A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer

[ajdelange]

Yes, put the salts in the water but the amounts specified by the Primer are not enough in most cases to reach desirable mash pH. If you are getting 5.6 then add another percent or two sauermalz.


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[Larso]

Thanks AJ, so just to clarify, if I'm doing a stout should I try maybe 1% sauermalz also

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[Sleepyemt]

So this is probably beyond the primer, but longer boil times? How does that affect the beer? For example hair of the dog's Adam is a 5 hr boil, that should change it significantly due to the evaporation and condensing of the boil right?


Edit: it's a 3 hour boil...
Thanks for all the help with the info...
Jp


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[ajdelange]

Thanks AJ, so just to clarify, if I'm doing a stout should I try maybe 1% sauermalz also

For a dry Irish stout I usually get about 5.5 and don't bother with any sauermalz but if you are getting 5.6 then you might want some. Do you have CRS available? That would be more traditional than sauermalz.

 

[Larso]

For a dry Irish stout I usually get about 5.5 and don't bother with any sauermalz but if you are getting 5.6 then you might want some. Do you have CRS available? That would be more traditional than sauermalz.

Damn! I've had CRS and DLS sitting on a shelf for about 2 years and I gave it away a few weeks ago

 

[Pastorken]

Sorry, CRS and DLS????


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[HBrew71]

Brewing a saison. I use 100% RO water. What should I add? Thanks in advance.

 

[tochsner]

I just read the primer and I thought I had it. Then I read a number of replies and now I want to make sure. (Probably shouldn't have read the replies).
I am making a 5 gallon batch of a Burton IPA. I will use 10 gallons of water total for the mash and sparge.
So I need 2% acidulated malt, 4tsp gypsum and 4tsp calcium chloride? Right?

Thanks for this great thread.

 

[ajdelange]

Sounds like a good starting point to me.

 

[Gmccague]

Quick Question:

For water treated, is that water in or beer out? i.e. 10 ga batch = 2 tsp or 3 since it uses 15 ga of water?

Also - does this go in the mash or in the strike/sparge water?

Thanks in advance!

 

[ajdelange]

1. Water in
2. The water.

 

[c0bra]

I tried searching this thread but didn't find it. Are there weights (in grams, etc) listed for these additions so people making batches <5 gallons can make similar adjustments? I don't know what a teaspoon of CaCl would weigh vs a teaspoon of gypsum.

 

[ajdelange]

About 5 grams each.

 

[tochsner]

I am going to try my first decoction this weekend. It's just 2-row and wheat. Do I still use the acid malt or does the decoction have any effect on the mash ph?

 

[ajdelange]

You still use the acid malt but a decoction can sometimes produce a slight lowering of the pH.

 

[winvarin]

I'm about 1/3 of the way through this thread. If this particular topic is cleared up at some point, I will come back and retract this question. However, in the 30 or so pages I have read, I seem to be getting some conflicting impressions about expected pH at room temperature.

I always measure my pH at room temp with a meter. Although my meter claims to have ATC, I usually cool my sample to about 70F in order to preserve the probe health.

Now for my confusion:

Early in the thread, I believe I've read where AJ says that a pH of approximately 5.2 (ideally 5.3 to 5.4) is what we're all shooting for. I also gather from what I am reading that AJ believes this range to be acceptable when measured at room temperature.

However, I just read (in the page 25 range) where Martin claims a pH of 5.2 at room temp results in an overly acidic beer.

I've always used 5.2 at room temperature as my guide and for the last year or so, have been able to use my meter, RO water and lactic acid + salt additions to hit 5.2-5.3 pretty consistently on my beers.

I use TH's spreadsheet to help me get a ballpark view of my additions' effects prior to brewday. My RA number (per that sheet) are almost always at or below 0.

From a taste perspective, I have over acidified a couple of times, but never to the point where it rendered the beer undrinkable. Only that with two beers, I know that I've made tasting notes that I felt they would have been better if I'd brought the pH up slightly. (one a porter where the black malt character was a little harsh, and one an amber that was a little tart for what I was targeting)

So my question is this. Knowing that I measure my pH at 70F (I cool my sample in an ice bath and monitor the temp), what is a good pH to be targeting when measuring at that temp? Should I shoot for 5.2? Or when measuring at that temperature, should I be trying to get closer to the 5.4-5.5 range?

I think I've gotten enough of a handle on how my acid/mineral additions change the pH in my system, that I should be able to make some adjustments and pretty easily hit the higher number. I'm just a little confused as to what number I should be shooting for at 70F.

If it helps, the beers I repeat most often are British bitters, brown ales and the occasional stout or porter. I also have an American blonde that has a regular spot in my rotation as my neighbors really enjoy it.

 

[ajdelange]

The first thing to keep in mind is that a low pH will not result in a beer with a low pH. Within reason, beer pH is independent of mash and kettle pH as beer pH is set by the yeast. Low kettle pH and the yeast simply expend less effort at establishing the pH they want. Let kettle pH get too high and they have to work harder i.e. expend more metabolic energy producing acid than they would otherwise. There is probably an argument in here that says if you acidify the wort to 4.8 before pitching you'll get more alcohol but I'm not prepared to make it as I can't support it.

This does not mean that a mash pH of 5.2 at room temperature is good. Something more like 5.4 is probably appropriate. This doesn't have to do with yeast health so much as that there are hundreds of reactions going on in a mash tun and 5.4 seems to me to be the pH at which they all seem to synergize best and produce the best tasting beer. In reality pH is like any other variable. For a particular beer there is a pH that will produce a beer better than any other pH. A commercial operator brewing the same beer hundreds of time in a year may have a prayer of finding out what that is but we as home brewers don't brew enough to make the fine tweaks and perform the taste tests necessary to find that. 5.4 seems to work. Being off a tenth or two in either direction doesn't seem to invite disaster.

 

[johnwatson83]

I just did this addition to my water for an ipa. 2tsp of gypsum 2tsp of calcium chloride. My ppm is in the low five hundreds. Does that seem high to anyone else?

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[johnwatson83]

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[ajdelange]

I'd consider 1 tsp of each in, presumably, 5 gal, a lot. The Primer talks about numbers like that because most home brewers seem to like beers with those high levels. I really think 1/2 tsp of CaCl2 and no gypsum is a good starting point. If you are sure you want sulfate, as determined by adding it to beers at tasting, then 1/2 gypsum and 1/2 CaCl2 is a good starting point.

 

[farmskis]

By Ajdelange



For very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum.

What is the gypsum amount to double? The baseline has no gypsum to begin with...

 

[lazzlo]

I have always taken it to mean double the amount from the British beer, so 2 tablespoons or 10 grams if you prefer.

 

[ajdelange]

Just so. IMO that's a lot of salts but some say they like it that way.

 

[kcbrewmeister]

Does the primer specifically apply to ag or is it useful for extract brewing as well?


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[afr0byte]

Does the primer specifically apply to ag or is it useful for extract brewing as well?


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Ag only

 

[MichaelBrock]

Does the primer specifically apply to ag or is it useful for extract brewing as well?

The main idea of the primer is to keep the water chemistry simple and to adjust the ph of the mash. Extract brewers have the mash step already done for them so there isn't any need to make any adjustments.

 

[kcbrewmeister]

Got it thanks for the reply


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[masonsjax]

Extract brewers could experiment with adding minerals to the kettle to enhance flavors for certain styles, like adding gypsum to an IPA for instance. That's probably covered jn other threads though.

 

[alemonster]

Used the primer for 2 brews! The results have been very good. I did an Irish red and a DIPA. Very simple and straight forward. What a great way to start. If you are concerned, make a basic recipe and try it. This is what I plan to do from now on. Start with RO water and build it from there. Some great piece of mind when you don't have to deal with local water.


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[jdauria]

Making hoppy brown ale (aka Janet's Brown), grist is:

Two row 12.5 lbs
Crystal 40 1.25 lbs
Carapils 1.00 lbs
Wheat malt 1.00 lbs
Choc. (420 L) 0.50 llbs
SRM 22

Using 100% distilled water, adding 3 tsp gypsum, 1 tsp calcium chloride, no acid malt. Per Brewer's Friend gives me Ca 112, Cl 56, SO4 193, mash PH of 5.37. And a 3:1 sulfate to chloride ratio, which is good for a hoppy beer. Does that look doable?

I know Tasty's water profile for this beer uses a 7:1 Sulfate/Chloride ratio, so if I want to up the ratio a little, 1 tsp of Epson Salt will give me a 4.2:1 ratio and 5.36 estimated Ph.

Any forseeable issues with either of those profiles?