A little confused

[redrocker652002]

Getting ready to do a Morebeer kit and put the info into Brewfather. My issue is simple, I think. More beer has me using about 3.5 gallons of mash water, while Brewfather says it should be a bit over 5 gallons? If I do the 3 gallons I can do a BIAB method as I have a 5 gallon kettle. That means I will be using about 4.5 gallons of sparge water. Not a big deal as I can do either. Just curious what you all would do?

 

[tracer bullet]

Guessing that you've got brewing experience, would suggest doing whatever you normally do. It's just an ingredients kit, your normal method should be fine.

BIAB with 3 - 4 gallons sounds good! Sparge the rest.

 

[redrocker652002]

Guessing that you've got brewing experience, would suggest doing whatever you normally do. It's just an ingredients kit, your normal method should be fine.

BIAB with 3 - 4 gallons sounds good! Sparge the rest.

First time using my cooler mash tun, so I am a little unsure. Thank you for the reply.

 

[cubalz]

why not just do full volume, no sparge?

 

[redrocker652002]

why not just do full volume, no sparge?

I guess I could try that. I thought maybe sparging would grab a bit more of the sugars in the mash. I have never tried that though, so maybe a good idea to give it a go. Thanks for replying

 

[cubalz]

I stopped any kind of sparging many years ago and add an extra 1/2 lb. of or so of grain to make up for the couple of gravity points of loss. Sparging is not worth the work IMHO and I am not alone in that sentiment with those well respected in the field.

 

[doug293cz]

I guess I could try that. I thought maybe sparging would grab a bit more of the sugars in the mash. I have never tried that though, so maybe a good idea to give it a go. Thanks for replying

All else being equal, adding a single batch sparge will give you about 8 percentage points higher lauter efficiency (a measure of how much of the sugar in a mash makes it into the BK) than a no sparge. However, with BIAB and a very long bag drain, you can get lower grain absorption than a traditional MLT. and cut the difference to about 4 percentage points, or less.

Brew on

 

[redrocker652002]

OK guys, thanks to all who replied. So, I think I will try a full volume mash and see what happens. This is a new process for me. I have some light DME, I guess if I fall short I can add a bit of that to up the OG, right?

 

[doug293cz]

OK guys, thanks to all who replied. So, I think I will try a full volume mash and see what happens. This is a new process for me. I have some light DME, I guess if I fall short I can add a bit of that to up the OG, right?

Adding DME to the boil is the standard way of making up for an SG shortfall after the mash.

Brew on

 

[redrocker652002]

cool. thanks. so if the preboil falls a bit short, I can add the dme to the boil kettle and try and make up the difference? I am sorry for being so stupid, but I just spent about 50 bucks for the cooler and setup, so I want to try and use it. LOL. I am thinking about maybe a 4 to 5 gallon mash for 60 mins. Then a 2 to 3 gallon sparge as I need about 7 gallons to allow for boil off in my boil. I need to get to about 1.055 OG and about 1.010 FG. I know these numbers will not be perfect, but that is the plan. If this doesn't work, I can always go back to BIAB. But, I wanted to give this a try.

 

[tracer bullet]

^ First off, no stupid questions, if you're new to this it's how it goes. Anyone here replying is happy to help. We've all been there.

I didn't know you had a cooler in addition to the kettle, thought you were limited to 5 gallons before things sloshed out. A cooler (assuming it's a decent size) does expand the options.

You didn't say which kit you have, but assuming it's fairly standard, 7.5 gallons for mashing is a reasonable start. By the times the grains come out you my have about 6.5 gallons of wort, down to say 5.5 after boiling. These numbers are far from exact but can give you a picture of what's up. Each gallon less than 7.5 for the mash is a gallon that can be used to sparge.

However, you said you have a 5 gallon boil kettle? If so, this won't work... You post above mentioned you could start with 7 though, so I'm not sure.

 

[redrocker652002]

^ First off, no stupid questions, if you're new to this it's how it goes. Anyone here replying is happy to help. We've all been there.

I didn't know you had a cooler in addition to the kettle, thought you were limited to 5 gallons before things sloshed out. A cooler (assuming it's a decent size) does expand the options.

You didn't say which kit you have, but assuming it's fairly standard, 7.5 gallons for mashing is a reasonable start. By the times the grains come out you my have about 6.5 gallons of wort, down to say 5.5 after boiling. These numbers are far from exact but can give you a picture of what's up. Each gallon less than 7.5 for the mash is a gallon that can be used to sparge.

However, you said you have a 5 gallon boil kettle? If so, this won't work... You post above mentioned you could start with 7 though, so I'm not sure.

Thank you. I apologise, I am all over the place here. Let me put what I have and what I am going for. My kit is an all grain Citra Pale Ale from Morebeer. My boil kettle is a 10 gallon kettle with a bazooka screen. I made a hop spider to try and cut out as much of the crap as I can, and it seems to have worked out well. My mash tun is a converted 10 gallon cooler that I bought for 20 bucks. I added a screen from a water supply line minus the inside rubber hose and am running food grade tubing out of it onto a valve and then into the boil kettle. Last brew I had about 7 gallons of water in the kettle and ended up with about 5 gallons of beer into the fementer, so that is my starting point. If I fall short I can always add. This being my first run with the cooler I am not sure what the efficiency is going to be, so I am kinda in uncharted water for me, so to speak. LOL. If my preboil falls short I found a calculator to add some DME to the wort prior to boil and see where it ends up. My hope is this setup will work, but if not I can always go back to my BIAB and do that.

 

[redrocker652002]

Gave up trying. I cannot get the water in the cooler temp to stay at 152 for more than 5 mins. I am going to full volume BIAB this time an work a bit more on the cooler when I have time and my back isn't so jacket up. Thanks to all who tried. I appreciate it.

 

[tracer bullet]

Ideas for next time -

Use a calculator ahead of time to determine your mash water temperature desired (prior to adding the grains), so that when you mash in things will balance out (x gallons hot water + y pounds room temp grain) to the target mash temp. For example, something like 7 gallons of water at 160F plus something like 14 pounds of grain at room temp will all come together and balance mass / temperatures out to a fairly typical mash temperature. Not exact numbers but gives the idea.

Heat the mash water up in the boil kettle to 5-10 degrees over desired (recommended by the calculator per above), pour it into the cooler, let it sit 5-10 minutes to sort of "preheat" the cooler, while monitoring the temperature with a thermometer. When the water has actually reached your target temperature, then mash in. So let's say you want 160F water - get it to 170, then put it in the cooler, and wait for it to hit 160, then mash in.

If you don't mess with it too much, expect about a 5 degree drop over an hour. If you want a mash temp of 152... maybe put 155 in the calculator and expect it'll start around there and be at maybe 150 by the time you are done. Also - don't worry about it too much! Anything in the low 150's is A-OK. You can really get frustrated trying to make it perfect. Every time you open the lid, it cools more.

 

[Kickass]

Don’t get discouraged, igloo coolers are great mash tuns. I used one with great results for years. As tracer bullet stated, start high and add grains when the water settled after initial heat loss.

Most conversion happens within 20 minutes so if you’re within 4 or 5 degrees of the beta and alpha amylase sweet spot (149-156), you’ll be ok.

 

[redrocker652002]

Thanks guys. Here are some final numbers:

I decided to go with a full volume BIAB. 7.5 gallons in the kettle. Temp at 160 plus or minus a degree or two. Grains added temp dropped to about 154. 60 mins boil. Covered the boil kettle with a blanket to try and keep the heat in during the mash, my brother has a few extra moving blankets so I am going to grab one for next time. The seem thicker so more insulation.

After 15 down to about 152
After 30 mins down to about 150
After 45 mins down to about 148
end of boil was about 146

So I don't think that was too bad.

6.5 gallons in the kettle to start the boil, and 5 in the bucket after, so I have a pretty good handle on the boil off as it was pretty consistent with my last one as well.

Preboil Gravity 1.060 per instructions it was supposed to be around 1.050, so I am high, but not a big deal.

60 min boil and OG of 1.055 per instructions it should be anywhere between 1.050 and 1.055 so I feel pretty good now.

Cooled wort to about 70 degrees and pitched a packet of US05 at about 3 or so yesterday afternoon Checked it this morning, the closet is at about 65 degrees, a bit on the cold side but I think I am still alright. The heater I have did not kick on, I forgot to turn it on (Darwin award for me on that one), so I turned it on and have my closet set to about 68 degrees. All the liguid in the airlock has pushed to the exit side of it, so there must be some pressure going on. I pushed the lid, and I am wondering if I don't have a good seal but if not, that is ok. So now, I wait. I will check the gravity in about two weeks and go from there. I am hopeful since I hit my OG that the wort is where it should be. After a few fails it will be nice if this one works out.

Also, doing some online research, I think I am in the area of 70 to 71 percent efficiency. I don't think that is too bad either. So, all in all, other than not being able to use my new toy, I am pretty happy with the results. Now, let's see how it tastes in about 3 to 4 weeks LOL

 

[tracer bullet]

Sounds like you got it! Nice.

Next time try the cooler, do the thing where you heat the water to maybe 170, throw it in the cooler, let it get down to about 160, then get your grains in and close the lid. I think you'll see less temperature drop over the next hour vs the kettle, even with the blankets. That said - you still got fine temps so it's not something to worry about. Just how you can use the cooler if you desire.

PS you wrote "boil" a few times where I think you meant "mash". Just for future reference.

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks guys. Here are some final numbers:

I decided to go with a full volume BIAB. 7.5 gallons in the kettle. Temp at 160 plus or minus a degree or two. Grains added temp dropped to about 154. 60 mins boil. Covered the boil kettle with a blanket to try and keep the heat in during the mash, my brother has a few extra moving blankets so I am going to grab one for next time. The seem thicker so more insulation.

After 15 down to about 152
After 30 mins down to about 150
After 45 mins down to about 148
end of boil was about 146

So I don't think that was too bad.

6.5 gallons in the kettle to start the boil, and 5 in the bucket after, so I have a pretty good handle on the boil off as it was pretty consistent with my last one as well.

Preboil Gravity 1.060 per instructions it was supposed to be around 1.050, so I am high, but not a big deal.

60 min boil and OG of 1.055 per instructions it should be anywhere between 1.050 and 1.055 so I feel pretty good now.

Cooled wort to about 70 degrees and pitched a packet of US05 at about 3 or so yesterday afternoon Checked it this morning, the closet is at about 65 degrees, a bit on the cold side but I think I am still alright. The heater I have did not kick on, I forgot to turn it on (Darwin award for me on that one), so I turned it on and have my closet set to about 68 degrees. All the liguid in the airlock has pushed to the exit side of it, so there must be some pressure going on. I pushed the lid, and I am wondering if I don't have a good seal but if not, that is ok. So now, I wait. I will check the gravity in about two weeks and go from there. I am hopeful since I hit my OG that the wort is where it should be. After a few fails it will be nice if this one works out.

Most of the conversion occurs in the first 15 minutes so your heat loss is of little consequence. It made wort.

Your preboil of 1.060 is likely a measurement error as your OG is lower than that. Unless you added water to dilute it, the preboil will be lower than the OG as boiloff will concentrate the wort.

Your closet temperature was fine without adding heat. I start US05 at 62, let it free rise to about 64. At the end of a week I move it to a warmer location to let the yeast clean up any intermediate products.

Airlocks are to keep bugs out and entertain the brewer. The lack of bubbles just affects the latter part, the entertainment.

 

[redrocker652002]

Most of the conversion occurs in the first 15 minutes so your heat loss is of little consequence. It made wort.

Your preboil of 1.060 is likely a measurement error as your OG is lower than that. Unless you added water to dilute it, the preboil will be lower than the OG as boiloff will concentrate the wort.

Your closet temperature was fine without adding heat. I start US05 at 62, let it free rise to about 64. At the end of a week I move it to a warmer location to let the yeast clean up any intermediate products.

Airlocks are to keep bugs out and entertain the brewer. The lack of bubbles just affects the latter part, the entertainment.

I think you are right about the preboil gravity. I may have misread, but I am pretty sure I got the OG right as I checked it like 3 or 4 times. LOL.

Thanks for the info. I am going to adjust it a bit then as it has turned colder here in the san francisco area. Either way, I am pretty happy with the way this one worked out. Gives me some hope that I may be able to do this after all. LOL

 

[redrocker652002]

Sounds like you got it! Nice.

Next time try the cooler, do the thing where you heat the water to maybe 170, throw it in the cooler, let it get down to about 160, then get your grains in and close the lid. I think you'll see less temperature drop over the next hour vs the kettle, even with the blankets. That said - you still got fine temps so it's not something to worry about. Just how you can use the cooler if you desire.

PS you wrote "boil" a few times where I think you meant "mash". Just for future reference.

Thank you for pointing that out. My jargon still needs a bit of refining. LOL.

 

[doug293cz]

Preboil Gravity 1.060 per instructions it was supposed to be around 1.050, so I am high, but not a big deal.

60 min boil and OG of 1.055 per instructions it should be anywhere between 1.050 and 1.055 so I feel pretty good now.

It is not possible for OG (post-boil SG) to be less than pre-boil SG, unless you added more water during the boil than you boiled off. So either you have some transcription error(s) or measurement error(s).

A good way to check whether or not all of your measurements are self consistent is to see if the following formula checks out:

(Pre-boil SG - 1) * Pre-boil Volume = (OG - 1) * Post-boil Volume​

Brew on

 

[redrocker652002]

It is not possible for OG (post-boil SG) to be less than pre-boil SG, unless you added more water during the boil than you boiled off. So either you have some transcription error(s) or measurement error(s).

A good way to check whether or not all of your measurements are self consistent is to see if the following formula checks out:

(Pre-boil SG - 1) * Pre-boil Volume = (OG - 1) * Post-boil Volume​

Brew on

I think you are very correct. I think it was my error. I think it was at 1050 and I read it wrong. Either way, I am pretty confident of the 1.055 into the fementer so all is good. Rock on!!!!

 

[MagicRat]

I have used the same 10G Igloo mash tun for every batch I've ever brewed. I preheat it with a couple gallons of 170F water. I typically lose about 12F from strike water to get to the desired mash temp. I always mash for 60 minutes and stir at 15 minute intervals. I find that I typically only lose 2-4F over the course of the 60 minutes. I think the key is just knowing what to expect from your system and process = repeatability and predictability.

 

[bracconiere]

Gave up trying. I cannot get the water in the cooler temp to stay at 152 for more than 5 mins. I am going to full volume BIAB this time an work a bit more on the cooler when I have time and my back isn't so jacket up. Thanks to all who tried. I appreciate it.

not sure if this was said, but grain adds a lot of thermal mass....

 

[Kickass]

My insulation technique when using an igloo is this: once mashed in and sealed up place igloo in large cardboard moving box. Then wrap a big sleeping bag around and over the lid.

I’m not sure if the box was necessary or helped but it was easy and convenient. I’d lose between 2 and 5 degrees over an hour.

I also only opened to stir one time (15 minutes in) after sealing it up.