A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer

[fantasticmrfox]

I see 2-row casually tossed around with out specifying what maltster. The majority of 2-row seems to settle in the dist water ph of about 5.7. I've heard Rahr 2-row is known to settle in much lower at around a ph of 5.5. If this is the case would you forgo a 2% addition of sauermalz if using Rahr? Does anyone have experience with Rahr, or know about the process they are using that would cause their malt to be more acidic?

 

[ajdelange]

I see 2-row casually tossed around with out specifying what maltster. The majority of 2-row seems to settle in the dist water ph of about 5.7. I've heard Rahr 2-row is known to settle in much lower at around a ph of 5.5.

I have seen a number like that quoted for the DI mash pH of Rahr and I have seen reports of mashes made using Rahr as a base malt that have mash pH's much lower than can be explained by a base malt with a DI mash pH of 5.5.

If this is the case would you forgo a 2% addition of sauermalz if using Rahr?

I would advise, certainly in terms of the Primer, staying away from this malt until such time as someone gets solid data on it. If it is really as out in left field as it seems to be then it really wouldn't have a place in the Primer recommendations as the Primer is based on KISS which implies normal malts.

Does anyone have experience with Rahr, or know about the process they are using that would cause their malt to be more acidic?

One does see it mentioned from time to time here.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/water-chemistry-stout-520841/

 

[fantasticmrfox]

Thanks AJ! I really appreciate all the work you have put into this forum. It took me over the course of a couple weeks, but I managed to read all 102 pages of the primer.

I will take your advice in regards to the Rahr.

 

[wedraper]

I've read all 103 pages and learned quite a bit. How about partial mashes? Do you treat the water if you are only using some extract?

Bill

 

[ajdelange]

Where most of the fermentables come from extract you don't need to concern yourself with the pH controlling aspects of water treatment (calcium, sauermalz) as the syrup manufacturer should have done that for you. You may still wish to adjust sulfate and chloride (the so called stylistic ions) to adjust body and hops perception.

 

[wedraper]

Thanks for the expeditious response. You guys are great.

Bill

 

[whoaru99]

I have a Scottish Wee Heavy all-grain batch to brew. Grain bill is as follows (5 gal batch).

--15.5 lbs. British Golden Promise
--0.5 lbs English Medium Crystal
--0.375 lbs Belgian Biscuit
--0.125 lbs Roasted Barley

I set up a water distiller and added both pre and post carbon block filters. So, carbon block filter > distiller > carbon block filter.

Which of the KISS water treatments would be most appropriate for the Wee Heavy?

 

[IslandLizard]

I have a Scottish Wee Heavy all-grain batch to brew. Grain bill is as follows (5 gal batch).

--15.5 lbs. British Golden Promise
--0.5 lbs English Medium Crystal
--0.375 lbs Belgian Biscuit
--0.125 lbs Roasted Barley

I set up a water distiller and added both pre and post carbon block filters. So, carbon block filter > distiller > carbon block filter.

Which of the KISS water treatments would be most appropriate for the Wee Heavy?

You are distilling water?

 

[ajdelange]

I'd be tempted to assume that the colored malts would get you to about 5.6 and call that good enough. I would, however, want to check up on that with a pH meter.
'
Where to go with respect to chloride and sulfate will be something you'll have to decide. I always recommend starting out with chloride only and testing additions of sulfate to the resulting beer but if you know you like sulfate you could always do the other way round.

 

[whoaru99]

You are distilling water?

Yes.

I traded a guy an old fish finder for a 0.5 gph water distiller.

 

[djt17]

I've been thinking about distilling water.

 

[whoaru99]

I'd be tempted to assume that the colored malts would get you to about 5.6 and call that good enough. I would, however, want to check up on that with a pH meter.
'
Where to go with respect to chloride and sulfate will be something you'll have to decide. I always recommend starting out with chloride only and testing additions of sulfate to the resulting beer but if you know you like sulfate you could always do the other way round.

Spaced out getting any minerals to make the water profile. At this point all I know for sure is my tap water is pretty hard, ~25 grains per gallon.

So, would you suggest just blending water 2:1 or 3:1, distilled to tap, in order to bring the hardness down?

 

[ajdelange]

Spaced out getting any minerals to make the water profile.

Can you put that in English?

At this point all I know for sure is my tap water is pretty hard, ~25 grains per gallon.

So, would you suggest just blending water 2:1 or 3:1, distilled to tap, in order to bring the hardness down?

I would suggest getting the water analyzed (Ward Labs) in order to know what you are up against. Without that information the only reasonable recommendation is to use RO or distilled water supplemented as suggested in the OP.

 

[whoaru99]

Alright, maybe next time then I will have a water analysis. I am brewing today so am going to mix 2:1 DI/distilled water to filtered tap water.

Oh, the previous means I forgot to get the CaCl when I was at the brew store.

 

[Zippox]

To confirm what I believe to be true: If brewing with soft water or RO water, adding 2% of the grist in sauermalz will likely get the mash pH in the right range automatically?

 

[ajdelange]

Yes if the amount of colored specialty malts is low.

 

[whoaru99]

So, what do you think of this mess?

 

[ajdelange]

Certainly in terms of the Primer it is 'throwaway' water. There is the potential to decarbonate it but that is beyond this thread.

 

[Zippox]

My cities water guy asked what numbers I would like to see on the city water report. Could someone cut/paste all of the information I would want to see on the reports?

 

[ajdelange]

See #1037. Add manganese and silica to that list.

 

[Zippox]

See #1037. Add manganese and silica to that list.

Thanks -- I sent him the list. Hopefully I'll see some good numbers soon! Though I don't have high hopes because I've found my tap water to be insufficient for brewing as-is. Hopefully the report and sharing that information on HBT will help me figure out additions to make it better for brewing.

 

[iijakii]

Questions on a water profile for a Blonde.

I have very soft water, so I was just going to do roughly the baseline here (tailored in Bru'nWater). But I'm wondering if I should add a little Gypsum, since it'll be a somewhat hoppy Blonde. I know that's all subjective taste but I'd appreciate any input. It won't be a bitter blonde, low 20 IBUs, but it'll have some good knockout additions that I'd like to not come out muddled.

I'll definitely do a glass addition blind taste test to develop my own feelings after this, but for this one I'm not sure where to start.

 

[ajdelange]

You could use half a teaspoon of calcium chloride and half of gypsum as a starting point.

 

[whoaru99]

FWIW, that shown in #1037 is the Ward Labs brewer's water analysis. W-5A, from memory.

I asked our municipal water department for a complete water test and they told me they don't test for all that mineral stuff. Said they only test for toxins, coliform, chlorine level, etc. That was asking directly at the treatment plant, not some stuffed shirt at City Hall.

 

[Tegra]

Same here. I was a bit surprised that they had very little concern about what was in the product they are selling. I imagine they figure they will only measure what they have control over and what might be a safety issue.

Turns out our water is so "boring" that there is very little of anything to report.

Which makes it a clean slate for brewing!

Tom

 

[Dozzi]

First time using RO.
I am making this IPA
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=81478

Please advise me if I should add also 1 tsp of gypsum in addition to 1 tsp of calcium chloride? If I understand correct I should treat my water before mashing?

 

[ajdelange]

For something like an IPA the guidelines say yes, use gypsum and calcium chloride. I'd be inclined to start with half a tsp of each rather than a tsp (per 5 gal treated).

These salts should be added to the water before mashing.

 

[Zippox]

For something like an IPA the guidelines say yes, use gypsum and calcium chloride. I'd be inclined to start with half a tsp of each rather than a tsp (per 5 gal treated).

These salts should be added to the water before mashing.

I believe that some of the earlier posts said that an IPA was considered part of the "For very minerally beers" which says Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum.

Is an IPA not considered a minerally beer? I am brewing an IPA soon too so I'm curious which guideline to follow.

 

[ajdelange]

Yes, it is but to my way of thinking 5 grams each is simply too much salt though I recognize that lots of people like that much which is why the Primer says 5 grams of each. Many people find, however, that they like much less. It is incumbent on each brewer to experiment with addition levels to find the one that gives him the beers he prefers.

 

[iijakii]

I think it'd be a good idea if there was a thread of personal mineral content preferences for styles that people could post in. It'd probably save AJ and Mabrun some headache on repeating the same things over an over, and it'd reduce the amount of people looking up city profiles. Or maybe that's just further handholding for us noobs, but it's a thought.