a couple of question about 2 stage brewing

[Psilophile]

Hey guys. This is one of my first attempts at brewing a dark beer, and the recipe I used suggested 2 stage fermentation. I moved it over to the secondary fermenter once the bubbling had settled down a bit and activity has seemed to stop. Here's the thing: the adjust gravity reading is still 1.034. Is this normal? Should I wait longer, or just go ahead and bottle it? The adjusted O.G. was 1.090, just so you know. It seems like that gravity is a bit too high to condition and bottle...

Just wanted to check with you guys before I did anything stupid. Also, if I need to let it sit longer should I rack it off of the lees? There's quite a large layer of it at the bottom of the jug, and I wasn't sure if it was cool to let it sit for too long.

 

[Dan]

Don't know where to start.

You will get better answers if you post the recipe and fermentation temps.

First, airlock activity is not an accurate method to determine whether or not a beer has finished fermenting. Only a specific gravity reading will tell you that.

There is not really two stages to fermentation, not like the kit instructions lead you to believe. For your first few batches try just fermenting in your primary fermenter for a 2-3 weeks at the correct temperature. After a few weeks take a SG reading and if it's the same a few days later and corresponds with the recipes predicted Final Graivty you are good to bottle.

SG readings on wort that have been topped off with water are not usually correct because the water and wort don't mix right away. If you were using a kit and followed the water volume instructions and ended with what they said it would end with. Just use there predicted OG as a reference. Assuming you were using an extract kit of some sort.

Having said that, some big beers like a 1.090 do produce so much alcohol that the yeast become to stressed to be able to metabolize the sugar. Some big beers have extra yeast added after the present yeast are spent. Not sure if that is your problem

1.034 is a very high FG.

Post your recipe and process for more accurate answers to your question.

 

[Natethebrewer]

How long did you have it in the primary? and how long has it been in the secondary?
Bigger beers may take longer to finish, and temperature has an impact on both the yeast and the hydrometer reading.
For most of my beers 1.060 or less, it's a week in the primary, a week on glass, then into bottles.
Hope that helps.

 

[Psilophile]

Here's the recipe. I opted for the malt extract/grain mix rather than all grain, as well as the 2 stage fermentation. Here's one thing I did differently: instead of topping up the brew with water when moving it to the secondary, I left the original amount. There is a fair amount of air above the brew, but I was reluctant to dilute the stuff. Is this critical? Should I go ahead and top it up?

I left it in the primary for about 5 days--until the foaming had essentially stopped. The temp was low to mid 70's Fahrenheit for the whole thing. Now it seems to still be working through those sugars, but quite a bit slower. I read somewhere it can take about a month for such a heavy beer, so that's a little encouraging. One thing that's bothering me is the amount of lees at the bottom. It's around 3/4" to 1" of yeast collecting at the bottom there. Will this spoil the beer? Should I rack again perhaps?

Thanks for all the help fellas. I'm green as grass.

 

[Psilophile]

Anyone?

 

[PhillyMike]

Right off the bat, letting it sit in the primary for only five days is too premature. Since you started with a high OG, it's going to take a while for the yeast to do its thing. A slowing of visible activity is not a definite indication of complete fermentation.

I would recommend at least two weeks in primary before transferring. Then transfer. It's then all patience from there. At least a month in secondary before bottling.

 

[emjay]

^what he said.

5 days is too short in the primary for just about any beer, but for something with such a high OG it's insane. Though I disagree with "at least a month in the secondary". I generally keep most beers in the primary for a good 4 weeks or so and don't even bother with secondary, as do many other brewers, and even then 4 weeks is longer than it needs - I wait that long mostly so that I can be pretty confident my beer has finished fermenting without having to constantly check gravity (some beers/yeasts need longer, but it's not typical). I'll check it once before I transfer to the bottling bucket, and will continue with bottling if the FG doesn't seem to high, though with this method I've *never* had it finish too high.

Like I said, I (and many of the best/most experienced brewers on this site) don't bother with secondary, and I recommend just simplifying it for yourself and sticking with a primary for typical beers. However, if you *insist* on using a secondary, there's something you must know...

The "secondary fermentor" is a misnomer. It's a term *only* used by homebrewers, which is unfortunate because it gives newer brewers the wrong idea. Professional brewers that use it generally call it a "bright tank" (or brite tank), because it's used to let suspended yeast and other particles drop out of the beer in order to make it clearer, or "bright", though for many homebrewers it's counterproductive because it can make it take *longer* for stuff to settle.

Why is this important to know? Well, the term "secondary fermentor" is a misnomer because it is NOT used for fermenting *whatsoever*, and thus is not a fermentor. What this means is that, if you want to transfer to a "secondary" (and again, I really recommend making it easier on yourself in the future and trying it with just a primary), you have to make sure that the beer has FINISHED fermenting before doing so. You clearly did not do so, and now you've got only a small fraction of the original yeast... no good.

Now, if it really IS just a case of racking it off the yeast too early, chances are it will still finish, but it will take much longer (since you have fewer yeast cells trying to do the same job). However, it's possible that the yeast could just stall, especially since it's a high gravity beer. So if you don't see any progress, your best bet is probably to pitch more yeast. If you know how to make a starter, make a big one. If you don't know, learn how... a beer this big should always be pitched from a large starter (ANY beer will benefit from pitching from a starter, but it's practically essential for beers over 1.070, along with a good amount of aeration, or ideally oxygenation). Pitch the starter at high krausen... if you have a stirplate it can be difficult to see, but it'll be a very thin layer, and 18 hours is a safe bet (usually longer if no stirplate is used, but it can - and should - be determined by sight if that's the case). The yeast is most active at high krausen, so it's like giving it a running start when you add it to your beer.

Anyways, what yeast strain did you use?

 

[PJM]

One thing that's bothering me is the amount of lees at the bottom. It's around 3/4" to 1" of yeast collecting at the bottom there. Will this spoil the beer? Should I rack again perhaps?

What is lees? Also, I have not done extract for a couple years but I don't think you are supposed to top up when going from primary to secondary. I think you are supposed to top up in the primary before fermentation begins. As the others above have stated, you should have left it in primary for 3 to 4 weeks. Hopefully you still have enough yeast in the secondary to finish the job.

 

[emjay]

What is lees? Also, I have not done extract for a couple years but I don't think you are supposed to top up when going from primary to secondary. I think you are supposed to top up in the primary before fermentation begins. As the others above have stated, you should have left it in primary for 3 to 4 weeks. Hopefully you still have enough yeast in the secondary to finish the job.

Lees is a winemaking term for settled yeast.

 

[PJM]

Oh, thanks.

 

[Maddoghoek]

Leaving it on the yeast cake for an extended period of time is beneficial. It allows them to clean up the by-products of active fermentation. It also allows the beer to clear.

Reading the directions on the site I assume they only sent you 1 smack pack/vial. A single smack or vial is definitely not enough yeast to power through a 1.090 wort. Smack packs and vials have a lower cell count then the dry yeast packets by a significant amount. If that's the case I'd bet you under-pitched and as a result it took longer for it to get going. It's also probably why your gravity is still so high. They may have tired out from being over stressed.

Any time a set of directions tells you to transfer/bottle/etc after X amount of days, just throw that part out. Yeast are done when they're done. They don't work on a schedule.