A homebrewer alcoholic?

[Malty_Dog]

Up until I met her I was a case a day guy. If I opened a case of beer I didn't stop til the case was empty and that includes the days I worked 12 hours.
I had to make the decision to continue drinking and put my wife and kids thru the same thing I went through growing up or break the cycle. I broke the cycle. For 15 years I was stone sober. When my kids all hit the age of 21 I drank my first beer in years and have had control every since.
I don't keep any beer in my house, it's all in my unattached garage. I've found that if I don't have direct easy access I occupy my time in other ways. Usually constructive.

I just wanted to step in here to say "congratulations"! Great job man.

 

[MrFeltimo]

I like a drink, and i brew as much as i can afford, im also a horder, i have stacks of home brew in the basement, I might go several days without drinking, i might go several weeks without NOT drinking, what i tend to do is brew low gravity beers, English bitters and such. Truth is once i go on a bender and get waisted it throws my game way off, i suffer for days on end, allways have done.
do every thing in moderation, enjoy the fruits of your labour, enjoy friends, and enjoy life, however you choose to live it out.

 

[cjgenever]

I haven't read all the posts, but here's my .02...

I've been there. I don't think it's something that ever leaves you either. You can't be dependant and then be 'better'. It's always lurking in that bomber you know you don't need but you want to open anyway. I usually am good until I get really gone. Then I'll start tipping anything back when I should be drinking water or coffee. I've made a promise to myself and my family to deal with the issues. It's been a long, and sometimes painful, road. I've decided that if I can't control myself I will stop brewing and drinking. Having multi gallons of delicious beer around may seem counterproductive, but it works for me. It is a constant reminder that I love beer, not alcohol. I can live without getting drunk. I think I could live without beer but would rather not imagine such a fait. I certainly couldn't go on without my family. I do everything for them, and one thing I do for them is continue my hobbies. It keeps my mind clear of the day to day b.s.do I can be happy when I'm with them.

Everyone is different. The only thing we all have in common for sure is you must admit a problem before you can fix it. If you need to ask, then yes, you have a problem. The hard thing is figuring out a fix that everyone can live with and that you can stick with.

WHATEVER YOU DO, don't make promises you can't keep. Either to your S.O. or yourself. It can only lead to disappointment and anger.



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[Homercidal]

Good thread. This hobby can be an excuse for some people to brew and drink all they can't handle.

I drink in moderation as described by the experts in the health industry. 1-2 beers a night. Although I also know that they are discussing a standard ration of alcohol, and craft beer usually has more, so I generally drink 1-1.5 depending on the ABV and how I'm feeling.

When I get together with friends having a good time I tend to overdrink and then pay for it. I usually don't drink for the next 1-2 days due to hangover. I'm sensitive to the symptoms of a hangover, which is good, because it keeps me from wanting to overimbibe very often. However, sometimes when with friends, I am having too good a time and don't recognize when I've had too much.

On the other hand, I am also sensitive to the effects of the alcohol, and can usually feel it within 1 beer. Easily after 2 if it's been between 1-2 hours that I've had them.

One of the reasons I really appreciate my kegging system at home is that I can pour a glass whenever I want, and the other reason is that I can pour only half a glass if I want. It's always fresh and well carbed, unlike bottled beer that tends to change for the worse once it's opened. I try to keep a low ABV beer on one tap so I can have a half glass when I get home. I usually have to drive my daughter somewhere in the afternoon or evening, so half a glass of small beer is much better to wash down a snack than an IPA or RIS! Or if I feel like a little beer before bed I can pour half a glass and not get overfull.

It's good to keep tabs on your consumption.

 

[TopherM]

We have a brewer in our club that brewed beer and distilled whiskey for 20+ years and was struggling with alcoholism the whole time. About 3 years ago, he had a health scare as a result (severe liver damage).

What he did is started brewing soda. He still comes to group brew days and makes soda syrup by boiling fresh fruit and herbs then reducing it down to syrup. He makes some really good stuff, and has even been asked by several local wholefoods stores to scale it up and wholesale it.

He also has a garden at home and makes organic spicy pickles and supplies lots of the other brewers in the club with some fresh beer additives like peppers, basil, etc.

 

[DrunkleJon]

I also feel that the notion that nobody can be fully recovered, that they are recovering until the day they die, to be despicable and self serving to the recovery program. I also take issue to the belief that only a "higher power" is the answer to a dependency. That said, I realize that people have all sorts of problems, and that addressing them is paramount to a life well lived. If you feel like something is controlling your life, take the initiative to fix it.

Being one who has not been through the system and controls his intake pretty well, yet alcoholism "runs in my family" I actually will have to disagree with the first quoted sentence there. I know too many people who are incapable of fully recovering. I mean, I actually have caught him deeply sniffing his hands after using hand sanitizer for the alcohol as he craves it that badly. He may be the true alcoholic as you defined it (physical as well as mental dependency). I do feel that some are capable, such as my old landlady who used to be a hard drinking flight attendant and currently has no problem being around people who are drinking, can keep alcohol in the house for guests and seems to have managed to beat her addiction. True the possibility of a relapse is there.

I believe that a lot of alcoholics have addictive personalities as well. I think that many trade the drinking for the meetings which is why there is so much religon and dogma to the recovery programs. Some people need it.

Good thread. If my drinking becomes a problem I know I have friends, family, and roomates who will not hesitate to smack me in the back of the head and tell me to shape up. Until then I do watch my drinking tendencies, and question them because I do keep a fair bit of beer on hand in the house.

As for me? I do not drink liquor much anymore as it gets me drunk. I just find myself drinking it too fast. Wine is a rare drink for me and I really only have a beer or two in the evening, usually with others. Not that I am not opposed to tying one on every now and again and hanging out in the 'alkie thread'

 

[trapanesed]

Sucks but you should find another hobby. Not worth it man


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[Renoun]

I think that it is possible for frequent moderate drinking can be healthy for many many people and problematic for others. I'm no expert but I think I've got some insight to offer on the topic an access to experts if people have detailed questions. I've also contributed to a recent thread on the same topic. I consider myself fortunate that my family and I have never had issues but I've got friends that drew the short straw.

Discussions of alcoholism in American culture are rather tainted by a large portion of the population that find it easier to see excessive drinking as a personal failing and have difficulty accepting it as an illness that can benefit from medical treatment. It's also pretty easy to intermix colloquial language with medical language. Steeping a culture in several generations of treatment dominated by AA and other twelve step programs (that without doubt have helped a great number of people) and it's easy to get pretty confused about the rather complex issues involved.

There are good medical interventions available but not all physicians are comfortable discussing problem drinking or well versed in the treatment options. Your own physician is always a good first step but delving into the ASAM directory is a way to find a specialist. One should be aware that it is common for professionals involved in addiction treatment to be in recovery themselves which may color their analysis of the various treatment options. Don't give up on seeking professional support if your first inquiries aren't satisfactory, there are lots of options.

There's a variety of group support programs in the world beyond traditional AA that most of us are already aware of. Agnostic A.A. and Secular Organizations for Sobriety use approaches acceptable to people who are more comfortable with an agnostic/atheist approach to recovery. Moderation Management emphasizes self awareness, coping skills, and lifestyle changes that may not require lifelong abstinence. Smart Recovery is a newer organization that offers a fusion of group meetings, individualized exercises, and medical therapies that have a more direct path to recent clinical research. Several of these organizations now have some sort of online meeting/group/forum even if they are not active in your geographic community.

As I mentioned in a recent thread here I think the NIH Rethinking Drinking web site is a reasonable first step if one wants external guidance on evaluating their own drinking or needs help locating resources.

Finally many of us who don't necessarily have an issue with alcohol probably aren't at an ideal body size. It is may be easier to drink fewer empty beer calories than making other changes to our diet or adopting a vigorious exercise regime. Perhaps some of us could even find a way to set goals and motivate positive changes by rewarding healthy behaviors with an occasional extra beer.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Well said.

 

[kharper6]

I have taken questions like this from my fairly conservative family.

My drinking habits : I allow myself 5-7 alcohol beverages a week. I'm not talking about going yolo on one day and sobering up for the rest of the week. I drink a beer with dinner almost every day. Sometimes I'm doing so socially and I will drink two beers. These are the days that are followed by a day of non-drinking. I can provide myriad substantiated research to show that this does leaps and bounds for health.

I never have more than 2, I don't like liquor. There is a bit of conflict within me, however. After 1-2 beers I am feeling quite buzzed. I have zero tolerance to alcohol, as I have never really been "drunk" in the sense that most people mean it. I've never lost control, I've never blacked out, gotten sick, forgot what I did, etc. So at the age of twenty-five, I am quite the light weight. My daily beer (usually 6% or so) will get me noticeably buzzed.

This begs the question, if I become intoxicated every day, do I have a problem? That is a subjective question it seems. I can stop, and when it comes time to cut weight (I compete in bodybuilding-type events), I lose alcohol almost entirely. Do I crave it? Yes. Do I think about it daily? Yes. Do I effectively remove it from my life for 8+ weeks? Yes.

I just think that beer is a hobby for me, and if I remove it, like anything else I enjoy, I will miss it.

If I have a real problem with anything, it is pizza. I might actually go insane and hurt someone if I don't get pizza once or twice a week.

 

[Descender]

I was working a catering event with a Russian family, a funeral at an Armenian Church. There was shots of Ouzo, a liquor, that were passed around after dinner. While we were back in the kitchen, the mother of the Russian family started talking about how at Russian funerals, everybody takes a shot of liquor to toast the deceased, even the kids. A waitress that was working with us said "what about people that don't drink?". The response was "no. Everybody drinks." Waitress said "no, what about recovering alcoholics that don't drink anymore?" The old Russian mother laughed and said "silly Americans" as she went about cleaning dishes.

 

[DrunkleJon]

I have taken questions like this from my fairly conservative family.

My drinking habits : I allow myself 5-7 alcohol beverages a week. I'm not talking about going yolo on one day and sobering up for the rest of the week. I drink a beer with dinner almost every day. Sometimes I'm doing so socially and I will drink two beers. These are the days that are followed by a day of non-drinking. I can provide myriad substantiated research to show that this does leaps and bounds for health.

I never have more than 2, I don't like liquor. There is a bit of conflict within me, however. After 1-2 beers I am feeling quite buzzed. I have zero tolerance to alcohol, as I have never really been "drunk" in the sense that most people mean it. I've never lost control, I've never blacked out, gotten sick, forgot what I did, etc. So at the age of twenty-five, I am quite the light weight. My daily beer (usually 6% or so) will get me noticeably buzzed.

This begs the question, if I become intoxicated every day, do I have a problem? That is a subjective question it seems. I can stop, and when it comes time to cut weight (I compete in bodybuilding-type events), I lose alcohol almost entirely. Do I crave it? Yes. Do I think about it daily? Yes. Do I effectively remove it from my life for 8+ weeks? Yes.

I just think that beer is a hobby for me, and if I remove it, like anything else I enjoy, I will miss it.

If I have a real problem with anything, it is pizza. I might actually go insane and hurt someone if I don't get pizza once or twice a week.

I think it depends on how you define alcoholic. Personally I see it as being defined under being a dependance, much like smoking. When your body 'needs' it rather than being a "I could go for a beer right now". If you find yourself counting down the minutes to 5:00 pm or the need to schedule your life around getting a drink, you have arrived at/through the door of alcoholism. A little healthy questioning is a good thing as long as you answer yourself truthfully and are willing/able to make the effort to make a change if you find you do not like the answer to your own question.

 

[Zamial]

I am not an alcoholic, I am a professional.

 

[GarageDweller]

if you can afford to drink too much beer, you are doing better than 90% of the rest of the world.

Before the world became overpopulated with humans:

Men used to live their lives devoid of all the fears of SWMBO and the health industry. they lived extraordinary lives and died younger. now we live longer, boring and over-comfortable lives; controlled by mass media and women that tell you how much you can drink, brew, breathe, and fart. how to dress, cut your hair, smell, and when its appropriate to have more than 1 beer. call me what you want, but I gotta go out on my own terms. even if its lonely and with failing organs.

I'm sure a lot of people that we hold in high regards throughout history were major drunk bastards. the perception of health in today's society is completely backwards. everyone is fat from the crap food that is marketed for the masses along with sedentary jobs and sedentary lifestyles. do you think the health industry goes after large corporations that employ 1000's of people and strap them in a chair in front of a computer screen for the rest of their lives?(sedentary lifestyle) NO! why? because they too are a corporation that employs 1000's of people and strap them in a chair in front of a computer screen, and $$ is a good thing right?. the same companies decrying health are selling you carcinogenic substances to gain a "sugar free" or "diet" label while you pay more, get fat, and die for it.

Brew good beer, share-it, and be good to each and everyone. Fate will handle the rest.


p.s. this is all IMO and just rambling nonsense, not directed at any one member, or meant to be offensive..

 

[cjgenever]

if you can afford to drink too much beer, you are doing better than 90% of the rest of the world.

Before the world became overpopulated with humans:

Men used to live their lives devoid of all the fears of SWMBO and the health industry. they lived extraordinary lives and died younger. now we live longer, boring and over-comfortable lives; controlled by mass media and women that tell you how much you can drink, brew, breathe, and fart. how to dress, cut your hair, smell, and when its appropriate to have more than 1 beer. call me what you want, but I gotta go out on my own terms. even if its lonely and with failing organs.

I'm sure a lot of people that we hold in high regards throughout history were major drunk bastards. the perception of health in today's society is completely backwards. everyone is fat from the crap food that is marketed for the masses along with sedentary jobs and sedentary lifestyles. do you think the health industry goes after large corporations that employ 1000's of people and strap them in a chair in front of a computer screen for the rest of their lives?(sedentary lifestyle) NO! why? because they too are a corporation that employs 1000's of people and strap them in a chair in front of a computer screen, and $$ is a good thing right?. the same companies decrying health are selling you carcinogenic substances to gain a "sugar free" or "diet" label while you pay more, get fat, and die for it.

Brew good beer, share-it, and be good to each and everyone. Fate will handle the rest.


p.s. this is all IMO and just rambling nonsense, not directed at any one member, or meant to be offensive..

I see why you've been banished to the garage! Lol

I get that attitude sometimes. It's usually right before I remember how dank the basement can be when I don't want to be there haha!

Garage dweller is invited to my next Halloween party!

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[smccarter]

Home brewing has nothing to do with alcoholism.

NOTHING

A homebrewer doesn't make an alcoholic.

An alcoholic is an alcoholic no matter where the alcohol comes from. Whether home brewed, or purchased at a bar, resteraunt, or liquor store.

Get over it.

 

[carton132]

Ah, it wouldn't be a thread on homebrewtalk if someone's latent resentment toward women didn't come out sooner or later.

 

[samuryan]

Been brewing for 3 years now, love beer, and am a bartender (around booze all the time). It is my job to provide cocktails and beer and wine to different peoples' tastes. You can't do this well without knowing what everything tastes like. You don't always have to drink what you taste, spit when necessary to remain professional, and take time off, I am a month on the wagon at the moment. I find the time off often affords my tastes a different perspective, it also allows my pipeline to catch up.

 

[smccarter]

Ah, it wouldn't be a thread on homebrewtalk if someone's latent resentment toward women didn't come out sooner or later.

huh?

You might want to quote the post you're targeting when you post a reply like this. We really don't know what you're replying to. We want to support you, but we just don't know how since we don't know what you're talking about.

I, for one, really like women. You're free to be all that you can be. You are my equal in every way.. except for lifting weight, sprinting, hockey, football... etc.... just kidding.

Seriously. Please quote the post you were responding to. We want to.. and will... support you 100 percent, but we need the context.

 

[LymanBrewing]

huh?

You might want to quote the post you're targeting when you post a reply like this. We really don't know what you're replying to. We want to support you, but we just don't know how since we don't know what you're talking about.

I, for one, really like women. You're free to be all that you can be. You are my equal in every way.. except for lifting weight, sprinting, hockey, football... etc.... just kidding.

Seriously. Please quote the post you were responding to. We want to.. and will... support you 100 percent, but we need the context.

Don't worry mate, likely talking about GarageDweller's comments

 

[TopherM]

I read an article recently that stated that the 2-3 drinks a day for men and 1-2 a day for women that American doctors state is healthy is by far the lowest recommendation in the world. The article concluded that the number is more about the nation's religious history and culture, and less about true medical facts.

In pretty much the rest of the world, doctors allow 5-6 drinks a day for men and 4-5 for women.

I know alcoholism has less to do with *how many* and more to do with dependence, but I found that article interesting.

I personally have a beer or two with dinner 2-3 nights a week, then have 6-7 over the course of several hours most Fridays and Saturdays (I'm 6'6", 220 lbs). My girlfriend has 1-2 pretty much every night and 4-5 most Fridays and Saturdays, and often says I drink too much, which is really just silly.

I find most people think the amount they drink is just fine, but anyone who drinks more than they do is an alcoholic. Hypocrisy!

 

[Remmy]

Coming from a family of alcoholics (dad, both grandfathers, many uncles), I was almost afraid to get into home brewing. And I have always felt very odd opening a beer in front of my mother or grandmother when they visit for the holidays. I think now that I brew beer on a pretty consistent basis, it's more accepted in my family and since they have never seen me drunk (I've only gone overboard 3-4 times in my life at the bar with friends), they trust me.

The hardest part for me is wondering how the alcoholics in my family started drinking and how drinking actually developed into a drinking problem. That's always in the back of my mind when I'm having beers. I don't want to end up that way.

 

[mtnagel]

I find most people think the amount they drink is just fine, but anyone who drinks more than they do is an alcoholic. Hypocrisy!

Just like the joke about how fast you are driving.

Anyone driving slower than you is an A-hole and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac

 

[MindenMan]

On one side of my family, there is a long generational list of alcoholism, being raised in that environment, my mother doesn't drink. Well, I have seen her have 5 or 6 drinks in my entire life, usually Christmas or New Year's Eve. I once upon a time had a substance abuse problem that included alcohol. For 7 or 8 years, no drinks, no drugs. About 6 or so years ago, I had a glass of wine for Passover, and had no craving for another glass, or any alcohol in general. A six pack of beer would last anywhere between 5 and 7 days. I missed the alcoholic tendency, thank God. Fast forward to now, I usually one beer a day, sometimes two, or none at all.

 

[Patch62383]

I drink 2-3 beers a day. Weekends maybe 4-5 I hit a wall at 5 and can't do anymore. I've been this way for 10 years and actually I've slowed down. I drink about a beer an hour hardly ever get a buzz I truly love quality beer. I can and should take a few days off a week. I was until I Started brewing 2 months ago. I've made 35 gallons so far and have only consumed may 5 gallons given away 5 to friends. I do believe craft beer can become an issue because it taste so darn good. I think I'll go 2 days a week without drinking starting now because you honestly do feel better drinking less. Quality beer should be enjoyed not abused. Everyone is different and if you don't know your limits and when enough is enough you need to rethink your hobby. I know people who drink 4-6 a day and have for 50 years there healthy and in great shape at 70 and to me there not alcoholics. We all know right from wrong and when we're over doing it. I drink and brew because I love good beer do I go overboard sometimes for me yes. Seems brew days are my bad days drinking 4-5 home made beers making good beer just goes hand in hand. Just enjoy your life and if you feel something is wrong step back and take a break.

 

[RaHarmakis]

To the OP, and those feel the same.

I feel you have taken the first and hardest step. Self Evaluation, and the acknowledgment that an issue is possible. I honestly hope that you have people in your life that will support you properly in the next step!

Like most things in life now, Communication will likely be the most important thing for you. Talk about your habits, feelings, and general thoughts surrounding Alcohol. If your thinking it, it's likely that those that care about you have also thought about it as well. Open up to those that you trust, and then trust their opinions! Don't try to do it alone!

Be Honest with yourself, Be Honest with those you trust most, and in the end do what is best for you and your loved ones.

 

[DrunkleJon]

I must say that I am plesantly surprised and impressed that this thread didnt become the pissing match that it very easily could have. I am thoroughly enjoying it. Well done guys and gals.

 

[rmyurick]

Agreed, Jon, great discussion here. I'm finding, as I get older, that drinking has a negative effect on the quality of sleep. I don't know where the cut off is, but I don't seem to have a problem if I just have one average strength beer (5% or so).

What I've heard/read from medical professionals is that more than 14 in a week or 4 in one day is too much. I think even drinking that much is going to make it hard to maintain a healthy weight, unless you spend a lot of time running or at the gym.

My brother thought he might have an issue, so his doctor told him to give it up for a month if he could and see how he felt. (or if he couldn't, he would refer him to a specialist) I guess he felt pretty good, 'cause he never went back.

 

[dogslapbrewery]

I average 1-2 beers a day when its in the house or on the tap. If I'm watching a movie or show and their having a beer I always get the urge to fill my cup. Think I'm more into the novelty of relaxing with a pint of homebrew.

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[patrickpruitt]

Please excuse the quote: "'Everything is permissible for me'--but not everything is beneficial. 'Everything is permissible for me'--but I will not be mastered by anything." --Paul of Tarsus, 1 Cor 6:12 NIV, emphasis added.

Beast mode! Very true.



God Bless