little if any flavor of its own; it's very neutral. Further, Maris Otter pale malt is usually kilned to a higher color than US 2-row, making it unsuitable for very pale beers.

In the case of Mr Conn's Rye-PA, I cannot attest to whether MO would "overwhelm", though I imagine it will have a discernible impact on the flavor. US 2-row would permit the rye and other specialty malts to shine more distinctly.

Most Belgian ale brewers (commercial breweries, I mean) don't use Belgian 2-row. They usually use some European variety of Pils or Pale malts. I don't find a flavor difference between Belgian 2-row and other malts. So why go through the expense?

Listen - your base malt is nothing more than the backbone upon which the rest of the beer is based. You can use different base malts where appropriate - like MO in a batch of English-style ESB - but I recommend using a neutral base malt for versatility's sake. US 2-row won't be the best at any one style, but it will permit you to use specialty grains and other stuff to build great beers on top of it. You dig?

Cheers,

Bob

 

[Evan!]

MO is maltier, toastier, slightly darker, more british...but it will always work in a pinch unless you're talking about a very light beer (in which case you need pilsner). I keep both on hand and use the MO mainly for my british-style beers or ones where I want a more pronounced malt character from my base malt. American 2-row is lighter, less maltier, but more all-purpose. It's also typically cheaper.

All in all, if I could only get one bag, and the cost wasn't that different, I'd go with the MO. I've used MO in many non-british style beers and it's always been great.

As for "belgian 2-row", yeah, you're overthinking it.

 

[mmb]

Depends on what you brew. If you only do American Pale Ales of one type or another, the 2row would be fine. If you brew English beers then the MO is pretty much necessary to hit those styles without specialty additions.

If you're trying to brew to style then brew with the regions ingredients. American 2 row doesn't have the flavor of MO. If your just brewing beer, MO makes a great base malt.

The maltster, in most cases, doesn't matter. Munton & Fison will be fine.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Both!

MO for the English bits. 2-Row for most everything else.

Pair that up with a sack of Pilsner and a sack of Munich.

Then get a mixed bunch, say 1-4lbs each of Roasted, Toasted, Chocolate, Special B, Crystal 40, 60, 80, 120, Biscuit, and maybe some wheat or Rye and you'll be set for "just about" anything you want to make.

Once you build a decent stock of hops you'll be able to roll into brewing at a moments notice.

 

[briandickens]

Sounds great guys. Thanks for the advice. Sounds like the MO wouldn't necessarily make a beer bad if it's not what's called for, but would be necessary when I go and brew the Bitter or ESB that's surely down the road.

 

[briandickens]

Both!

MO for the English bits. 2-Row for most everything else.

Pair that up with a sack of Pilsner and a sack of Munich.

Ha! I wish I had a spare $250 sitting around to spend on grain. With my track record though, I shouldn't stock up that much. I'll have to see if I can go through one sack before I buy four at a time. But man, do I wish. I'm hoping that having the bulk of the grain on hand will make me more likely to brew in the future.

 

[Bob]

Sounds great guys. Thanks for the advice. Sounds like the MO wouldn't necessarily make a beer bad if it's not what's called for, but would be necessary when I go and brew the Bitter or ESB that's surely down the road.

Nope! I have pals who use nothing but MO for pretty much everything, and they make excellent beer. Hell, I know of a couple of microbreweries who use MO as the base malt for everything from Belgian Dubbel to IIPA to Scotch Ale.

In other words, if you have the dosh to toss at it, getting a sack of MO isn't a bad idea. But you won't go wrong with a sack of US 2-row either!

Bob

 

[Saccharomyces]

I'm in the MO camp. I use MO for everything that calls for 2-row, and I adjust the SRM by dropping out some crystal. Since I buy it 55# at a time it's $1.07/lb.

 

[CBBaron]

I usually use MO for everything, however for the two brews you are planning i would think that US 2-row would be a better choice. Neither of those would benefit from the extra character of MO and it might distract slightly.
For English Ales, Brown Ales, Stouts and Porters MO is a great base but 2-row will work just fine also.

Craig

 

[Tonedef131]

If you are only going to get one go for the 2-row. It is cheap and you can use it in nearly anything. I always keep one grain bin full of 2-row and the other one depends on what styles I am into brewing at the time. So the rotating bin gets either MO, 6-row, pilsner, or Golden Promise. I have been thinking about getting an entire bag of Vienna to start experimenting with it as a base malt.

 

[lamarguy]

Since I buy it 55# at a time it's $1.07/lb.

Just out of curiosity, where do you buy your bulk grain at?

I'm looking for a cheaper source. In San Antonio, 2 row is $1.20/lb at the hole-in-the-wall homebrew shop, $1.25/lb (shipped) through MoreBeer, and it appears to be $1.15/lb (plus shipping) at AHS. I travel to Austin occasionally so, if it's cheaper, I'll stop off the next time through.

 

[briandickens]

Well, rather than answer me they put aside a sack of MO for me. So I guess the worst thing that happens is I regret buying the MO and end up having to drink my way through the sack. I've made worse decisions that didn't end up with me having a lot of beer to drink.

I'll make the Rye IPA with it, even though Denny might get upset with me changing the recipe. Then I'll skew my list toward some more english styles.

Thanks for all the advice!

 

[Saccharomyces]

Dang! Rye IPA made with MO... NOW you have gone and made me drool on my keyboard again.. Dang!

 

[Tonedef131]

I'll make the Rye IPA with it

I use MO for my RIPA and it is really nice. Since you are getting a whole bag just get into english style beers for a while and it will never be inappropriate to use!