A random assortment of beginner questions lol

[TheChamber2113]

Hey again!
So, I have two extract brews under my belt. A local IPA recipe and BM's Centennial Blonde Ale. The IPA is close to botlling ( about 6 days) and the blonde has got a bit to go. I've been reading these threads like crazy and just have a few questions
#1) I've heard a couple people state that extracts have a "twang" to them. Is that a universal truth or a product of bad boiling/ brewing?
#2) I've also heard that brewing smaller batches (even 3 gal) like I do is "bad hop utilization"?
#3) I've heard mentioned that "thin aluminum" pots ( like my 4 gal aluminum lobster style pot) can be detrimental and cause off flavors in a brew?
#4) If I am using only a primary on my IPA and dry hopped it (pellets without a bag) will gelatin take care of the hop sludge on top or should I scoop those off before adding gelatin finings?
That's every thing I can think of for now. I believe the couple of brews I've done thus far would be considered "partial mash" as I have used specialty grains and steeped them? I guess I'm not 100% on the differences. You guys are awesome keep the questions and comments coming!

 

[sptaylor70]

1. Many extracts and kits do seem to have an unpleasant twang that seems absent from grain brews. I think that it derives from stale extract. Sometimes it will mellow with time.

2. Probably a myth. Concentration of alpha and beta acids, and other compounds, should be independent of volume. I only brew 3 gallon batches, and have never had a problem.

3. Sort of. Thin metal can lead in brewing, as it does in cooking, to localized hot spots. Hot spots can lead to excessive carmelization, and that can lead to off flavors.

4. I would skim the sludge off the top before adding gelatin. But then again, I'd probably rack to a secondary to leave the hop sludge, and yeast cake, behind. Then add the gelatin for couple of days for clarification.

5. There is a difference between steeping grains and partial mash. The difference is that the grain used in partial mash has enzymes and will convert itself and, possibly, other grains, such as flaked oats, flaked barley, wheat, or rye. Without the enzymes to mash those grains, the resulting texture will be unpleasantly "gloppy".

 

[slaithe]

May I interject on 3? I don't think there is going to be much of a problem with with an aluminum pot having uneven heating on the bottom because it is an excellent conductor of heat and they use it in the bottom of fancy brew pots to ensure even heating... steel has a strange property to ah hold heat where it is being heated, while it is being heated, and then conducting from the places it was heated when the heat is removed (and/or reduced, IIRC). I red and have been told that using an aluminium brew pot can lead to off flavors caused be the chemical reaction of some brewing ingredients and the aluminium it's self... What exactly those ingredients or reactions may be I have no idea, but it seems a lot of people have used aluminium pots a lot with out problems so, ymmv but I wouldn't worry too much about it right away. Then again I had a big ss pot around...

Sorry using my new phone... bit of a learning curve.

 

[RM-MN]

#1 People have entered extract beers in competitions and won awards. I don't think the judges would miss extract twang. I think that the practices of the brewer make the difference.

#2 Tell that to my face as you drink the beer I made in a 3 gallon batch. Yes you can get better hop utilization using a full volume boil instead of the smaller volume with top up. That is easily made up for by using slightly more hops. Very slightly.

#3 Aluminum needs to be seasoned before the first brew to make a thick oxide layer. After that you can't tell the difference between a brew made in aluminum from anything else.

#4 No. Unless you are entering in a competition where appearance will be judged you don't need to use gelatin to get clear beer, just time (with certain exceptions) nor do you need to remove the hops. Use a fine mesh bag (paint strainer) wrapped around the input end of the siphon when you rack to the bottling bucket and it will keep all but the very finest hop material out. That little bit will settle in the bottle and be covered by the last of the yeast settling out.

#5 You probably used an extract kit with steeping grains instead of a partial mash. It is a difficult concept to wrap your head around but there has to be a "base malt" to have the enzymes to convert. Look for grains with names like pale malt, munich, vienna, etc for these kind of grains. Caramel (Crystal) malts and darker grains have been heated too much in the processing to have any enzymes left.

 

[wilserbrewer]

1. Excellent beer can be made w/ extract, fresher the better!
2. Boil concentration, NOT batch size affects hop utilization, A 1.5 gallon boil for a 5 gallon batch might suffer hop utilization, maybe add more hops, IDK
3. Nonsense! Your 4 gallon thin pot is perfect to get started and make some good brew!
4. Gelatin works best at cold temps. Gelatin works well if you can chill the fermenter well, add the gelatin and "cold crash" for at least several days prior to bottling. If the hops don't drop to the bottom, just try and siphon below them...don't fret if some hop particles make it to your bottles, a week or two in the fridge will give you clear beer to carefully pour off the dregs at the bottom of the bottle.
5. Partial mash uses base grains and converts them to fermentable sugar at mash temps, 150 - 155 +-. Steeping grains are specialty grains and are just simply rinsed in the warm / hot brew water for flavor. There's not much difference b/w the two.

RDWHAHB!

 

[DrunkleJon]

Hey again!
So, I have two extract brews under my belt. A local IPA recipe and BM's Centennial Blonde Ale. The IPA is close to botlling ( about 6 days) and the blonde has got a bit to go. I've been reading these threads like crazy and just have a few questions
#1) I've heard a couple people state that extracts have a "twang" to them. Is that a universal truth or a product of bad boiling/ brewing?

I have noticed some 'twang' when I use LME if I am looking for it. It seems to occur more with LME than DME. Freshness of extract matters. If you do not notice it, don't worry about it.

#2) I've also heard that brewing smaller batches (even 3 gal) like I do is "bad hop utilization"?

"]Nah. Play with some brewing calculators. If you are making a 3 Gallon full boil batch, you will obviously use less hops than you would in a 5 gallon full boil batch. It is the partial boil with top off water where you will get a small amount of underutilization. With a 3 Gal batch, it is probably negligable.

#3) I've heard mentioned that "thin aluminum" pots ( like my 4 gal aluminum lobster style pot) can be detrimental and cause off flavors in a brew?

There is a big stigma in cooking against aluminun. The thin aluminum pot will not retain heat as well, and if you build up the oxide layer (boil water in it before making beer) you will be fine.

#4) If I am using only a primary on my IPA and dry hopped it (pellets without a bag) will gelatin take care of the hop sludge on top or should I scoop those off before adding gelatin finings?

Finings are all for asthetics. I have seen many commercial IPA's that are unfiltered and hazy. Heck, I kinda think that makes them better. Usually when people add gelatin they transfer their beer off the trub, add the geletin, stir, then cool. So if you use geletin on your IPA, wmake sure fermentation is complete, rack from under the "hop sludge on top"(krausen? If it is, make sure that you are done fermenting. Equal gravities over three days), and try not to suck up much trub. Add geletin and stir well. Cool for a couple days and rack off the fallen geletin and you are set.

That's every thing I can think of for now. I believe the couple of brews I've done thus far would be considered "partial mash" as I have used specialty grains and steeped them? I guess I'm not 100% on the differences. You guys are awesome keep the questions and comments coming!

Reply in original message.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

1) Bad process or old extract. Use fresh extract, DME if you can, and use late or flameout additions instead of boiling it the whole time.

2) I also like mythology, but it's not something I refer to in daily life for advice. Seriously, no, the difference between a 3 and a 5 gal boil, when it comes to utilization of hops, is minimal if anything.

3) Never been a problem for me.

4) Don't scoop. Rack from under them carefully. You can do gelatin too, if you have the ability to cold crash, but it's unnecessary.

 

[cank]

My first 3 batches were extract with steeped grains. The first two turned out awesome, the third one not so good, but that was because I didn't make it soon enough (about 2 months after I bought it) and didn't store the crushed grain properly(left all the grain out before I realized I should have put it in the fridge).

I use an aluminum pot with no problem, just boiled some water in it before first use.

I did an all grain IPA where I dry hopped in the Primary without gelatin and cold crashed when it was over. Turned out really clear.

Welcome to the addiction!

 

[TheChamber2113]

OK thanks guys. Back to the cold crashing. Does that require the use of a refrigerator or temp controlled freezer? I realize using the gelatin isn't necessary but if I have my choice between a hazy or clear beer, I choose clear haha. My basement stays a fairly constant 61° but I really don't have the ability to go lower that that unless a swamp cooler setup would work?

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

I s'pose you could cold crash in a swamp bucket, but it'd take a lot of ice. You'll wanna get it cold, like fridge cold, and keep it there 'til it clears. Think of how gelatin works when making Jell-o; you add dissolved gelatin to a warm liquid and then chill in the fridge to solidify. That's what happens when you fine with gelatin, the gelatin will bind to proteins, solidify and fall out of suspension taking the proteins (haze) down with it.

 

[unionrdr]

Extract twang Is that cooked extract flavor you get due to mailard reactions from boiling too much extract or all of it at the begining of the boil.
It happens with LME moreso than DME. So late additions def help get lighter color & cleaner flavors.
In my experiences,differences in hop utilization are small enough not to be of too great a concern. But I do use hop sacks to keep the hop gunk contained as much as possible.
Aluminum pots need to have water boiled in them 30 minutes or so to build up the protective oxide layer,as beer wort is acidic & can react with bare aluminum.

 

[Mozart]

Going back to the aluminum pot....

From what I've read, seasoning, and the oxide layer, is important. The inside of the pot should be a hazy dull white, not shiny, and when you clean, don't scrub that hazy stuff off! That's your oxide layer which keeps the aluminum from interacting with your beer to create off flavors.

There is one advantage of an aluminum pot vs. stainless steel that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread yet that relates specifically to homebrewing. When it comes to cooling your wort post-boil, an aluminum pot will cool faster than a stainless steel one.

Cheers!

 

[Heavywalker]

On the aluminum pot I would say that the oxide layer is VERY important. I brewed by first batch in an aluminum pot and did not know about the need for the oxide layer. The beer reacted with the aluminum and I can taste a very pronounced metallic taste at the finish of each drink of that beer, and it lingers in the back of my throat for several minutes. So make sure you have the oxide layer built up first before brewing and don't wash it off between brews. Unless you like the taste of metal.

 

[TheChamber2113]

Oh $***!!! I brewed my first batch in the pot brand new and scrubbed the bejesus out of it before the second batch.... oh well, live and learn. I've sampled both but haven't noticed any off flavors but we will see in a couple weeks. I also mentioned above about crash cooling in a swamp cooler and somebody said they thought it would be kind of tough, I consider that a challenge!!! But seriously, has this been tried? My basement runs about 61° so I wonder how low I could go? What temp is normal for a fridge?

 

[julioardz]

Fridges often hold a temperature that is a few degrees above freezing. My kitchen fridge is set at 38F. When I cold crash in my fermenting fridge, I get the beer down to 32-34F and hold it there for a few days. I have accidentaly frozen a top layer to my beer, woops, but I try to hold it near freezing for a few days. I do the same with lagering.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Dont worry. I did the same years ago and am still mostly normal. My pot is stillshiny except for the bottom.

 

[TheChamber2113]

Haha ok well lesson learned. Sounds like I might have to invest in a cheapo freezer off craigslist or something

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

If you're asking if you can run cool enough to make gelatin effective in a swamp bucket, yeah, you can, but it's going to take a lot of ice. I've actually run a lager fermentation, has have others, in a swamp bucket but it was winter in a drafty room and took a literal mountain of ice for the first few days.

 

[TheChamber2113]

Well if I'm not mistaken doesn't the gelatin only take about 2 days to clear? So as long as I kept it reasonably cold for those two days that would probably be enough?

 

[gr8shandini]

Regarding the aluminum, this is something that gets overblown. An oxide layer forms on aluminum in literally a matter of milliseconds. Studies have been done on aluminum leaching in cookware that show a small degree of pitting of the naturally forming oxide layer after prolonged simmering of very acidic foods (pH ~2.0) such as tomato sauce. I have found nothing saying that a moderately acidic solution such as wort (pH 5.5) has any effect over the 90 mins or so you need to brew beer. I've brewed in a brand new aluminum kettle with nothing more than a wash to get rid of the cutting oil that's usually on them. If you're getting metallic off flavors, they're probably coming from somewhere else.

That said, thin metal of any kind can be a problem for extract brewers, especially during LME additions. I would kill the heat entirely during each addition until the extract is completely dissolved. Even if you've already added hops, the wort will stay warm enough during these 2 minutes or so to continue the bittering reactions.

 

[JimRausch]

I also mentioned above about crash cooling in a swamp cooler and somebody said they thought it would be kind of tough, I consider that a challenge!!! But seriously, has this been tried? My basement runs about 61° so I wonder how low I could go? What temp is normal for a fridge?

I routinely cold crash in a swamp cooler and then add gelatin. I move the S.C. to my coldest area(this time of year it's in the mid 60's), add cold water from the tap, and then usually 4-5 frozen soda bottles. It gets the beer temp down to the 40s which I believe is sufficient for cold crashing. I leave it overnight, then add the gelatin, and let everything sit for a couple days until I'm ready to bottle. Works for me- wicked clear!

 

[TheChamber2113]

Haha awesome! I had confidence that it could be done