A Genuine Viewpoint Opposing LODO As Unsubstantiated

[Rodent]

IMO homebrewing is in many ways quite similar to maintaining you home's landscape - some people are obsessed with the minutest of details, spend big $ for the latest hi-tech machinery, and find enjoyment in the process of improving their process ... while others are equally happy to drag a mower across the yard once every month or so, and still others are happy to let it go for years without the slightest care.

the great news with homebrewing is that there are no HOAs to impose their overreaching control upon us, so we can all brew to the level of detail that gives us enjoyment - be that an unboiled Mr Beer kit in the kitchen, the most stringent of detailed nuances derived by scientific methodology, or somewhere in between.

 

[doug293cz]

Things have gotten out of hand in this thread. Shutting it down for a while.

doug293cz
HBT Moderator

 

[doug293cz]

I am reopening this thread. Please remember to keep the discussion civil, and about LoDO process and results. Do not make the discussion about people involved or not involved in LoDO. If the discussion degrades into personal arguments again, this thread will be shut down permanently.

doug203cz
HBT Moderator

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

Thanks Doug! Why am I so wrapped up in this LODO thing. Is it because I need to explore the caverns of this segue or are the depths of hotside aeration a rabbit hole into consternation.

I think that our forefathers made delicious beer without SS Brewtech and Brewtan B. I’m not fighting the future because true tech makes things more simple. Make this simple or forever lose my attention.

 

[mongoose33]

Thanks Doug! Why am I so wrapped up in this LODO thing. Is it because I need to explore the caverns of this segue or are the depths of hotside aeration a rabbit hole into consternation.

I think that our forefathers made delicious beer without SS Brewtech and Brewtan B. I’m not fighting the future because true tech makes things more simple. Make this simple or forever lose my attention.

Not to be too argumentative, but our forefathers made beer. Delicious? As good as today? Or was it just the best that they could do, and others called it "delicious" because it was better than the rest of the swill available at the time?

No one knows.

Heck, there are people today who prefer Lite and Light beers. Prefer them!

 

[brewbama]

We frequently mention Bit because it can be had frequently in the states very fresh.

I’ve seen you throw this example around on multiple forums. It’s a bit of misdirection in my opinion.

We also love Weihenstpehaner, Ayinger, Paulaner, Augustiner, Andechs, etc. certainly you don’t think those beers are bad as well?

Now we’re talkin. Ayinger Dunkel is my ‘white whale’ bier.

Excellent analogy below. I live in the foothills of the Appalachians — in “the country” — for the specific reason of not having an HOA. Of course, that means the guy down the road can live in a tarpaper shack and the one a bit further lives in a multi-million dollar horse farm. If that’s what their resources and means can produce and they’re happy with that, then good on them. They’re both great people.

IMO homebrewing is in many ways quite similar to maintaining you home's landscape - some people are obsessed with the minutest of details, spend big $ for the latest hi-tech machinery, and find enjoyment in the process of improving their process ... while others are equally happy to drag a mower across the yard once every month or so, and still others are happy to let it go for years without the slightest care.

the great news with homebrewing is that there are no HOAs to impose their overreaching control upon us, so we can all brew to the level of detail that gives us enjoyment - be that an unboiled Mr Beer kit in the kitchen, the most stringent of detailed nuances derived by scientific methodology, or somewhere in between.

 

[Big Monk]

Now we’re talkin. Ayinger Dunkel is my ‘white whale’ bier.

Excellent analogy:

I personally like Bit. When I get it fresh it’s a refreshing, higher hopped, and clean Pilsner beer. Not for everyone but since it’s available and usually very fresh, it’s a “Landmark” so to speak when trying to get the point across.

In a perfect world my fridge would always have Trappist beers, fresh Weihenstephan, and fresh Ayinger.

As far as analogies on lawn care, ask The Beerery for pictures of his. You’ll see the attention to detail and quality is universal.

 

[Lefou]

In the future, I'm not going to post any pictures of my non-LODO brews from the back yard.
Someone might spot some edible, non-Rheinheitsgebot dandelions or lamb's quarters ... and then my reputation will be ruined.

Ruined, I tell you.
Now about the lamb's quarters ... they're less filling and taste great, but some people might think they taste terrible and cause bloating. That's OK, 'cuz they don't have to eat 'em if they don't want to.

 

[Bilsch]

I’m not fighting the future because true tech makes things more simple. Make this simple or forever lose my attention.

I'm constantly being surprised by the ingenuity of low oxygen brewers to figure out inexpensive workarounds to problems normally requiring expensive equipment upgrades. If you really wanted to dive in and give lowox a try, any number of people here, and even more so on the lowoxygenbrewing site, would be more than happy to help you figure out the easiest and least expensive path to get there. For a lot of people just reconfiguring the system they already had was sufficient.

Help always makes things simpler and most lowox people are always willing to assist.

 

[brewbama]

As far as analogies on lawn care, ask The Beerery for pictures of his. You’ll see the attention to detail and quality is universal.

I can only imagine. I’ve seen his pizza oven and I’m jealous! LOL

 

[Big Monk]

I can only imagine. I’ve seen his pizza oven and I’m jealous! LOL

You should see his BBQ setup. He's a renaissance man. Always in 100% Beast Mode.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

Not to be too argumentative, but our forefathers made beer. Delicious? As good as today? Or was it just the best that they could do, and others called it "delicious" because it was better than the rest of the swill available at the time?

No one knows.

No offense taken. It’s like in Back to the Future III when his great grandad gave him a glass of water and it was filled with floaties.

While it’s true that no one knows, pre-modern people still were people just like us in every detail except their environment. They presumably would have at least similar standards as us for what a dumper was. Consider as well that there were people of means that not only believed themselves as being better than others but culturally were validated in that belief. Those people at least had the resources and motivation to make excellent beer. So I’m sure there was plenty of swill around, but I would bet dollars to donuts that when we are able to prove to our long distant children that we are aware that we are in their computer simulation and the give us free reign to explore the past, that we will find some very good not LODO beer indeed.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I am not singling anyone out, but collectively I have gotten the feeling that those promoting LODO, look down on those who don't feel that you need to progress to LODO.

Same here.

I'm not singling anyone out who is in favor of LOB/LODO. The attitude does have a dogmatic-like rift to it from my observation. When it comes to LOB its all stemmed out of quality. It's hard to NOT be judgemental about one's opinion with regard to taste. Ours all differ to some extent.

We all know the neophyte BMC drinker's attitude about craft beer drinkers. Then the typical craft brewer's attitude about LOB. It's like class warfare or should a say glass warfare. It need NOT be that way. It's what you like to drink or how obsessed you want to be with your hobby and beer drinking.

During this polar vortex I stocked up on beer prior to it hitting. I only had cider on tap its fuggin tart, like Granny Smith. I found out Michelob is LOB and I haven't drank it in ages. So that's what I bought Amberbock and Helles and drank it for two days. I really thought about the taste as started drinking them. I found this activity enjoyable cooped up by myself for a few days.

I brewed my first LODO Beer last month. I read up about it over Xmas. The thing I liked about it was the realization I had about safety with regards to Underletting. You can underlet and not be LODO. I really thought how stupid it was to pour strike and sparge water from a kettle with anywhere from 3-6 gallons in the thing. A simple ball valve would have worked or a sauce pan. Every vessel of mine now has a 1/2" SS ball valve.

I liked adding a mash cap. It helps me with heat retention as my large 12 gal mash tun is too big on small grists and 5 gal mash tun can be too small. Still can be done without LODO to some benefit with mashing. I use a 1000 polypropylene balls (hollow 20mm) from the HLT, MLT, BK.

I always measure out sparge and strike water the night before or the morning of brewday so hitting it with tiny amount of sugar and yeast and letting it set for two hours is no problem. Just an extra step.

I don't own a pump yet for recirculation. It would even help without doing LOB. I'm doing gravity recirculation until can buy a pump. I brew on a budget. That's my next purchase.

I also like the less vigous boil. I use that floating ball blanket as I do with my mash cap and HLT. I get to temp fast and it requires 70% less heat to infuse into the boil. I only boil off 1/8-1/4 of a gallon of wort in an hour.

I'm doing closed transfer with gravity. It's very simple. My fermenter purges my keg and blows co2 out of the gas inlet to extra growler. At kegging I swap lines and fill via gravity. I move the keg to floor level as my fermenter remains on my benchtop. I close the ball valve as soon as it sputters. I'm waiting for a signs of it. Typically by feel heavy vs light keg and fermenter.

The main thing I don't like it the metabisulfate, ascorbic acid and gallotanin (trifecta) addition to the mash and sparge water. Mostly its the metabisulfate. It's NOT required if I do the right things. But how do I know???

The two things that are worth mentioning is the validation with actual measurement and with devices that have the right resolution. Those are the dissolved oxygen meter and the sulfite papers. Many who profess to be LOB don't own meters since they are expensive. $160-$450 for the DO Meter. The sulfite papers are cheaper but $25 for a vile of them. Many who own them don't use them anymore. They claim to have the process dialed in so it's unnecessary.

My thoughts if you aren't measuring for dissolved oxygen or sulfites in your beer you REALLY don't know if you have low oxygen: water, wort, or beer. Also, you don't know if you're adding too much sulfite or not enough to meet the goal of LOB.

Asking "What meter do you have and how often do you use it while brewing", it is a very pointed question to a LODO brewer. It should be asked and answered.

Edit: I don't own a DO Meter or have sulfite papers. I brew on a budget, so I made a guess to trifecta addition needed. It's hard justifying the expense of meter for something you might use a few times.

 

[mongoose33]

Same here.

I'm not singling anyone out who is in favor of LOB/LODO. The attitude does have a dogmatic-like rift to it from my observation. When it comes to LOB its all stemmed out of quality. It's hard to NOT be judgemental about one's opinion with regard to taste. Ours all differ to some extent.

We all know the neophyte BMC drinker's attitude about craft beer drinkers. Then the typical craft brewer's attitude about LOB. It's like class warfare or should a say glass warfare. It need NOT be that way. It's what you like to drink or how obsessed you want to be with your hobby and beer drinking.

During this polar vortex I stocked up on beer prior to it hitting. I only had cider on tap its fuggin tart, like Granny Smith. I found out Michelob is LOB and I haven't drank it in ages. So that's what I bought Amberbock and Helles and drank it for two days. I really thought about the taste as started drinking them. I found this activity enjoyable cooped up by myself for a few days.

I brewed my first LODO Beer last month. I read up about it over Xmas. The thing I liked about it was the realization I had about safety with regards to Underletting. You can underlet and not be LODO. I really thought how stupid it was to pour strike and sparge water from a kettle with anywhere from 3-6 gallons in the thing. A simple ball valve would have worked or a sauce pan. Every vessel of mine now has a 1/2" SS ball valve.

I liked adding a mash cap. It helps me with heat retention as my large 12 gal mash tun is too big on small grists and 5 gal mash tun can be too small. Still can be done without LODO to some benefit with mashing. I use a 1000 polypropylene balls (hollow 20mm) from the HLT, MLT, BK.

I always measure out sparge and strike water the night before or the morning of brewday so hitting it with tiny amount of sugar and yeast and letting it set for two hours is no problem. Just an extra step.

I don't own a pump yet for recirculation. It would even help without doing LOB. I'm doing gravity recirculation until can buy a pump. I brew on a budget. That's my next purchase.

I also like the less vigous boil. I use that floating ball blanket as I do with my mash cap and HLT. I get to temp fast and it requires 70% less heat to infuse into the boil. I only boil off 1/8-1/4 of a gallon of wort in an hour.

I'm doing closed transfer with gravity. It's very simple. My fermenter purges my keg and blows co2 out of the gas inlet to extra growler. At kegging I swap lines and fill via gravity. I move the keg to floor level as my fermenter remains on my benchtop. I close the ball valve as soon as it sputters. I'm waiting for a signs of it. Typically by feel heavy vs light keg and fermenter.

The main thing I don't like it the metabisulfate, ascorbic acid and gallotanin addition to the mash and sparge water. Mostly is the metabisulfate. It's NOT required if I do the right things. But how do I know???

The two things that worth mentioning is the validation with actual measurement and with devices that have the right resolution. Those are the dissolved oxygen meter and the sulfite papers. Many who profess to be LOB don't own meters since they are expensive. $160-$450 for the DO Meter. The sulfite papers are cheaper but $25 for a vile of them. Many who own them don't use them anymore. They claim to have the process dialed in so it's unnecessary.

My thoughts if you aren't measuring for dissolved oxygen or sulfites in your beer you REALLY don't know if you have low oxygen: water, wort, or beer. Also, you don't know if you're adding too much sulfite or not enough to meet the goal of LOB.

Asking "What meter do you have and how often do you use it while brewing", it is a very pointed question to a LODO brewer. It should be asked and answered.

The one thing I'd note is if you taste it you can tell. A DO meter is on my list, mostly because I'm a scientist and I've just got to measure things. Plus, I think it'll help me dial in the process so that if there are leaks in the process, I can identify and plug them.

 

[Schlenkerla]

The one thing I'd note is if you taste it you can tell. A DO meter is on my list, mostly because I'm a scientist and I've just got to measure things. Plus, I think it'll help me dial in the process so that if there are leaks in the process, I can identify and plug them.

Me too. I want that and I want to measure it to know the impact.

My first beer tastes different than anything I have ever made. Its a Kolsch, and you can taste the malt. It's is more prominent than anything I made before. The 2oz Mt Hood that I first wort hopped is very noticeable too. Smells like a 1970s American Lager.

The fast ferment test is valuable. It's another thing a non LODO brewer should do. Forces the thought of gravity measurements and refractometer calibration. For years I was too lazy to break out the hydrometer.

Anybody that wants to load the pipeline fast, Spunding is the way to do it quickly. Another thing that can be for a non LODO brewer.

 

[Schlenkerla]

The one thing I'd note is if you taste it you can tell. A DO meter is on my list, mostly because I'm a scientist and I've just got to measure things. Plus, I think it'll help me dial in the process so that if there are leaks in the process, I can identify and plug them.

Yeah that is true. About taste....

My friend who owns a brew pub made this Belgian Pale Ale for the first time. It's tasted a lot like Fat Tire. FT is my favorite amber. His beer, unfortunately, three or four weeks later didn't taste the same. It wasn't cardboard like, but I could NOT taste the caramel 60L and biscuit flavors now. It was rather disappointing. I try to ask him what's new so I'm not disappointed or insulting him in anyway. I'd still drink his Belgian Pale Ale its good, but I'd rather drink something really fresh.

 

[Schlenkerla]

This already exists, read chapter 3 of Technology Brewing and Malting by Kunze.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Aren't the two top LOB texts a couple hundred dollars and written from professional prospective? (Narziss Or Kunze) Not that there's anything wrong with that, but anybody citing that as a source its not likely some hobbyist will pick it up on a whim to read about something they have pessimism about in the first place.

I'm wondering when will a hobbyist write their own book on it, making it cliff notes version of the those two known sources.

 

[Schlenkerla]

That's a really good question. I think it is, to some extent, style dependent, but I haven't done enough of it to provide you with clear suggestions as to how that might be.

I've found LODO really shines in a Pilsner recipe I've brewed; there's a punch of flavor unlike anything I've ever experienced in a Pils. I've had others rave about it. @Morrey has had it; perhaps he can weigh in.

The effects have been less apparent in a dark lager--almost a Schwarzbier--that I do. This much was clear: the dark malts popped in a way they hadn't in non-LODO batches.

I did a LODO Amber at the beginning of December that, 3 weeks later, was maybe the best beer I've ever done. Served it on Christmas eve with relatives over; the inveterate wine drinkers set aside their wine glasses for this beer once they had a sip, and they had refills. I've never seen the wine drinkers switch to beer, and that Amber did it.

But I've had others that, while excellent IMO, didn't rise to mythical status. Some of that I can attribute to changes in process, which I'm still nailing down. Things like using a hop spider basket versus just tossing them in, or a Rye recipe using my new mill which has too wide a gap so a lot of the rye malt wasn't well crushed. I keep learning....

**************

When I started this odyssey, I wanted to try some LODO beer to see if it was worth the effort and time. Alas, there is none locally of which I'm aware. So the only way to try it was to brew some myself.

That's hard at one level because one is not always sure that the process is correct. But it was the only way.

When I get my electric brewing setup going and I'm comfortable with it, I will do two "identical" batches, one using LODO and my stainless conical, and one the "regular" way without regard to LODO, and a plastic fermenter in a ferm chamber.

Then it might be worth inviting people in the area to try both so they can see what they think. Even JayJay who's only about 3 hours away.

Invite @Jayjay1976 twice. Right after and a month later.

I think there is some of that out there. Sort of the cult thing.

There are good and legitimate reasons not to fool with it. It takes longer, in my experience, and many who brew are pressed for time now.

It's more...fiddly. There's a learning curve there that reminds me a bit of when I started brewing. There are a lot of moving parts. I've gotten better at it, but it is a far cry from BIAB, which I personally found to be a very simple, easy, relatively fast process. I've been trying to streamline the LODO process because I don't like the extra time it requires. I think that'll happen now as I'm moving to electric brewing.

***********

I've had the privilege of sampling some of @Morrey 's beer. It's excellent, and meets my major criterion which is "would I have another?" He's not doing LODO on the hot side, but his beer, that I've tasted, has been great.

So the idea, promulgated by whomever is saying it, that if your beer isn't LODO it can't be very good...well, that's not so, at least in my experience.

We'll see if LODO produces beer that is noticeably better in my case, and if the difference, assuming it is better, is worth the hassle.

I really think time is an aspect to consider. Beers served at the right time might show to both be great, whereas a good time later might be the deciding factor. Rate of change over Time = dT.

A good excuse to get another. Don't want it to go bad.

 

[mongoose33]

Right after and a month later. I really think time is an aspect to consider. Beers served at the right time might show to both be great, whereas a good time later might be the deciding factor. Rate of change over Time = dT.

A good excuse to get another. Don't want it to go bad.

I've long thought the way to beat staling of beer is to just drink it fast!

In my experience, beers brewed lodo do seem to last longer than I'd expect; I have a california common I'm still working on that was brewed on 9/15/18; that's 5+ months at this point, but not much left. I like that beer but I have five on tap and there are others I just tend to prefer a bit more.

I brewed a hazy IPA last weekend, LODO. I'm interested to see how long that will last; I'll transfer from my conical to a purged keg using purged lines. Theoretically it should hold freshness for several months. Theoretically.

 

[Paulaner]

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Aren't the two top LOB texts a couple hundred dollars and written from professional prospective? (Narziss Or Kunze) Not that there's anything wrong with that, but anybody citing that as a source its not likely some hobbyist will pick it up on a whim to read about something they have pessimism about in the first place.

I'm wondering when will a hobbyist write their own book on it, making it cliff notes version of the those two known sources.

Yup it was around that price, but I saved a boat load on shipping since I was living in Germany at the time. lol. I'm just trying to be as educated as possible and, I got hopes for when I finally retire from my day job. No need for cliff notes when you have it straight from the horses mouth.

 

[Bilsch]

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Aren't the two top LOB texts a couple hundred dollars and written from professional prospective? (Narziss Or Kunze) Not that there's anything wrong with that, but anybody citing that as a source its not likely some hobbyist will pick it up on a whim to read about something they have pessimism about in the first place.

I'm wondering when will a hobbyist write their own book on it, making it cliff notes version of the those two known sources.

That's a good point and they probably won't because of the sticker shock. On the other hand, I have $400 in old home brewing books on my shelf which are full of a lot of opinions from some guys that made some beer (with the exception of George Fix).. as compared to a $200 Kunze which is full of actual brewing science taught at universities. The other books I read once and put back on the dusty shelf where they still sit. Technology Brewing and Malting, on the other hand, I'm going back to all the time.

 

[kh54s10]

I've long thought the way to beat staling of beer is to just drink it fast!

In my experience, beers brewed lodo do seem to last longer than I'd expect; I have a california common I'm still working on that was brewed on 9/15/18; that's 5+ months at this point, but not much left. I like that beer but I have five on tap and there are others I just tend to prefer a bit more.

I brewed a hazy IPA last weekend, LODO. I'm interested to see how long that will last; I'll transfer from my conical to a purged keg using purged lines. Theoretically it should hold freshness for several months. Theoretically.

When I was brewing a lot more often than I do now, I would often have beers last for somewhere around 5 months or more and a couple of big beers lasted couple of years. Only on those big beers did I notice and degradation. And that was expected after a couple of years... All my beers were brewed in a PET carboy or bucket fermenter, siphoned to a keg or bottling bucket that was not purged.

Those with more discerning palates may require all the extra work. For me, I have so many other things to work on before I will look at LODO.

 

[Big Monk]

When I was brewing a lot more often than I do now, I would often have beers last for somewhere around 5 months or more and a couple of big beers lasted couple of years. Only on those big beers did I notice and degradation. And that was expected after a couple of years... All my beers were brewed in a PET carboy or bucket fermenter, siphoned to a keg or bottling bucket that was not purged.

Those with more discerning palates may require all the extra work. For me, I have so many other things to work on before I will look at LODO.

Can we stop calling it LODO? I don’t know who came up with that but for some reason it annoys the bejeezus out of me.

It’s not even a good acronym.

How about LOB (low oxygen brewing).

My name is Derek Scott and in support this message and the rights of all brewers to do what they want. Except call is LODO.

 

[mongoose33]

Can we stop calling it LODO? I don’t know who came up with that but for some reason it annoys the bejeezus out of me.

It’s not even a good acronym.

How about LOB (low oxygen brewing).

My name is Derek Scott and in support this message and the rights of all brewers to do what they want. Except call is LODO.

LOw Dissolved Oxygen brewing. What's not to like with LODO?

I think you don't like it because it's too close to...LOCO!

 

[LittleRiver]

... LODO?...it annoys the bejeezus out of me.... How about LOB. ...

If you're going to go full OCD about the acronym, take your idea and arrange it alphabetically: BLO

It is descriptive.

 

[Big Monk]

If you're going to go full OCD about the acronym, take your idea and arrange it alphabetically: BLO

It is descriptive.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Can we stop calling it LODO? I don’t know who came up with that but for some reason it annoys the bejeezus out of me.

It’s not even a good acronym.

How about LOB (low oxygen brewing).

My name is Derek Scott and in support this message and the rights of all brewers to do what they want. Except call is LODO.

It doesn't bother me...I consider it a general term under Low Oxygen Brewing lingo.

It's actually a condition of whatever is in your HLT, MLT, BK, your wort, or your finished beer.

LOB
- LODO - Low Dissolved Oxygen
- YOS - Yeast Oxygen Scrubbing
- Trifecta - Sodium Metabisulfate, Ascorbic Acid, Brewtan-B
- KMB - Potassium Metabisulfate
- SMB - Sodium Metabisulfate

Beer
- Ale
- Lager
- Wild

 

[Schlenkerla]

Can we stop calling it LODO? I don’t know who came up with that but for some reason it annoys the bejeezus out of me.

It’s not even a good acronym.

How about LOB (low oxygen brewing).

My name is Derek Scott and in support this message and the rights of all brewers to do what they want. Except call is LODO.

It's possible some brewer from LoDo Colorado coined the name. [emoji12]

Take it up with him.

 

[ba-brewer]

Might want to rethink the LOB, many think LODO is a Lot Of Bull

 

[Big Monk]

Might want to rethink the LOB, many think LODO is a Lot Of Bull

Good thing about this country is everyone is free to think what they want to!

Doesn’t change my generally low opinion of what other people think but in the words of Chuck Berry:

“It’s a free country. Live how you wanna live baby.”

(I am Derek Scott and I support this message )

 

[Bilsch]

Might want to rethink the LOB, many think LODO is a Lot Of Bull

Eh.. those 'many' you describe are a herd I'd rather not follow, too much crap to step in.

 

[ba-brewer]

Good thing about this country is everyone is free to think what they want to!

Doesn’t change my generally low opinion of what other people think but in the words of Chuck Berry:

“It’s a free country. Live how you wanna live baby.”

(I am Derek Scott and I support this message )

Eh.. those 'many' you describe are a herd I'd rather not follow, too much crap to step in.

Just want to clarify I do not follow/belong to either herd and still hold an open mind to the LODO/LOB process. I just seen an opportunity for a dumb joke and took it.

Since this thread started it pushed me to finally try the LODO/LOB process. First time was an impromptu batch as I forgot to set my ezboil to mash mode and overheated my mash water so seized the opportunity. The other two were deliberate. The two ale batches had sulfur issues and the lager had a elevated sulfur level during fermenting but the finish product was clean. The ales I would say were sub par to my normal process due to sulfur issues and the lager was to par. I will say all three were done without the benefit of sulfite test strips so I really put too much weight to the end results. I do have test strips now and the next attempt I will make use of them to monitor the process. I am still debating whether to spring for a DO meter before the next batch, but I will give it another try or two some day.

I have always conditioned my grain and milled immediately before mash in as well as only ever fermented clean trub free wort. Over the last couple year I have incorporated a mash cap and reduced boil intensity and few other LODO/LOB recommendations into my normal process.

 

[brewbama]

I'm wondering when will a hobbyist write their own book on it, making it cliff notes version of the those two known sources.

I’ve asked a leading expert.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I’ve asked a leading expert.

Who be that?

 

[brewbama]

Good thing about this country is everyone is free to think what they want to!

+1

 

[mongoose33]

Geez, why are people so worked up over this?

Do LODO, don't do LODO; nobody is a better person for choosing one or the other.

If people want to invest in a super setup, that's their choice. Sometimes people just want to push the boundaries of a hobby, sometimes just to see if something can be done, and if so, how. More power to them.

Others want simplicity and frugality. More power to them, too.

There is something to LODO; whether it's worth the money and effort is a conclusion each individual has to reach on their own. But choosing to do it, or not do it, or partially do it, does not provide grounds for denigrating others' choices.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Nobody said you need a professional brewery in your basement to make great beer. This is a very popular straw man on this forum. There are plenty of people single infusing in coolers and doing LOB.

You are missing the forest for the trees here.

Like me. [emoji1]

My set up will allow for infusions, step mashing, and thin decoctions if I want to do that. Right now it's all with gravity. Back and forth underletting from cooler to kettle.

 

[ba-brewer]

"Be just what you is, not what you is not. Folks what do this has the happiest lot." Mr Wizard the Lizard

 

[bdogg171]

Geez, why are people so worked up over this?

Do LODO, don't do LODO; nobody is a better person for choosing one or the other.

If people want to invest in a super setup, that's their choice. Sometimes people just want to push the boundaries of a hobby, sometimes just to see if something can be done, and if so, how. More power to them.

Others want simplicity and frugality. More power to them, too.

There is something to LODO; whether it's worth the money and effort is a conclusion each individual has to reach on their own. But choosing to do it, or not do it, or partially do it, does not provide grounds for denigrating others' choices.

Perfect!!

 

[doug293cz]

Thread is closed again for a cooling down period. Someone made a denigrating comment about another member, which is never allowed. That spawned some responses and side discussions which were also deleted.

Remember to keep the discussion about LoDO/LOB, and not the personalities involved. I will reopen this thread after a while, but if it gets side tracked into sniping again, it will be closed forever.

doug293cz
HBT Moderator