A Life Altering Decision

[SkewedBrewing]

I have a pretty big question to ask pertaining to a possibly life altering decision I will be making in the next year or so and I thought, seeing as people from all walks of life and different ages are on HBT, I'd ask it here first.

I went to OU and got a Communications Degree (Video Production) but have found that with every passing year I want almost nothing to do with this industry. My hobby/passion has always been history, specifically Pre-Revolutionary America and Renaissance Europe, and I know that what I really should be doing with my life is to go into academia and pursue history.

So my question is, how hard do you think it will be to get into a decent school/Masters program with a Communications BA for my undergrad? Also, how hard will it be to get money/grants/scholarships/a stipend to do so?

Any opinions/suggestions would be great.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

It'll be impossible if you don;t try.

 

[arturo7]

Don't worry if it is hard or easy. If you want it, go for it.

 

[SkewedBrewing]

Thanks, guys. It definitely comes down to my desire to do it, which I have a lot of.

 

[thataintchicken]

use your video production background as a tool to help bring history to others.
Think documentaries etc.

 

[neko]

I got a communications degree for my undergrad, but I wasn't going where I wanted to go either. I went back to school for Accounting and now I'm a CPA so if you want to go back to school you should do it.

With the economy going the way it is many people have gone back to school so it may be a little more difficult to get into a program. I don't know the Chicago area, but I'm guessing that there are a lot of higher education choices around. Also, you may have to take some pre-requisite classes before starting your actual program and I recommend taking those at the community college since the cost is way cheaper for the same class.

I don't know how hard it is to get scholarships and grants, but there's a lot out there and if you apply to a bunch then you will probably get something back. That's my suggestions.

 

[dougf]

Also, consider a National Guard or Reserve component (if active duty isnt your thing) to pay for your education if thats an issue.

Go for what you want. Dont look back and regret. If your single, GO FOR IT AND DONT LOOK BACK! If your married with children, good luck

 

[JetSmooth]

use your video production background as a tool to help bring history to others.
Think documentaries etc.

+1

Try getting in with a historical foudnation or something. I was (emphasis on the was) a theater major and always wanted to move to Williamsburg, VA to work with the Williamsburg historical foundation. They produce videos and stuff for their museum.

Live your dream.

 

[mightynintendo]

Your undergrad doesn't really matter when it comes to most graduate programs. For instance, almost any BS can be accepted into med school with the right grades, references and test scores. And a master's in history is, as far as I know, an MA which is good because that means you don't need a BS to get in.

There's a test you need to take before getting in to grad school called the GRE. What you make on the GRE will have a significant impact on getting accepted into most graduate programs. So....

START STUDYING FOR THE GRE!!!!!! (It's a difficult test but not as hard as the FE exaxm).

 

[SkewedBrewing]

I got a communications degree for my undergrad, but I wasn't going where I wanted to go either. I went back to school for Accounting and now I'm a CPA so if you want to go back to school you should do it.

With the economy going the way it is many people have gone back to school so it may be a little more difficult to get into a program. I don't know the Chicago area, but I'm guessing that there are a lot of higher education choices around. Also, you may have to take some pre-requisite classes before starting your actual program and I recommend taking those at the community college since the cost is way cheaper for the same class.

Its good to know someone has done something similar to what I'm planning on doing. And I don't have much intention to stay in Chicago for grad school, so I am willing to go pretty much anywhere, especially anywhere with better weather (I grew up in Cleveland and I'm not a fan of Winter).

On a similar note, I currently work for a pretty good University here in Chicago and I plan on taking a few history classes over the next year to help get me in gear/figure out if this is really what I want.

Go for what you want. Dont look back and regret. If your single, GO FOR IT AND DONT LOOK BACK! If your married with children, good luck

I've got a girlfriend, but she know of all of my intentions, so I will definitely be going for it!

 

[Buffman]

I am definitely NOT trying to throw a wet blanket on OP's dreams; the following comments are from my experience only. I have a Master's Degree in history (medieval Europe). I went into the field intending to earn a Ph.D and teach. When our class finished the Master's program, we looked around at the job market for teaching and the news was not good. For example, one of the positions at the time was for a history instructor or associate professor at Mesa State College in Grand Junction, Colorado. The college received 700 applications. The mid-level university I attended was staffed itself with Ivy League history degrees (even those folks had a hard time getting a better position). At that point, I decided to find another career path away from history. My wife, who also earned a MA in history (pre-industrial US), made it into a career, but not in academia. She works for the government doing "applied" or public history. There are jobs for historians outside of academia; given the the market, I recommend looking into what else you can do with the degree (e.g., historic preservation), just in case.

To answer OP's questions directly, a communications degree should not prevent you from getting into a program. My undergrad degree was in psychology and I got into several. To maximize your chances, I'd focus on the GRE. In my experience, grad programs rely heavily on GRE scores as an admissions tool. Those scores are also seen by those offering scholarships, etc. If you can afford it, a GRE exam prep class would not be a bad idea.

Probably more information that OP was looking for, but the post spoke to me and I had to share.

 

[SkewedBrewing]

This definitely puts a damper on my aspirations a bit, because I definitely want to go into teaching and research after all is said and done. The concept of teaching and researching these subjects coupled with living in a college town and having the option to lead trips and take summers off is insanely appealing to me.

For the sake of conversation, Buffman, can you elaborate a little on your experiences? How long ago was this? Is this something that pertains to all fields, because I want to go into Social history or Jeffersonian history? What did you ultimately end up doing? I take it most Universities are no good at job placement or even taking care of their own. What about European Universities, is the job market any better there, do you think?

 

[david_42]

My eldest BIL has a Masters in history and his BA in teaching. When he started applying for jobs (high school) he only got one response. That was a phone call, which came down to: you aren't even in the top half of the people applying for the history position, but with your minor in math you can start here tomorrow. He's retired, never taught anything except math.

 

[Buffman]

I finished my MA in 1993. The job market may have changed since, but I urge you to check it out so your eyes are open going in. I can't say whether the market for all history disciplines is the same; I expect that it is, since there'll only be a certain number of openings in any particular discipline in any given year. My department was absolutely no good for job placement; a few of my classmates' professors were able to hook them up with instructor positions, but that was a function of their personal relationships, not the department. Other universities may be better. I can't speak to foreign universities. I'd think the demand for American history instructors overseas is not great, but I could be wrong. Out of grad school, I worked a few menial jobs and one with a historic preservation firm before going to law school (I decided to preserve my marriage by not competing with my wife for history positions). It turns out the research, writing, and speaking skills for history transfer well to practicing law.

 

[Palefire]

I'm finishing up my PhD in a humanities field in a major research university, so I may be able to help some here ...

Your undergrad major isn't usually that important when you apply for grad programs. Getting into a History dept. with a communications degree shouldn't be a problem. What's more important is that your application demonstrates that you know (at least to some degree) how work is done in the field to which you're applying. Having interest in a field is one thing; knowing how academics in that field work, what sorts of questions they find interesting, what counts as good research, etc., is another. I'd definitely recommend taking some classes in history before you apply - this will allow you to 1) get a sense of how the field works, 2) use one of those classes to generate a writing sample that you can use for your application, 3) get to know one or two professors in History who can then write you recommendations! The more you can do to demonstrate that you're actually interested in History as an academic field as opposed to a topic of general interest to you, the less people will care about your undergrad degree.

GRE scores are important in some fields, less important in others. I'm not in History, but my general sense is that GRE scores aren't so important there - once your scores are over a certain threshold (which varies from school to school), nobody really cares.

Something like money/grants/stipends/funding opportunities also varies greatly from school to school. I'd do some research on the schools to which you're intending to apply to see what students there tend to do for funding.

Given that, though, I'd very strongly urge you to think about why you want to get an MA in History. In general, MA's don't help you to get so many jobs - it used to be the case that, in general, PhD's got jobs at 4-year universities and MA's got jobs a community colleges and the like. Now, however, there are so many PhD's out there looking for jobs that 2-year colleges and even high schools are starting to hire more of them. Also, in general, MA programs (especially terminal MA programs) don't fund very well, and most ask you to go into debt for a number of years. I'm not trying to be discouraging in any way; it's just that I've had plenty of friends who decided to get MA's without thinking very hard about how doing so would impact their future. While almost all of them loved the 2 or 3 years they spent back in school, most of them also finished up in (sometimes major) debt, struggling because even with their MA's they weren't appreciably more employable than they were before going back to school. Most of them have since gone on to work in other fields (especially law).

Put differently, I'd really really recommend doing more research before applying - look at the various schools you're thinking about (or visit!) and try to find out as much as you can about 1) what funding opportunities are available, and, more importantly, 2) what most their grads do after getting degrees. Lots of schools bury that information, or list only the small percentage of highly successful alumni on their websites. Not at all to say that you shouldn't go for it - you should! - but, as numerous other posters have suggested, try to do so with your eyes as open as possible.

If there are any other questions I can help with, feel free to post here or to PM me!

 

[SkewedBrewing]

Thanks for the in depth, serious responses, guys. They are definitely appreciated, I'm glad I posted here (you can always count on fellow homebrewers).

That being said, I definitely intend to take a couple history classes here where I work to take advantage of the discounted costs, really good name attached to the class/professors, and to get some papers to submit with my applications.

Another thing to note is that I definitely don't want just an MA. I fully intend to go on to get my Phd, however I don't know of many places that would let me in to there programs without an MA first to transition to a Phd, if I am wrong with this information, please let me know.

I, also, understand that most Universities (I'm an adjunct, I work with full time faculty everyday) go with the philosophy of publish or perish. To me, writing about this stuff isn't a problem, its something I can definitely see myself doing, so the research side isn't a problem. I am, however, feeling a little discouraged by what you guys are saying about the job market for Phds. I always just assumed that if you were willing to put in all the work, it would pay off 5-6 years down the line when you publish your dissertation/thesis. It seems like that might not be the case anymore?

 

[Buffman]

Another thing to note is that I definitely don't want just an MA. I fully intend to go on to get my Phd, however I don't know of many places that would let me in to there programs without an MA first to transition to a Phd, if I am wrong with this information, please let me know.

Not necessarily true. Some programs are like that, but others accept Ph.D students with Master's from other schools. After finishing my MA, I was accepted into a few Ph.D programs to continue study (before deciding not to).

 

[Palefire]

Another thing to note is that I definitely don't want just an MA. I fully intend to go on to get my Phd, however I don't know of many places that would let me in to there programs without an MA first to transition to a Phd, if I am wrong with this information, please let me know.

Ok, different situation entirely! Well, different programs function differently, but the majority of PhD programs accept people for the PhD program itself, rather than accepting them for the MA and then deciding to move them up or not. There are some notable exceptions, but on the whole you'll just apply to the PhD program. How the MA is handled internally varies by program, with some using it as a major stepping stone, and some not really caring about it at all (my program is of the latter type - getting an MA is simply a matter of having completed enough coursework and passing the requisite first-year exam, so in the process of going through the program at some point you just kind of have an MA).

So I'd not worry about MA programs and just look at PhD programs. The good thing there is that most good PhD programs fund their students, so while you won't make much money in school, you won't end up in debt. One piece of advice: DON'T even consider going to a school that doesn't fund you (even if that funding comes through teaching) for AT LEAST 5 years.

I, also, understand that most Universities (I'm an adjunct, I work with full time faculty everyday) go with the philosophy of publish or perish. To me, writing about this stuff isn't a problem, its something I can definitely see myself doing, so the research side isn't a problem. I am, however, feeling a little discouraged by what you guys are saying about the job market for Phds. I always just assumed that if you were willing to put in all the work, it would pay off 5-6 years down the line when you publish your dissertation/thesis. It seems like that might not be the case anymore?

No, unfortunately it's not. Honestly, the job market for PhD's just sucks. Badly. There are far more PhD's granted each year than there are jobs available for them. And the pool of tenure-track jobs is shrinking every year. That's just a fact. The unfortunate result is that many many amazingly smart and capable people end up basically without jobs after having worked their asses off for the past 6-8 years. This happens even to graduates of Ivy League and other top research universities. I work in what is often ranked as the #1 department in my field (I say this just for statistical information, not to hype my own position!), and every year I have many brilliant friends who apply to 50+ positions and hear from none of them (i.e. don't even get called for an interview). Most that I know end up cobbling together various adjunct jobs that can at least (minimally) pay the rent, but because they have to teach so much they're don't have the time to work on their own research, making it even more difficult to get a tenure-track job.

It's dire. And there's no guaranteed payoff. Not even close. The competition is extremely fierce, and everyone is qualified - for every PhD who gets hired, there are probably 50 more who would have also been great in the position. A lot of people come to grad school thinking that because they were one of the best students in their college, they'll easily be the best student in grad school. What they overlook is that everyone in grad school was one of the best students in their college. And this is true on the next level, too - people assume that since they're one of the best students in their grad program that they'll easily get a job. But everyone they're up against for that job was also one of the best students in their grad program.

Again, I'm not trying to discourage you - academia is great in lots of ways. I feel extraordinarily privileged to be here (and generally accept that the meager amount of money I make, and will likely continue to make even with a PhD, is the tradeoff I've made for being able to spend most of my time thinking, teaching and writing about a subject about which I care deeply). But it's definitely not a choice to make if job security is what you're looking for.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Let's look at a few facts: you're 25, single, and don't mind moving. Far as I can see, your only problem would be financing. I say go for it! Unless you really hate the video production biz, I'd think you could combine that with your love of history easily enough. You could work a night/morning job at a TV station & go to school during the day if you had to. You could TD a morning news show, get to class on time & still get enough study time & sleep. You might also look into working for a company like Greystone Communications, they do a LOT of stuff for The History Channel. You might also look into getting a gig at The History Channel itself.

BUT, if you want to completely blow off the video prod biz, then you should do so, don't worry too much about what the job market in the history/PHD/teaching fields are right now, it's going to take you a few years to get through school again, so you need to look at what the job market is going to be like in a few years. There was just some new Pell Grant & student loan legislation pushed thru congress, so there will be more people going to school & back to school in the next few years. There are plenty of school systems that are begging for teachers in various subjects. If you're willing to go where others are not, you can find a good paying job. You might end up teaching at an inner city high school, or at some school in a remote area of Alaska, My point here is simply that those jobs often both available & high paying.

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you good luck. Regards, GF.

 

[bierhaus15]

A little late, but as someone with degrees in european history and celtic studies from an ivy league and an European university, I would seriously reconsider going back to school to get a BA in history. Not only is a history degree pretty much worthless for anything other than becoming a high school teacher, but the chances of making it as a college professor in the next decade or so are virtually nil. There are way too many people with phd's out there and not enough viable jobs. And those jobs don't even pay you a livable wage. Want to make 15K a year teaching history at a community or state college??? - become an nontenured history professor. If anything, you would be better off getting a HS teaching degree or going to school for historical preservation or architectural history. While I loved my time spent studying history, I have no plans to make a career out of it. There are just not enough opportunities out there for a lifelong academic career. Instead, I am now going to gradschool for international law and if the world continues to go to hell, job opportunities will be looking good!

Whatever you choose to do, good luck!

 

[SkewedBrewing]

This is what I keep reading. I've been following a few different blogs for the past year or so (phdinhistory.org, AHA, etc.) and it seems that the trend isn't going to change any time soon. I'm glad I've gotten this feedback, because now, it seems, that my dream of being in Academia might have to be altered.

What draws me into academia is, first and foremost the subject matter, but also the freedom to think, write, discuss, go to conferences and teach to others. That being said, I know this is the path I want to go down. Bierhaus, Buffman, you mentioned historical preservation and Architectural history. These are still options, to me. Same with Art History (to a lesser extent). What I mean is that I have enough of an interest in them and they are closely related enough to my preferred areas of study (Ok, maybe not Jeffersonian Philosophy) that I can see myself being just as content studying and teaching under these subjects as I would be doing straightforward history.

I guess what I'm getting at is, are the opportunities to get a tenure-track position for all areas of humanities starting to dwindle? Should I keep my goals set to get a Phd in history and just see what is available once I'm done, even if it be museum work, etc?

 

[Palefire]

I guess what I'm getting at is, are the opportunities to get a tenure-track position for all areas of humanities starting to dwindle? Should I keep my goals set to get a Phd in history and just see what is available once I'm done, even if it be museum work, etc?

FWIW, I'd say "yes" and "sounds smart." It's very clear that the number of tenure-track jobs in the humanities is shrinking. I personally think it's a great idea to go in not necessarily being wedded to getting one of those jobs, since there are clearly lots of other things that one can do with a PhD. It is often tough, though, to keep that perspective on things while in grad school, since so many people in the academy see "tenure-track job" as the only viable goal. So sometimes you might have to hide your potential "extra-curricular job" interests from your advisors. But you definitely seem like the right guy for the job!

The other thing to know is that people's interests often change drastically while in school, so that while you may go in thinking that you definitely want to work on 17th- and 18th-century America (say), you just may end up taking a class on a totally different subject (Medieval China!) and finding yourself fascinated with it. That will likely open up new things to think about, job-wise, too.

Listen: if you want to do it, then you most definitely should. Absolutely! Like GF said, you're 25, single enough, willing to move, motivated, etc. It's a great life if you're ok with some of the tradeoffs you have to make. It's just good to know what some of those tradeoffs are before you go in. But sh*t, man, sometimes you just have to jump off that cliff to see where you land...

Best of luck!

 

[BBKing]

It'll be impossible if you don;t try.

+1000 on this.

My thoughts excatly upon reading the OP.

To the OP, even if you have to do some basic Junior College crap, just friggin do it.

You'll be the man in the end. Good luck to ya!

 

[SkewedBrewing]

+1000 on this.

My thoughts excatly upon reading the OP.

To the OP, even if you have to do some basic Junior College crap, just friggin do it.

You'll be the man in the end. Good luck to ya!

Thanks, BBKing.

 

[SkewedBrewing]

Listen: if you want to do it, then you most definitely should. Absolutely! Like GF said, you're 25, single enough, willing to move, motivated, etc. It's a great life if you're ok with some of the tradeoffs you have to make. It's just good to know what some of those tradeoffs are before you go in. But sh*t, man, sometimes you just have to jump off that cliff to see where you land...

Best of luck!

Thanks, this has all been 110% useful and helpful!