A lot of wasted wort after transfering to fermertor ( hop trub )... any tip out there ?

[seajellie]

Odie, thanks for your continued updates to this. I'm a dedicated filter-er like you, but your latest info about the biodiesel bucket filters was new to me. That looks like a fantastic solution. How did the 200 micron version work for you? Do you think 400 or 100 would work better?

I see that the filters available for our standard carboy funnels are 400 micron, and those can clog quickly to a very slow drip - but the surface area is of course a small fraction of a biodiesel bucket filter. I find using a mix of leaf and pellet hops is ideal for setting a proper bed for that scenario.

To the naysayers, sure I agree with some of the points. It is a bit of fuss and extra cleaning and sanitization for (in my case) 3 - 4 quarts of super clean wort.

There are at least three reasons I do it. First is that for me, clear wort *does* make a flavor difference. Every year I do at least one side-by-side test of very clear wort vs. a transferring all but the last two quarts direct into the primary. Even leaving the thickest of the junk behind, I still get a difference in flavor and often clarity with these tests. I'll admit two things here: 1) Sometimes (maybe 20%) that difference is not huge and 2) that I've sometimes preferred the "dirty" batch ;-) but that seems to be mostly on the darkest maltier styles, which is only about 20% of what I brew. Don't quote me on that last point, as it could easily be a different factor related to the trub (e.g. yeast health, hops used, etc.).

Of course, if you repitch yeast, filtering is a big help.

And, I don't like the weight and extra heating & cooling time that an extra gallon of wort adds to my brew day.

 

[eric19312]

Early days when I was fermenting in buckets I did the filter. Found this really cool conical filter at a kitchen supply store and it did a nice job.

Strainer 2

• eric19312
• Mar 15, 2013

5oz hops and trub in 10" fine mesh conical strainer

Edited

Since then I've changed my process
1. got a spike kettle with a stepped bottom...my whirlpool is much more effective
2. I build my recipes to leave about 1.5 gallons in the kettle and just let it go
3. I added an AIH hop filter: https://www.homebrewing.org/400-Micron-Stainless-Hop-Filter-with-Adjustable-Hook--6-x-14_p_7116.html I managed to do a whirlpool with 13oz of hop pellets in there last week...was pretty tight but I'd stir it with a long spoon and then pull it out let it drain and lower it back in maybe 10 times

got nice clear wort into fermentor.

 

[seajellie]

Metal is nice too - being able to boil something always makes me more confident about sanitary conditions ;-)

I'll probably go with the biodiesel plastic option anyway, due to the large surface area and perfect fit; the latter helps with my thoughts for a sanitary cover while the filter does its work.

 

[odie]

I have no idea what my funnel screen micron ratings are. How did you get 400? Yes it's very slow because it's a small area. Takes me 2-3 days to filter a gallon-ish of bottom trub but I do get more than a few nice clean FREE pints of beer for my patience.

The 200 micron bucket insert worked great. took only a few hours to completely filter. But it was a smaller grain bill (less trub). If I was to buy one specifically for beer I probably would start with a 100 micron and try it. I only used 200 because I already had it (bought it years ago to filter used cooking oil to run my Mercedes diesels on).

I will be using the bucket insert from now on. If I'm using my carboys then back to the funnel or cones. it all depends on what fermenter is open at the time.

Plus the bucket insert really seals and protects the fresh wort. I bet I could even pitch yeast and leave it dripping until krausen starts to peak, then put the lid on and seal it with an airlock.

 

[dwhite60]

I've heard using a paint straining bag. Put the sanitized bag in your bucket, then transfer your wort in, then pull the bag. Never done it but it should work pretty well.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[seajellie]

On the more beer site, the rep answered a question about the screen size on the funnel filter. No idea if it applies to all of them or not.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/funnel-screen-fits-30-cm-35-funnels-be494-be478.html

Cool, I'm still on the fence about 100 vs 200. If you have other input after draining your beer off the yeast cake, please update us, cheers!

 

[Navy Guy]

I use my bag from BIAB to poor all the worth through into the fermenter. Make sure you sanitize it and also your hands. When making something with a lot of hops I often have to squeeze the back several times to clear it out.

 

[mkopec1]

Ive always used hop bags for my brews. I guess it goes back to the mid 90s when I started extract brewing and all additions of extra flavor grains and hops were always added in bags.Its the way I learned I guess some could argue you dont get the full affect of the hops when in a bag or a SS hop container, but I never found it to be an issue. You still get a bit of turb at the bottom, but obviously no where near the amount when you just free float your hops.

 

[monkeymath]

On my last brew, I strained the remaining hop sludge at the bottom of my grainfather through a coffee filter. It wasn't much; gave about 800ml of wort, which I froze for kraeusening come bottling time. Given the small filter size, it was a bit of work, but I honestly enjoy being resourceful. This is perfectly fine wort which I would have just dumped otherwise.

Takes me 2-3 days to filter a gallon-ish of bottom trub but I do get more than a few nice clean FREE pints of beer for my patience.

Two to three days is much longer than I'd be comfortable leaving sweet wort unprotected. Not saying it's wrong to do it this way, just advising some caution.

 

[odie]

I put a cover/sanitized bucket lid over the funnel. keeps anything floating in the air from landing in the trub. But the funnel itself does a great job of closing up the collection container. And as the container fills up I periodically dump it into the already fermenting wort.

If you are using a carboy you could just set the funnel in the neck and filter right into the carboy. Once it's all filtered just cap the carboy with an airlock.

 

[fun4stuff]

I just dump it all in! Saves the time and clean up. If i want to harvest yeast, i may wash it as described in another popular HBT thread..

 

[McKnuckle]

I'm another fan of those plastic bucket filters. I have one that's 200 micron and another that's 75. I use the 200 most of the time, since it catches all the hops and any stray grain. Break material passes right through, unless it somehow gets trapped on top of hop sludge. Not that I care about break material in the fermenter. I'm just looking to keep the hops out.

The 75 micron really slows to a crawl, so I have only used that for filtering a mash runoff, sort of an alternative vorlauf. Works well for that.

You can filter over a bucket, then just pour the collected wort through a funnel into another fermenter like a carboy or whatever. You don't have to be stuck with buckets just because you want to use this thing.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

There are at least three reasons I do it. First is that for me, clear wort *does* make a flavor difference. Every year I do at least one side-by-side test of very clear wort vs. a transferring all but the last two quarts direct into the primary. Even leaving the thickest of the junk behind, I still get a difference in flavor and often clarity with these tests. I'll admit two things here: 1) Sometimes (maybe 20%) that difference is not huge and 2) that I've sometimes preferred the "dirty" batch ;-) but that seems to be mostly on the darkest maltier styles, which is only about 20% of what I brew. Don't quote me on that last point, as it could easily be a different factor related to the trub (e.g. yeast health, hops used, etc.).

I am curious about your process for your experiment ("very clear wort vs. a transferring all but the last two quarts direct into the primary"). I don't have good data to back it up but I have a general feeling that 1) hop material from the boil will impart flavors (cannot say if those are good or bad...not sure if 60 min boil vs flameout vs whirlpool makes a difference) and 2) some hot and cold break (or whatever the other stuff that settles out) does not make a flavor difference. I have seen plenty of results indicating that some trub results in better clarity.

With my 5 gal batches I tend to let the kettle settle for a few minutes (maybe 10) after removing the chiller. I then transfer to my fermenter with an auto-siphon leaving the worst of the trub behind, but plenty settles out in the fermenter. With my smaller batches I tend to pour the wort through a coarse metal strainer that seems to remove the worst of the hop material.

I don't believe there would be any gain in the overall amount of beer from filtering before going into the fermenter vs just letting the trub compact in the bottom of the fermenter. The trub clearly takes up more room and makes for more stuff in harvested yeast, but differences in flavor or other quality of the beer would be interesting to me.

 

[seajellie]

Hey Cascades, my process was pretty simple. After building up enough yeast for two batches, I'd brew 8 - 10 gallons in a single kettle. After chilling and settling out, I'd just run the first half into one fermenter. This wort would be beautifully clear (to the eye). Then I'd run all/almost all of the remaining wort into the second fermenter, and it would get quite milky and cloudy for the last gallon (if not downright full of sediment).

I did these tests because as many have noted, trying to separate the trub can really be a bother on some systems. So I wanted to be sure that it was worthwhile. I've found a difference for the majority of times I've done this comparison over the years -- though there are internet studies & lots of opinions that say nope, I must be stupid because there is no difference

This was obviously not a rigorous test. I just wanted something good enough for my system. I don't have enough data to figure out a real trend or causation. I did test enough to prove to myself, it was worth keeping the thickest trub out at a minimum. There was one English Porter that was an outlier - I liked the "trubby" version better. I also made an English IPA with that yeast, and for that, the "clear" winner was the clear wort - no comparison in flavor or clarity. ymmv as always....

I did try out a 200 micron bucket filter out on a dunkel I just brewed. I took the last gallon, quickly swirled it, and poured it into the filter. One hour later it was all drained. It'll be another week before I rack it and get a look at the yeast; I expect that a fair bit of trub got through. Overall it seemed great. I like the fact the wort is going right into the primary, and the yeast can get to work on the oxygen that filtration introduces.... but that's another topic ;-)

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Hey Cascades, my process was pretty simple.

Thanks for the info. I did one "no trub vs lots of trub" experiment in 2019. My initial impression was that the "lots of trub" batch had just a tad more hop flavor...but unfortunately that batch was the second of two infected batches, so after a month both kegs developed a strong plastic/band aid flavor that overpowered any differences.

I have a "clear wort" Dark Mild in the fermenter now...but that was mostly to see how it impacted harvesting yeast, and I don't have a control to taste it against.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Hi guys,

Last night I brewed a Double IPA and after I transfered the wort in the fermenter I ended up with at least 8-10L of hops mixed with the wort. ( I brew 45L batch )

I would like to know if there is any technique to filter the last 5-10L wort after the transfer tothe fermenter to get the most beer possible ! Especialy when brewing beer with lots of hops...

Its not the first time that it is happening but I want to to figure out a way to improve that.

Thanks a lot !

Make a larger batch and account for loss (especially for massively hopped beers). I brew 12.5 gallons for a 10 gallon batch. I account for an extra gallon of junky stuff that stays in the kettle. 5.75g of clear wart goes in each fermentor. After fermentation I then have 5+ gallons in each carboy and only the trub free stuff ~5g goes into each keg.

 

[Sparge]

Make a larger batch and account for loss (especially for massively hopped beers). I brew 12.5 gallons for a 10 gallon batch. I account for an extra gallon of junky stuff that stays in the kettle. 5.75g of clear wart goes in each fermentor. After fermentation I then have 5+ gallons in each carboy and only the trub free stuff ~5g goes into each keg.

I do the same. I also use cheap hop bags. It works like a champ.

 

[seajellie]

For those interested in the biodiesel bucket filters, below is a yeast sample harvested from the dunkel I recently brewed. The final gallon of wort had been drained through a 200 micron bucket filter. Note that the wort was actually much darker than the liquid in the jar below, and the yeast was on its fourth generation and I had never washed it. I had used 2 oz of pellet and 0.5 oz of leaf hops in the batch. I would guess that the yeast cake was a bit larger than I would have expected, and that the filtered hop trub mix in the bucket filter was a bit less than I get in other methods, so that likely means more break got into the primary than in my usual method.

But, no big deal. For the ease of use, no doubt I'll be sticking with this method. I may get a 75 micron even though McKnuckle reports it gets really slow. In my case, it's going directly into the primary so time is not an issue. Thanks all who contributed info about these filters, this has made a real improvement in my brew day.

IMG_20200210_162255588

• seajellie
• Feb 10, 2020

Yeast cake saved from biodiesel bucket filtered wort.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

It's amazing to me that I never heard of a biodiesel bucket filter before this thread, yet it looks like the best solution to the problem. It perfectly fits brew buckets, yet brew shops don't even sell them?

 

[Genuine]

I've been thinking of getting the HopStopper 2.0 from The Electric Brewery as a way to filter the wort from the kettle to the fermenter...and more importantly, to stop my counterflow chiller from getting plugged up with hops during cooling.

 

[odie]

It’s not a biodiesel filter. It’s just a bucket strainer that is popular with some of the biodiesel crowd. So it’s become a popular name. It’s just a bucket strainer available in many micron sizes for many uses. I bought mine when searching for various ways to filter waste oil for my biodiesel experiments

 

[McKnuckle]

I may get a 75 micron even though McKnuckle reports it gets really slow.

Let me qualify this a bit. I'm not sure the wort will actually flow at all through the 75 micron filter once a layer of trub has formed across it. I have to continually push the trub aside with a sanitized spoon in order for the wort to find a drainage path.

This is tedious, but it does provide a good degree of aeration, so it's not all bad.

 

[odie]

Let me qualify this a bit. I'm not sure the wort will actually flow at all through the 75 micron filter once a layer of trub has formed across it. I have to continually push the trub aside with a sanitized spoon in order for the wort to find a drainage path.

This is tedious, but it does provide a good degree of aeration, so it's not all bad.

It will flow. Just slow which is what u want. The trub becomes the filter. Don’t stir it. Let it drip. Might take a couple days to finish. Clean wort is your reward

 

[seajellie]

I bought an additional 55 micron one because I couldn't find a 75 micron when I was ready to buy. I'll try to remember to update this thread with how long it takes on my next brew. Sounds like I better be ready to be patient.......

Here's what duda diesel says about the filter sizes, in case it's helpful. And yup, people use them also for paint, honey, etc..

Coarse sand is typically 500-1000um
Medium sand is 250-500um
Fine sand is 125-250um
Very fine sand is 62.5-125um
And silt is 4-62.5 um

 

[McKnuckle]

Just have a sanitized spoon at the ready. Unless you literally want to let the wort sit exposed in the filter for hours, you'll want to do some stirring and pushing the sediment aside. I also suggest doing the best you can to limit break egress from the kettle til the end of transfer. The filter itself can only hold a finite amount of liquid.

 

[odie]

DO NOT STIR IT...that just forces trub/silt/debris through the mesh screen. Here is how you do this...

1. chill the wort in the kettle as much as you can or feel like and then remove the immersion chiller.
2. leave the kettle covered and alone for a few hours. Covered it's not going to get anything nefarious into the wort. Give the wort time to drop all the trub below the spigot.
3. place bucket fermenter with bucket strainer inserted under the kettle spigot and drain clear wort through the filter into the bucket. I place my bucket & filter so the spigot flows onto the outer edge of the strainer frame and not directly onto the mesh screen. this seems to prevent any sediment from being forced thru the screen and instead retained in the filter.
4. after a few minutes when the spigot flow is done you may have a fine layer of trub forming the initial "filter bed" in the bucket strainer.
5. when the spigot stops flowing clear wort go ahead and either tilt the kettle to get the bottom trubby wort through the spigot or you can just pick up the kettle and pour all the dregs slowly into the bucket strainer.
6. all this trub from the kettle bottom will quickly clog up the strainer. The bucket strainers will hold the entire contents below the spigot on most kettles.
7. place your bucket lid on top of the bucket strainer and let time be your friend. All that nice wort will work it's way through the strainer into the fermenter below in a few hours or overnight.

Optional stuff:
1. pitch yeast before inserting bucket strainer just before opening spigot if your kettle has dropped to pitching temperature. Your wort will be aerated at this time
2. place fermenter with strainer in place and dripping in your fermentation chamber if you like or if it's still too hot for yeast. Let it drip and cool at the same time.
3. You could even leave the strainer in place for a little while during early fermentation if you have enough space below the strainer for the krausen. You might need a 6.5-7 gal bucket to pull this off or have less than a 5 gal batch.

 

[mbecker1765]

I end up with about 4l of wort left in my kettle which i pour into jugs. Once its settled i decant and dilute to 1040 for starter wort. There is no hop trub as i use nylon nut milk bags for all my hops.

Brilliant idea!

 

[Carolina_Matt]

My 200 micron biodiesel filter arrived recently, and I used it yesterday fore the first time. I severely underestimated how much it would leave behind, and how long it would actually take to filter everything out! I started with 5.25-5.3 gallons in the kettle, and for the first 40 minutes I was using a stainless steel spoon to move the junk out of the way. Otherwise, it was dripping down one drop at a time. After 40 minutes, I finally had poured everything out of the kettle, and the filter was at the very top.

I put a lid on it, then came back 50 minutes later. It was done, about 90 minutes from start to finish. The resulting cake was impressive - it was at least 1/2" high, spanning the entire bottom of the filter.

I used 5 ounces of hops, which is a lot for me. My next batch will be a lightly hopped Blonde Ale, so I assume it'll be faster. I plan on seeing if I can use my original colander as a pre-filter, to get most of the bigger stuff. Then the biodiesel filter can just focus on the smaller stuff. It'll be a little bit of trial and error, but overall I couldn't believe how much it filtered out.

 

[shetc]

Dump it all in

 

[seajellie]

Carolina_M, you could also try just running your clear wort into the primary as you normally do, and when it starts to get cloudy, stop the run. Then insert the bucket filter, and either restart to run off the wort, or gently dump the rest of the wort directly into the filter.

I've done the "dump once cloudy" method twice now with my 55 micron filter, and it finished draining in very short time. Not sure exactly, but under 30 minutes for sure. Both batches used just under 2.5 oz of hops (lagers). One was all pellets, other batch was mix of leaf and pellet. I did not have to use a spoon, just let gravity and the filter do the work.

I assume dumping in like this does allow more trub into your primary, because you're only filtering the last gallon or so, and a lot will rush in before the filter bed is completely set. But it's not terrible, judging from how the yeast cake looked afterwards. I felt fine with harvesting the yeast and reusing without washing, despite a bit of obvious hop and trub bits. (I don't really believe in yeast washing anywho.)

I might try running the whole batch through the 55 filter when I can watch it. In all, I've used the 200 and 55 filters twice each. I think this is a standard brewing procedure for me from now on.

 

[Snuffy]

Here's a crazy idea... hang the hop spider over the side of your kettle during the boil and toss all your hops in there.

 

[seajellie]

It's not just about the hops. I repitch my yeast ten times or so; I'm trying to keep out break as well. And I've already proven to myself that *my* beers are markedly improved when trub and hops are kept out of the primary (see previous). YMMV.

 

[Snuffy]

It's not just about the hops. I repitch my yeast ten times or so; I'm trying to keep out break as well. And I've already proven to myself that *my* beers are markedly improved when trub and hops are kept out of the primary (see previous). YMMV.

Repitch? Is that a thing or do you just really enjoy adding yeast? What do you see as the unique benefit of this method? I am intrigued.

 

[khannon]

Snuffy,.
I'm guessing re-use, or put fresh wort on the yeast cake..

Seajellie,
I'm not going to argue whether *your* beers are better keeping the hops and trub from the primary. Just like I'm not going to argue (outside a few styles) that LODO makes enough of a difference to invest tons of effort into.. This being said, once I figured out CO2 transfers, LODO or not, the back savings alone are worth it.. I whirlpool and transfer most of it.. Using a hop spider helps.
A suggestion though.. If you save and do starters, just overbuild the starter, pitch what you need save the rest.. Unstressed yeast for the win.

 

[odie]

I started with 5.25-5.3 gallons in the kettle, and for the first 40 minutes I was using a stainless steel spoon to move the junk out of the way. Otherwise, it was dripping down one drop at a time.

you are doing it wrong. never scrap or stir the trub in the bucket strainer.

1. You must let the kettle settle an hour or so. absolutely no disturbance.

2. then place the bucket strainer/fermenter bucket combo under the spigot with the spigot at the very edge/side of the strainer. carefully and slowly open the spigot. you want a very slow/weak pour. this will prevent most of the trub layer from being pulled into the spigot. depending on how much grain, hops and other stuff that went into your kettle will determine just how fast you can run the spigot. all you want is clean settled wort which will flow thru the strainer fast and easy depending on what spigot setting keeps the wort clear.

3. After a short while the spigot should run dry and leave you with a gallon of trub in the kettle. tilt the kettle to start getting the trub out the spigot until the bucket strainer clogs up. then pick the kettle up and dump EVERYTHING in.

4. The bucket strainer will hold that last gallon of pure nasty trub. Cover it up or place inside your fermentation chamber and tomorrow you will have a solid pack of trub in the strainer and ALL the clean wort in the bucket below.