A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer

[emjay]

AJ (and Yoop, I guess)... there's one part of your guide that is bound to confuse some people.

Baseline: Add 1 tsp of calcium chloride dihydrate (what your LHBS sells) to each 5 gallons of water treated. Add 2% sauermalz to the grist.

Deviate from the baseline as follows:

For soft water beers (i.e Pils, Helles). Use half the baseline amount of calcium chloride and increase the sauermalz to 3%

For beers that use roast malt (Stout, porter): Skip the sauermalz.

For British beers: Add 1 tsp gypsum as well as 1 tsp calcium chloride

For very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum.

For all your baseline deviations, it's written in terms of how to adjust the baseline (which makes sense, since you said "deviate from the baseline as follows"). Except the part for British beers, which is written in absolute terms. It reads like people should adjust 5 gallons of RO water with 2tsp calcium chloride (adding 1 to 1), when I know you just mean 1tsp, because you've said so yourself before.

Just thought it may be helpful to consider making it a bit more clear.

 

[RDWHAHB]

AJ (and Yoop, I guess)... there's one part of your guide that is bound to confuse some people.



For all your baseline deviations, it's written in terms of how to adjust the baseline (which makes sense, since you said "deviate from the baseline as follows"). Except the part for British beers, which is written in absolute terms. It reads like people should adjust 5 gallons of RO water with 2tsp calcium chloride (adding 1 to 1), when I know you just mean 1tsp, because you've said so yourself before.

Just thought it may be helpful to consider making it a bit more clear.

With that change and listing more styles in the 1st post there would be a lot fewer questions.

 

[flabyboy]

I basically just use RO water with a little bit of spring water mixed in. I usually add a very small amount of lactic acid (<1 cc) to both my mash and sparge water. I always add my dark roasted grains and crystal malts during mashout. I add a tsp of calcium chloride to my mash with malty beers or 1 tsp gypsum for a hop forward beer. I have enjoyed my results so far

 

[sivdrinks]

I'm still not clear on the baseline deviations. Could someone clear it up and maybe list more beer styles? IPA, wheat, Belgians?

 

[emjay]

I'm still not clear on the baseline deviations. Could someone clear it up and maybe list more beer styles? IPA, wheat, Belgians?

IPA: 1tsp calcium chloride, possibly 1tsp gypsum (to accent hop bitterness)

Wheat, Belgians (possible exception of Saison): 1tsp calcium chloride, possibly 2tsp for Belgian (to further emphasize maltiness)

Once you know what calcium chloride and gypsum do, it's pretty easy to determine it for yourself.

 

[ajdelange]

It's probably time to do a bit of a re-write. I'll look into it when I get back from Seattle.

 

[flabyboy]

IPA: 1tsp calcium chloride, possibly 1tsp gypsum (to accent hop bitterness)

Wheat, Belgians (possible exception of Saison): 1tsp calcium chloride, possibly 2tsp for Belgian (to further emphasize maltiness)

Once you know what calcium chloride and gypsum do, it's pretty easy to determine it for yourself.

I would think the gypsum would be more important than the calcium chloride for the IPA style

 

[nyer]

It's probably time to do a bit of a re-write. I'll look into it when I get back from Seattle.

I just wanted to thank you for this thread. I started using distilled water and the water adjustments from here because my well water sucked so bad. Since then I have brewed an IPA, ESB, apricot wheat and the real triple hopped miller light.
The IPA was ok but I screwed up and mashed to high so it ended up sweet. The ESB and apricot wheat turned out great and are the first beers I have brewed that don't have a strange off taste that I noticed before (most people never noticed it but it drove me crazy). The ML is in secondary so it will be a while.

 

[ajdelange]

I would think the gypsum would be more important than the calcium chloride for the IPA style

Yes, one might think that but I always recommend starting with calcium chloride and adding calcium sulfate or replacing some of the calcium chloride with calcium sulfate because the effects of sulfate aren't pleasing in many peoples' opinion while at the same time others like them. You need to find out which type drinker you are. Put differently, it is entirely possible that you might like a high chloride IPA better than a high sulfate one. OTOH you might find such a beer insipid.

 

[Larso]

I'm brewing a wit using 35 litres (biab) of Bottled water for a 20 litre brew with this profile here



can anyone tell me how I should treat it please? I've got calcium chloride , calcium sulphate, crs and dls. Sorry for askin you's to do the work but I'm puttin on the mash tonight an I've a busy day ahead

Thanks

L

 

[emjay]

I'm brewing a wit using 35 litres (biab) of Bottled water for a 20 litre brew with this profile here

can anyone tell me how I should treat it please? I've got calcium chloride , calcium sulphate, crs and dls. Sorry for askin you's to do the work but I'm puttin on the mash tonight an I've a busy day ahead

Thanks

L

What kind of bottled water is it?

If it's distilled or reverse osmosis water, then you'd add 2tsp calcium chloride in the 35 to 40 litres of water.

But if it's something else (eg spring water), it's a bit harder to tell, uulll it's impossible for us to know what's in YOUR particular bottled water. Does the bottle include a breakdown of the mineral content? More specifically calcium, magnesium, chloride, and sulfate would at least help give us a better idea of what you're working with. Though it's VERY unlikely you can go wrong with half the proscribed amount - in your case,that would be 1tsp calcium chloride in the entire starting liquor volume of 35L.

 

[Larso]

Thx Emjay, it's spring water, the mineral breakdown is on the image I posted, ca = 10, cl = 12, sulphate = 10, bicarbonate = 25, sodium = 9, magnesium = 2.5, they're all mg/l. Certainly not RO unfortunately. Can't buy that bottled here

Thanx

L

 

[ajdelange]

But it's low enough that you can practically consider it RO. I'd be inclined to follow the recommendations of the Primer at the top of this thread. For the acid you could use the amount of CRS recommended by Brewpaks for the specified amount of alkalinity which is the specified bicarbonate*50/61 = 25*50/61 = 20 i.e. not much.

 

[Larso]

But it's low enough that you can practically consider it RO. I'd be inclined to follow the recommendations of the Primer at the top of this thread. For the acid you could use the amount of CRS recommended by Brewpaks for the specified amount of alkalinity which is the specified bicarbonate*50/61 = 25*50/61 = 20 i.e. not much.

Thanks Aj, are you saying I can use crs instead of sauermalz which I don't have! Also do I treat it like a soft water beer? Or a British beer as in a pale ale kind of beer??

Thanks

L

 

[ajdelange]

Thanks Aj, are you saying I can use crs instead of sauermalz which I don't have[?]

Yes. An equivalent of one acid is, well, equivalent, to one equivalent of another acid in terms of pH control. The flavors might be different and a wit is one place where lactic flavor is definitely a plus so lactic would be the better choice here but CRS should do, especially as so little will be needed.

Also do I treat it like a soft water beer?

I would but the waters of Belgium are diverse. Best thing, of course, would be to brew it with soft and hard water and see which gives the most pleasing result.

 

[beertroll]

Does anyone have any thoughts about water considerations for mead, assuming AJ's baseline as a starting point? Obviously, sauermalz is right out, but acid blend would probably accomplish much the same thing. My gut tells me that mead water would require more salt additions than beer water since honey doesn't have as much mineral content as malt, but my mead knowledge is pretty limited.

 

[gbx]

Hello AJ, you participated in a panel discussion on water chem at NHC. Was this recorded? Is there anyway I can watch this online?

During a quick search on youtube for it, I found this video of a recent lecture on water chem by John Palmer:



He spends a lot of time on SRM vs RA which I thought was a concept that was all but abandoned ("a handwave a best"). Assuming it is a recent lecture, do you have any thoughts on this?

 

[ajdelange]

Yes, it was recorded (audio only) and I just had a note from one of the other panelists (Colin Kaminsky) saying that he had listened to it but I haven't been able to find it on the AHA site, where, they told us, it would be posted in a couple of weeks so I don't know where Colin found it. I'd say be patient and it will pop up. Of course it's just me reiterating what I say here and Martin reiterating what he says here but Colin and John made some interesting comments too.

John still feels that RA is a powerful tool for water analysis but I believe he is backing off on it as a driving design parameter. And you have doubtless seen me post here many times that while there is a correlation between SRM and the RA of the source water it is much too weak to allow color to serve as a driving design parameter. This is more or less equivalent to calling it a 'hand wave'.

 

[mabrungard]

The audio from the Water Panel is available on the Members Only portion of the AHA site. Another reason to be an AHA member!

 

[ajdelange]

I'm starting to feel pretty stupid but all I can find is a couple of audio presentations from 2011. Could you post the URL? Thanks.

 

[gbx]

I was a having a non-beer related conversation about our water (the guy believes in conspiracy theories about flourination) and I found this: "...Metro Vancouver is introducing sodium carbonate (soda ash) into our tap water to make it more alkaline...The current target is to adjust our tap water pH levels up to pH 7 &#8211; 7.5. Ultimately, Metro Vancouver Water District intends to raise the pH of our water to pH 8 or higher once the Seymour-Capilano Filtration Project is complete (2013?)." http://yourwatermatters.com/vancouv...er-tap-water-ph-adjustments-no-longer-acidic/ Does this threaten our perfect brewing water? How much sodium carbonate is needed to raise the pH of practically distilled water. The current water is as follows: Ca 1.4ppm, Cl 1.8ppm, SO4 1ppm, CO3 4.6ppm, Mg 0.2ppm I'm hoping that it won't put the sodium or carbonate too high

 

[smashed4]

Wow these minerals number are incredibly low.. Even lower than pilsen water..

Most city do alkalinize their water to prevent corroding the pipes, so that's not unheard of..

The sodium should be watched for but the carbonates are only going to build some buffer in your water...

Unless you plan on doing only pilsners all the time, that water needs quite a lot of tinkering for most beers...

 

[ajdelange]

I was a having a non-beer related conversation about our water (the guy believes in conspiracy theories about flourination)

I have been on earth long enough to remember when fluoridation was first proposed and the debate over it. It was deemed a communist plot to render our children so stupid that the country would fall to socialism. Turns out the prognostication was correct but I find it hard to believe it's the F- ion that is responsible.

The current water is as follows: Ca 1.4ppm, Cl 1.8ppm, SO4 1ppm, CO3 4.6ppm, Mg 0.2ppm I'm hoping that it won't put the sodium or carbonate too high

This water is quite aggressive with the saturation pH (the pH at which calcium carbonate will deposit in the mains) being 10.69 i.e. much higher than the water's actual pH. The mains will corrode.

"...Metro Vancouver is introducing sodium carbonate (soda ash) into our tap water to make it more alkaline...The current target is to adjust our tap water pH levels up to pH 7 &#8211; 7.5. Ultimately, Metro Vancouver Water District intends to raise the pH of our water to pH 8 or higher once the Seymour-Capilano Filtration Project is complete (2013?)."

Raising the pH of the water to 8 obviously gets it closer to the saturation pH than 6.8 (the approximate current value) but not enough to prevent corrosion. Slow it certainly but water with the current level of alkalinity at pH 8 would still be quite corrosive. Adding soda ash is obviously a simple and inexpensive way to increase pH.

Does this threaten our perfect brewing water? How much sodium carbonate is needed to raise the pH of practically distilled water.

No threat because so little is required as the buffering capacity of the current water is so low. Only 2.3 mg/L of soda ash would be needed. This would raise the sodium by 0.4 mg/L and the alkalinity to 5.5 (from the current 4.6). The bicarbonate level would go to 5.4 mg/L (from the current 3.2) This maneuver only lowers the saturation pH to 10.47 (from 10.69) and the water will still be quite corrosive to metal pipe (this is why RO water, which this stuff resembles is run around in plastic pipe). To fix the corrosivity problem the plant would have to introduce additional calcium as well as additional carbonate. But I'm sure the engineers understand their distribution system better than I do and just raising the pH will doubtless improve the situation with respect to the mains. I wonder about the home owner though. I would think Vancouver plumbers would be happy campers with the current or the new pH levels unless Pex pipe has supplanted copper everywhere in your fair city.

 

[gbx]

Awesome! thanks for the response. In the water FAQs section on the city website there is a "Why is my bathtub water blue?" section that talks about copper corrosion. I think you might be right about the plumbers - our 30 year old townhouse has had the original copper piping fail due to corrosion on 2 separate occasions in the 3 years we've lived here.

 

[gbx]

I have been on earth long enough to remember when fluoridation was first proposed and the debate over it. It was deemed a communist plot to render our children so stupid that the country would fall to socialism. Turns out the prognostication was correct but I find it hard to believe it's the F- ion that is responsible.

I was just thinking about this...a little off topic but its interesting that the conspiracy theory survived longer than the communist threat. The story now is that the illuminatti, reptilians, new world order, etc are the ones responsible for trying to subdue us with flouride.

 

[ajdelange]

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

 

[Larso]

Hi, I don't fully understand the baseline use of sauermalz in RO water. I'm brewing a bitter next with bottled water that has caco3 of 20ppm. I have brupaks crs. According to brupaks I shouldn't use any crs in this water but the baseline instructions would have me add sauermalz as an acidifying agent? Why is that?

Thanks

L

 

[jmf143]

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

The more things change, the more they stay the same?

 

[ajdelange]

The more things change, the more they stay the same?

Oui!

The man is wise who says little?

 

[ajdelange]

Hi, I don't fully understand the baseline use of sauermalz in RO water. I'm brewing a bitter next with bottled water that has caco3 of 20ppm. I have brupaks crs. According to brupaks I shouldn't use any crs in this water but the baseline instructions would have me add sauermalz as an acidifying agent?

Difference in philosophies. There is no one correct answer in any of this. I don't know Brupaks' reasoning here but I believe it is that Carbonate Reducing Solution (CRS) is to be added to the extent that alkalinity is neutralized. Thus the treated water is more or less like distilled water in terms of setting mash pH. Twenty ppm as CaCO3 is not very much alkalinity to the extent that they apparently feel that the water is close enough to distilled as is - no treatment is required.

I do know what my philosophy is and that is that a distilled water mash will be too high - in the 5.6 - 5.7 range depending on the base malt and darker malts if any are used. Therefore, additional acid is required i.e. enough to get the pH down a couple tenths of a point or 2-3%. It doesn't have to be sauermalz. CRS can serve as the source of additional acid if you can tolerate the sulfate. Or the acid can be lactic or phosphoric. The primer mentions sauermalz because it is easy to obtain, easy to measure out, easy to calculate and safe. And we do not have CRS this side of the pond.