A little help please.. (first RO brew)

[user 214470]

I've just bought a RO filtering system and all the brewing minerals, salts, acids, PH meter, calibration etc., and finally want to brew a beer with a "known water".

I'm brewing a Doppelbock. Since it's my first water adjustment I want to follow these basic guidelines I found in this forum:

Baseline: Add 1 tsp of calcium chloride dihydrate (what your LHBS sells) to each 5 gallons of water treated. Add 2% sauermalz to the grist.

Deviate from the baseline as follows:
- For soft water beers (i.e Pils, Helles). Use half the baseline amount of calcium chloride and increase the sauermalz to 3%
- For beers that use roast malt (Stout, porter): Skip the sauermalz.
- For British beers: Add 1 tsp gypsum as well as 1 tsp calcium chloride
- For very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum.​

Now, I would not even ask if I would brew a Pilsner or a Stout, but how does the Doppelbock compares to these guidelines? To me it looks like it's pretty much mix of all (Malty, minerally, slightly roasty), so what would be the best salt editions?

Quick grist info:
Munich: 55%
Pilsner: 37%
Crystal (75L): 3.7%
Special B (130L): 2.3%
Chocolate (300L): 1.8%

Also (sorry I'm European) - what would be the exact conversion from US teaspoon (tsp) to grams? (I often see this measurement, but not sure how big is that teaspoon you have in mind...).

Thanks!

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

Sounds like you've already found the Brew Science forum. Good. The next thing to do is download Martin's Bru'NWater spread sheet. It's free. It has a little bit of a learning curve but is well worth it. Read the instructions page. You enter your water report on one page, your grain bill on another, and your water additions on another. In your case, you can just use 100% dilution with RO water on the water additions page and don't need your home water results. There are various preloaded water profiles you can use to develop your profile ("yellow bitter", "dark malty", etc.). You can then enter quantities of calcium chloride, gypsum, etc. on the water additions page until the results match your chosen profile.

I know this probably sounds like another language right now but it will make sense once you use it. Also, if you have any questions, Martin hangs out in the Brew Science forum. Good luck.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

A teaspoon is 5mL. The problem with that measurement for Calcium chloride is that is could be powder, flakes or granules, each of which will measure differently. It's around 3 to 4 grams per Teaspoon.

Using either a teaspoon of Calcium chloride, or 1/2 Teaspoon each of Calcium chloride and gypsum, per 5 gallons of water will work well for this beer without any sour malt/acid malt as there is a reasonable amount of dark crystal and roasted malt.

 

[user 214470]

Thanks Gnomebrewer, I'll try to use your guidelines for this brew. My Calcium Chloride is even weirdier - it's 33% liquid solution, but as far as I know you just need to add triple amount.

As for the brewing chemistry calculators, Bru'nWater seemed a little too complicated for me to start, I tried using the one from "Brewers Friend":
https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/

However after plugging everything into the calculator, I find that to reach i.e. Munich water profile from RO water, I must use Chalk to increase bicarbonate without increasing other minerals (Baking Soda adds too much Sodium). I've read somewhere in the forum that using chalk is bad practice, because it does not dissolve properly... (?) Is there any other way to increase bicarbonate without using Chalk or Baking Soda?

One other thing - even after setting all the minerals correct for the profile, the resulting mash pH is 5.8-5.9, which is way too high. I can reduce with Phosphoric or Lactic acid, but then what's the point in adjusting the water with minerals in the first place...?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

One other thing - even after setting all the minerals correct for the profile, the resulting mash pH is 5.8-5.9, which is way too high. I can reduce with Phosphoric or Lactic acid, but then what's the point in adjusting the water with minerals in the first place...?

You are absolutely correct, there is no point! Basically, don't follow water profiles - you can use them as a guide for the flavour ions (sulfate, chloride, sodium, magnesium) but don't copy their alkalinity because you'll often end up adding alkalinity and an acid. Just add the salts you want to reach the levels of Ca, Cl, SO4, Mg, Na then use acid to lower pH, or bicarb or chalk to raise pH.

I've read somewhere in the forum that using chalk is bad practice, because it does not dissolve properly... (?) Is there any other way to increase bicarbonate without using Chalk or Baking Soda?

Chalk doesn't dissolve in water, but will work to lower the pH of the mash. It only works to about 50% of it's fully dissolved potential though. You can dissolve chalk using CO2, but most wouldn't bother. There are other bases you can use as well, but I prefer Baking Soda. I dissolves easily, and IMO adding Sodium is good for beer. Many brewers seem to avoid it, thinking it will make their beer salty, but this doesn't happen until levels are very high (I think Palmer, in How to Brew, lists about 150ppm).

 

[user 214470]

Yeah, I've heard about the idea of not following the "City" water profiles, as I guess the brewers probably somewhat adjusted the source water anyway... So you're saying - just ignore the "City profile" bicarbonate (HCO3-), prioritize the pH, and it should be ok?

As for the chalk, I would have added it directly into the mash, but if it's working at 50% potential, then probably not worth it. I guess adding 2x amount of chalk doesn't fix this?

And about Baking Soda and the 150ppm level - it's a golden tip for me, thanks, I didn't know that! Definitely gonna make a note on that I guess I'm pretty safe then using baking soda.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Adding 2x the amount of chalk does fix the problem, just be careful as the calculator you use may or may not already account for it (i.e. the calculator may only work on half the carbonate's alkalinity). Too much chalk can, rather unsurprisingly, taste chalky!
Regarding baking soda, that's 150ppm of Sodium in the finished water (and that's from memory, best to check if you're going to look at high rates). It's definitely easier to use than chalk.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

I agree with Gnomebrewer about using bases. Just add your mineral additions (calcium, gypsum, etc) to get your profile. Then you can use acid to lower your pH (light beers) or base to raise it (dark beers). I usually use pickling lime to raise pH since it doesn't add sodium and mixes easily. You can get a bag at Wal-Mart that will last a lifetime for cheap.

 

[user 214470]

One more thing - when batch sparging, can I just treat the mash water, then batch sparge using RO water and then add the remaining minerals directly to the kettle?

I think it would be easier for me to calculate exact amounts of minerals for the remaining of the wort, to make sure all the "planned" minerals are there.

Any downsides of using untreated RO for sparging?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Yes, you can do it that way.

Untreated RO for sparging is good.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

I usually treat all the water and then separate the sparge water. You don't have to but it's easy enough that's it's not a hassle.

 

[user 214470]

I'm a little worried about some minerals staying on the walls of the HLT, as I've noticed the residue accumulates there quickly (using my tap water). I'm sure it's probably not a big deal, but I'd rather measure out mineral amounts for all water, then divide them for adding directly to mash, then sparge using RO, and then add the remaining minerals directly to kettle. Technically that works the same, right?

Btw, sorry for n00b question, but why does my Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom Salt) says:
"To be added AFTER the water has been boiled"
Does this mean it can't be added to mash?