A ques about batch sparging

[bendog15]

New to the all-grain scene. Wondering about drainage from the mash tun. Here's my process, let me know if you have any advice.
I batch sparge (10 gal igloo) by heating up strike water and adding water and grains to tun. Then after the 1 hour mark, I vorlauf a few quarts and slowly drain the tun completely of liquid. I then heat up sparge water and add it to the tun, then drain again.
I realize that adding the sparge water is to wash any residual sugars left in the grain bed. My question is- After adding the sparge water, do I need to let it sit in the mash tun for awhile? How long? Also when I drain it, does it need to be drained as slow as the strike water?

 

[mjbrewer]

I am no professional by any means, that being said here is my opinion. I like to let my sparge water sit for 10 minutes even though it's not necessary. The conversion is complete and all your doing is rinsing the grain as you said. I treat my batch sparge just like I do with my first rubbings. There is no rush as I fire up my brew kettle while I'm draining. I add my second runnings to the kettle before I'm even close to a boil.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[chickypad]

You can drain both the first runnings and the sparge as fast as it will go when batch sparging. You don't need to let the sparge sit, just stir the crap out of it. If you want to read more from an expert check Denny's site.

 

[cank]

I even read you could use cold water to sparge.? It just really doesn't matter. Conversions already happened and you are just rinsing.

 

[Culbetron]

The reason to let it sit for 10 minutes before draining is to let the grain bed settle enough to be a useful filter. Also hot water does a much better job dissolving the sugars left on the grain than cold water would. So to lauter I would:

Add the sparge water at 170f-175f
Stir well
Let rest 10 min
Vorlauf
Drain

 

[chickypad]

I even read you could use cold water to sparge.? It just really doesn't matter. Conversions already happened and you are just rinsing.

Yes, Kai has a cold water sparging experiment that shows not much difference.

 

[aspiffymofo]

10 min here as well for the reason Culbetron mentioned.. Doesn't make any time difference as it's settling, I'm heating my first runnings for the boil. A hot sparge will get to boiling quicker than a cold one too.

I thought I read something about the reason for 168F mash out was to "release" some of the sugars trapped in the grain

 

[doug293cz]

I thought I read something about the reason for 168F mash out was to "release" some of the sugars trapped in the grain

You don't "release" the sugars. You diffuse the sugars out of the grist particles into the sparge water. Diffusion is driven by a concentration difference. The converted grist has a higher sugar concentration than the water, so sugar moves from the grist to the water. Diffusion stops when the concentration of sugar in the grist and sparged wort are equal.

For batch sparge, you can get the same amount of sugar out with the same amount of water, whether the water is hot or cold. You can just do it a little faster with hot water because diffusion is faster at higher temperatures. Diffusion is also faster out of smaller particles vs. larger particles.

For fly sparging it depends on the transit time of the sparge water thru the grain bed vs. the diffusion rate out of the grist particles. For large particles at very high sparge rates, hot water could be more effective at sugar extraction. But, at the low sparge rates normally used, there is not likely to be a significant difference between hot and cold.

It is a common fallacy that the higher solubility of sugar in hot vs. cold water makes a difference in sparging. It does not make any difference because the concentrations involved are very much lower than the solubility limit of sugar in cold water. LME is a concentrated sugar solution, and it is below the solubility limit of sugar in water, otherwise the sugar would crystallize out.

Brew on

 

[Denny]

New to the all-grain scene. Wondering about drainage from the mash tun. Here's my process, let me know if you have any advice.
I batch sparge (10 gal igloo) by heating up strike water and adding water and grains to tun. Then after the 1 hour mark, I vorlauf a few quarts and slowly drain the tun completely of liquid. I then heat up sparge water and add it to the tun, then drain again.
I realize that adding the sparge water is to wash any residual sugars left in the grain bed. My question is- After adding the sparge water, do I need to let it sit in the mash tun for awhile? How long? Also when I drain it, does it need to be drained as slow as the strike water?

I have batch sparged 466 batches, experimenting a lot along the way. What I've learned in relation to your questions...there is no value in letting the sparge water sit. I've let it sit for times from 30 min, down to zero min. It made no difference whatsoever. Also, neither your mash runoff nor sparge runoff needs to be slow. You can go as fast as your equipment will allow you to go without a stuck runoff. For my boil volume of 7.5-8 gal., it takes me a total of 15 min. from the time I start the mash runoff til the time I end the sparge runoff. You can take a loo at www.dennybrew.com for details. It's also discussed in my new book "Experimental Homebewing".

 

[Denny]

I am no professional by any means, that being said here is my opinion. I like to let my sparge water sit for 10 minutes even though it's not necessary. The conversion is complete and all your doing is rinsing the grain as you said. I treat my batch sparge just like I do with my first rubbings. There is no rush as I fire up my brew kettle while I'm draining. I add my second runnings to the kettle before I'm even close to a boil.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

With all due respect, rinsing is what happens in fly sparging. In batch sparging, you're draining the sugar, not rinsing it.

 

[Denny]

10 min here as well for the reason Culbetron mentioned.. Doesn't make any time difference as it's settling, I'm heating my first runnings for the boil. A hot sparge will get to boiling quicker than a cold one too.

I thought I read something about the reason for 168F mash out was to "release" some of the sugars trapped in the grain

The reason for a true mashout is to stop conversion. But few homebrewers hold a high enough temp for a long enough tie to do that, and in batch sparging there's no need anyway.

 

[Denny]

It is a common fallacy that the higher solubility of sugar in hot vs. cold water makes a difference in sparging. It does not make any difference because the concentrations involved are very much lower than the solubility limit of sugar in cold water. LME is a concentrated sugar solution, and it is below the solubility limit of sugar in water, otherwise the sugar would crystallize out.

Brew on