A cautionary tale, learn from my mistakes!

[Kashue]

So I've had 3 batches in for the long haul: a blackberry cider, a cyser, and a traditional cider that hasn't been behaving itself and getting mellow. I'm giving the traditional cider a full 6 months to think about what it's done, and the cyser maybe longer, but today it was time to try the blackberry.

This was a kind of try-everything drink- I had a 1 gallon jug free and just basically went nuts. It had a full tub of berries to 1 gallon of farm cider, and a bit more sugar than was strictly smart.

After about 6 months of secondary, the watery phase had passed, and the fruit flavors had begun to reassert themselves- or at least the blackberries. The brew is almost bitter with tannins and has no taste of apple, but the blackberry comes through super clear. It is ruthlessly dry; I needed a drink of water after a test glass. It's sitting in bottles now; my hope is to carb it while retaining some sweetness then bottle condition it for another month or so which has done wonders for edgy ciders in the past. Sweeter and mellow, this will be a good batch of whatever it is. Hobo wine?

The lesson here is that if you stick a bunch of dark fruit in your cider, be careful because you may not come back to cider later on. Ah, the fun of experimentation. Now that this bottle is free it's either going to become a traditional cider with maple or a beer.

 

[Schott703]

Oh boy. I've got 5 gallons of cider I fermented dry. I then racked to a secondary with 5lbs of raspberries. I let them sit 1 month. They did a real week secondary fermentation. I then racked a third time to get rid of the berries. It's been sitting 1 month in the 3rd Carboy, and I would like to bottle soon. I plan on keg carbonating then bottling. I never really had a plan or a specific taste outcome in mind, just thought I would do a little experimenting. Anybody have any comments or advice on anything I should do to it before I bottle? I have the same thing in the same stage with 5 gallons of cider with blueberries. Suggestions or experiences appreciated!

 

[Kashue]

I did my fruit in primary, so you might have more of an infusion effect. Also, 1 month off the fruit may not be enough- at that point mine was very watery and vinegary, which seems to be common in wine; the fruit taste came back later on. This is counter to how cider has typically behaved for me (2 weeks to finish primary dry and 3-4 in secondary to get nice) although the basic batch I started most recently finished primary in a week then fired up again in secondary. I racked it AGAIN when that was done and it was strongly fusel, I've been scared to touch it since then :cross:

I think you've been doing it the "right" way vs. my lazy sloppy method. I'd probably just let it sit for a while to get mellow, but I think there's more developed threads about handling that.

 

[TLProulx]

(...)
After about 6 months of secondary, the watery phase had passed, and the fruit flavors had begun to reassert themselves- or at least the blackberries. The brew is almost bitter with tannins and has no taste of apple, but the blackberry comes through super clear. (...)

I have my first cider aging in secondary. When transferring from primary to secondary (3-4 week old), the cider tasted like a watery apple juice.
From what you are saying, it's ok that the cider taste watery and that phase will fade?

 

[Kashue]

Usually when you are fermenting fruit beverages, you will go through some distinct stages:

-The fruit gets punchy and the brew starts to develop a raunchy, upsettingly fecal odor. Folks hereabouts refer to bubbles through the airlock at this time as Rhino farts.

-As the fusel alcohol flavors and initial sourness of primary dissipate, your cider/wine/whatever takes on a sour, weak flavor. This seems to be a longer phase the dryer your beverage is/will be. Cider is noteworthy as it often sort of skips this part, especially if you use relatively chunky farm cider instead of filtered apple juice. This may be because so much of the flavor of apples comes from agents that stay bound up in peel solids, I don't know. I'm not a scientist, I just have a drinking problem.

-Some time later, the flavors of the fruit begin to reassert themselves (minus sweetness) but the sourness of the initial ferment stays gone. The beverage can retain a good deal of sharpness at this point. In some drinks (particularly reds) that can be desirable. Other drinks should be aged further to allow the taste to mellow. In cider, bottle conditioning often takes care of the last notes of harshness; if you ever make a cider that ends up not being as done as you'd hoped, taste one bottle right after it carbs and another a month later. This is a common complaint about event beers too- for instance Dark Lord is often lamented as being inferior on Dark Lord Day to its flavor after a month in the participant's fridge.

So no, your watery taste shouldn't hurt. And when I make normal not-crazypants cider I also throw in some concentrate for extra appleness and sugar at bottling time. I didn't do that here because there was no apple flavor left to amp up; my cyser and cider in now will probably get a half-tube each. With this I'm hoping for more of a sparkling punchy wine at this point.

 

[buckeyeintexas]

"I'm not a scientist. I just have a drinking problem". Love it.