A Few Questions on an Oatmeal Chocolate Stout

[OKCAg2002]

Hi gang,

I did a few searches in the forums, and I didn't find some of the specific answers I was looking for. I thought I'd throw this out there and see what the brewing community thought.

I'm looking at doing an all-grain oatmeal chocolate stout. I've never brewed with chocolate before, and I've found some various opinions on it. Some say to go with cocoa powder in the boil, cocoa nibs in the secondary, or even a cocoa liquor at bottling. Some say to go with all three.

Another question I have is fermentation times. I know we go by hydrometer readings and not time, but what is a good rule of thumb on a stout? I usually just do my ales in primary for 2 weeks and then bottle. I have good success with that system. Should I secondary a stout? For how long?

Here's a recipe that I found on Beersmith that looks pretty good. Any advice here? This recipe has a ton of lactose in it, so I might cut it down. I'm looking at this beer as a good dessert beer, so I'm good with it being sweet. Maybe just not that sweet!

How many ounces of chocolate liquor should I add?

Thanks, guys!

Oat Monster Milk Chocolate Stout
All Grain Recipe

Batch Size: 5.50 gal Style: Oatmeal Stout ()
Boil Size: 8.76 gal Style Guide: BJCP 2008
Color: 45.9 SRM Equipment: Stainless Kegs (10 Gal/37.8 L) - All Grain
Bitterness: 19.8 IBUs Boil Time: 60 min
Est OG: 1.095 (22.4° P)
Mash Profile: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Est FG: 1.022 SG (5.6° P) Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
ABV: 9.6% Taste Rating: 30.0

Ingredients
9 lbs 9.6 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)
2 lbs 8.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)
1 lbs 8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)
1 lbs Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM)
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM)
1 lbs Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM)
12.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
1 lbs 8.0 oz Milk Sugar (Lactose) (0.0 SRM)
0.5 oz Magnum [14.0%] - Boil 60 min
0.7 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.0%] - Boil 10 min
1 pkgs Irish Ale Yeast (White Labs #WLP004)
1.00 Crème de Cacao (Secondary 7 days)

 

[tootal]

I didn't do the math but I'll just say that on beers other than stouts the rule of thumb is no more that 30 % specialty malts. On stouts it's 40 %. I tried to make an Imperial oatmeal cream stout. I had 47% specialty malts and it tasted like crap!! A friend distilled it though and that was pretty darn good!

If you want to help "pop" the chocolate we found that combining chocolate malt with 120L crystal will give you good chocolate flavor. Maybe take the 80L out and add 120? We told a local brewmaster what we figured out and he said, "That's what we do!"

 

[dcp27]

a stout doesnt take any longer to ferment than any other ale, your usual system should work fine

recipe looks fine to me, but id ditch the carapils & cut the lactose down to 1lb. i've never used chocolate liquor so cant help there, ive had good success with cocoa powder (6-8oz end of boil).

 

[OKCAg2002]

If I use the cocoa powder, is that the same thing as Hershey's that is used for baking?


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[dcp27]

i haven't used hershey's so can't say for sure, but as long as its just cocoa, so unsweetened & w.o. other junk in it, that should be fine.

 

[OKCAg2002]

Is there any difference in using cocoa, cocoa nibs, and liqueur?


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[rocketsan]

Is there any difference in using cocoa, cocoa nibs, and liqueur?


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All will give different cocoa flavourings...


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[8dannyB2]

If I use the cocoa powder, is that the same thing as Hershey's that is used for baking?
Yes. I've used it in two batches it came out great. As stated before as long as its "all natural and unsweetened". I also used 8oz of cocoa nibs in secondary for a couple weeks to help bump up the chocolate flavor. I just let them sit in enough bourbon to cover them for a day or two to help sanitize them and dumped the whole thing in.

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[OKCAg2002]

Thanks guys. I typically do 3 gallon batches so I would scale down the recipe above. If I use the liqueur how much would you suggest I use? And adding it to the bottling bucket with corn sugar won't cause bottle bombs, will it?


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[MindenMan]

From my personal experience, Cocoa powder adds a definite chocolate flavor (8 oz/5 g), and it does have that cocoa powder/bitter flavor. Cocoa nibs when roasted, add a good quality chocolate bar flavor (6oz/5g). Are you talking about a Creme De Cocoa liqueur, like a schnapps, but chocolate? I recently made a Triple Chocolate Stout, using chocolate malt, cocoa powder, a Torani Sugar Free Chocolate Syrup. Everyone that tries it really likes it, but to my tastes I added too much vanilla. If you don't add vanilla, it won't taste like chocolate... Before I brew another batch, I will get a bottle of Star Kay White Chocolate extract for the next batch. Everything I have read says positive things about their extract. I would be forewarned that for the chocolate stout, two months in the bottle, at least before drinking. JMHO

EDIT: I made my TC Stout back in October, and am chilling one right now to see where the flavor currently is.

 

[OKCAg2002]

MindenMan - thanks for the advice. I'm not sure on the liquer honestly. I am just going on what I've read online. I'm guessing the liquor store has something that would work. For my first go around, it sounds like a safe bet to use cocoa powder in the boil. Should I add some vanilla extract before I pitch the yeast, too?

I've never brewed up a stout before. So I'm guessing a "standard" ale fermentation of 2 weeks in primary and then let them bottle condition for an extended length of time? Sounds like as much as 2 months?




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[8dannyB2]

Instead of the vanilla extract why not use actual beans. A buddy of mine has used the extract before and the flavor was kinda weird. Almost "alchoholy". I like to put a couple vanilla beans in with the cocoa nibs. They seem to work well together. As far as the age on the brew and your bottling timeline, that's one of the beauties of homebrewing, you can bottle after your secondary and crack them as you want. Try one in a few weeks, and then a couple weeks after that until you feel it's where you want it. Personally I feel like age does nothing but good for a stout. I currently have one that I just brewed last weekend that I don't plan to keg/bottle until November. But it's all personal preference.


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[MindenMan]

I am sure the vanilla beans add a richer vanilla flavor than the pure extract, which I used. I used 2 tbls of pure vanilla in secondary and had no off flavors. Since 8 oz/5g of cocoa powder does add a certain bitterness to the wort up front, during secondary the gritty/bitterness of the cocoa powder fades into a nice round flavor. As far as a "real" chocolate flavor goes, I would use nibs that have been roasted and crushed, into a neutral spirit like vodka for a week or so. In my first batch, used 4 tbls of vanilla, and I thought that was too much for my taste. This last batch I used Torani Sugar Free Chocolate Syrup in the secondary, I added two cups/5 g, and there was a nice chocolate flavor before bottling, and no extra sugar to worry about in the secondary. It didn't occur to me soon enough that one of the natural flavors the Torani has was vanilla. The Torani syrup added a nice full mouth feel.
Every brewer has had a different experience, brewing the same style as someone else had, and even doing the same recipe the results will be slightly different from brewer. My ideal of making pricey beers, is to make a 1/2 batch to start with.
Big IPA's, fruit beers and other flavored beers/ales get really expensive ( for me at least) so first time out I will use a small batch. My wife's CDA/BIPA was kinda pricey with a IBU of 96 before dry hopping.

 

[OKCAg2002]

I typically do 3 gallon batches anyways so my usual investment in ingredients is somewhere around $25 total. For bigger beers I assume I'll spend around $35-$40 depending on additives.

Thanks guys. Good advice here. I'll probably try it one way first and then tweak it.


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[rocketsan]

From my personal experience, Cocoa powder adds a definite chocolate flavor (8 oz/5 g), and it does have that cocoa powder/bitter flavor. Cocoa nibs when roasted, add a good quality chocolate bar flavor (6oz/5g). Are you talking about a Creme De Cocoa liqueur, like a schnapps, but chocolate? I recently made a Triple Chocolate Stout, using chocolate malt, cocoa powder, a Torani Sugar Free Chocolate Syrup. Everyone that tries it really likes it, but to my tastes I added too much vanilla. If you don't add vanilla, it won't taste like chocolate... Before I brew another batch, I will get a bottle of Star Kay White Chocolate extract for the next batch. Everything I have read says positive things about their extract. I would be forewarned that for the chocolate stout, two months in the bottle, at least before drinking. JMHO

EDIT: I made my TC Stout back in October, and am chilling one right now to see where the flavor currently is.

So you added Toriani sugar free chocolate syrup? Do u bottle carb? Was going to use it but was worried about the preservatives in it affecting the ability to carbonate with priming sugar...


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[MindenMan]

I just opened a Triple Chocolate Stout, the one mentioned above, Bottled 11/27/2013 and I don't have any complaints. It's not over vanilla'd anymore, the carbonation seems a little higher than I remember.. not fizzy, but does produce a beautiful head. The chocolate flavor is right there, and hangs in the finish very subtle. It does have a nice mouth feel. I do wonder if anything in the Torani syrup was fermentable.

 

[rocketsan]

I was just told to stay away from Toriani because of the preservatives


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