A Brewing Experiment

[wpilon]

I've been making Mr Beer batches for a few years now and I've always wondered what (if anything) I'm missing by not doing my own hop boils etc. On the other hand, I'm a big believer in the 80/20 rule, that is, you can get 80% of the benefit of most things with 20% of the work. So I've decided to run a direct comparison experiment to see if I can figure out whether the extra work and time involved in doing the full boil results in a beer that enough better than Mr. Beer to justify the work.

So here's what I did.

Last week, I made a 2.5 gallon batch of the Mr Beer "Grand Bohemian Czech Pilsner" using the can of HME, two packets of booster, and 1 lb. of Mailliard Malt Pilsner LME I pitched one smack-pack of Wyeast 2278 Czech Pils and put it in the fermentation chamber at 55F. O.G. was 1.053. Total ingredient cost = $28.94. Total time spent = 45 minutes.

This weekend, I made a 2.5 gallon batch of Pilsner using 2.5 gallons of water, 3lbs of Briesse Pilsnen Light DME. I dissolved the DME in the water, fired up the burner and brought the wort to a boil. After the hot break, I added .75 ounces of Czech Saaz hops and boiled for 45 minutes. With 15 minutes to go, I added another .25 ounces of Saaz. At the end of the boil, I put the pot in an ice bath and got the wort down to 68F in about 15 minutes, pitched one smack-pack of Wyeast 2278 Czech Pils and put it in the fermentation chamber at 55F. O.G, was 1.058. Total ingredient cost = $21.97, Total time spent = 2 hours.

I tried to get the IBUs on the two beers pretty close, but no guarantees. I do prefer lower levels of hops and bitterness so I think they'll both be good. The plan is to treat the two batches exactly the same; 3 weeks in the fermentation chamber, 72 hour diacetyl rest @ 65F, 48 hours cold-crash @ 35F, then bottle. The Mr Beer batch will have a small advantage of being a week older at each stage of the comparison, but I'm okay with that.

Anyway, stay tuned and I'll keep y'all posted about the results.

 

[mongoose33]

Good on you for doing some experimentation. As I'm sure you're aware, the two sets of ingredients are not necessarily equivalent, and not knowing how the Mr. Beer was hopped means you're taking a shot at trying to duplicate it...and probably missing to some degree.

That said, you'll probably like one better than the other, and that will give you some indication of the direction you'd like to head.

You might look around your local area and see if there's a local homebrew club. Usually at LHBC meetings, members bring their beers for tastings and even competitions. If you could taste some of these beers you might better be able to judge whether your Mr. Beer output is comparable to what can be done using a variety of processes in homebrewing.

 

[Manufacturedevolution]

A 45 minute brew day sounds awesome. Took me a little over 5 hours today from start to cleaned up.

 

[wpilon]

Good on you for doing some experimentation. As I'm sure you're aware, the two sets of ingredients are not necessarily equivalent, and not knowing how the Mr. Beer was hopped means you're taking a shot at trying to duplicate it...and probably missing to some degree.

That said, you'll probably like one better than the other, and that will give you some indication of the direction you'd like to head.

Yeah, I have no idea what the Mr Beer is hopped with, all I know is that its advertised as having 27 IBUs and "traditional spicy Saaz aroma". The good news is I'm not so much trying to duplicate the Mr Beer brew as I am trying to get a nice, drinkable, relatively low bitterness, lager type beer with the least amount of effort and expense.

I like the Mr Beer product, but its a bit expensive at $30ish a case and I'm wondering if I can get a better beer at significantly less cost by putting in a bit more work.

Plus I like frakking around with beer and sciencey stuff on the weekend.

 

[wpilon]

A 45 minute brew day sounds awesome. Took me a little over 5 hours today from start to cleaned up.

Yeah 45 minutes is good, but I'm not really "brewing" beer, its more like the difference between making ice tea using hot water and tea bags or using powdered tea.

From your five hours, I'd say you were an all-grain guy? My hat is off to you, but there's no way I'm going to do that. I'll bet you make some damn fine beer though...

I will say this. After having done my first hop boil out on my driveway, if I start doing them regularly, I'll shift up to five gallon batches from the current two and a half gallon ones that fit in my LBK.

 

[kh54s10]

If you decide that brewing is actually fun, you may decide that it is worth a little more time to save a good deal of money. I have been brewing long enough that I haven't had to keep buying equipment. I was keeping track of all my expenses and got below $2 per bottle about 4 years ago. (including the equipment). I can brew 5 gallons in about the 5 hours that you don't want to do for not much more if even any than the $21.97 for your 2.5 gallon self hopped batch. It requires all grain brewing and buying grains and hops in larger discounted quantities.

 

[mongoose33]

Yeah 45 minutes is good, but I'm not really "brewing" beer, its more like the difference between making ice tea using hot water and tea bags or using powdered tea.

From your five hours, I'd say you were an all-grain guy? My hat is off to you, but there's no way I'm going to do that. I'll bet you make some damn fine beer though...

I will say this. After having done my first hop boil out on my driveway, if I start doing them regularly, I'll shift up to five gallon batches from the current two and a half gallon ones that fit in my LBK.

Yeah, I have no idea what the Mr Beer is hopped with, all I know is that its advertised as having 27 IBUs and "traditional spicy Saaz aroma". The good news is I'm not so much trying to duplicate the Mr Beer brew as I am trying to get a nice, drinkable, relatively low bitterness, lager type beer with the least amount of effort and expense.

I like the Mr Beer product, but its a bit expensive at $30ish a case and I'm wondering if I can get a better beer at significantly less cost by putting in a bit more work.

Plus I like frakking around with beer and sciencey stuff on the weekend.

Then I would say you're a candidate for all-grain brewing. It does take longer, but the price is cheaper and, IMO, the product much better.

You have far greater control over the process and the recipe with all-grain. Depending on the recipe, I might end up spending $20 for a 5-gallon batch, which produces 50-bottles equivalent. Some more, sure, but I get to decide exactly what and how I brew it.

You can actually get the brewing down to under 4 hours if you do brew-in-a-bag, and there are other places you can gain time efficiencies. If you want to do that. There's a certain pleasure in the relaxed pace of brewing as opposed to hurrying as fast as I can--and I've done both. Reminds me of golf--occasional need to make a shot, interspersed with periods of pleasant inactivity.

And if you like frakking around with beer and sciencey stuff, you'd love doing all-grain. It's why finding a LHBC might help you decide one way or another. As for me, when I go to a bar and order a beer, it's almost always the case I wish I had my own homebrew instead of what they have on tap.

 

[wpilon]

If you decide that brewing is actually fun, you may decide that it is worth a little more time to save a good deal of money. I have been brewing long enough that I haven't had to keep buying equipment. I was keeping track of all my expenses and got below $2 per bottle about 4 years ago. (including the equipment). I can brew 5 gallons in about the 5 hours that you don't want to do for not much more if even any than the $21.97 for your 2.5 gallon self hopped batch. It requires all grain brewing and buying grains and hops in larger discounted quantities.

Sure, and I'm sure the all grain would, in addition, be better beer. But I just don't have enough free time or, frankly, enough interest in beer to devote five hours to making it.

Maybe in a few years when I've retired....

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

...
I like the Mr Beer product, but its a bit expensive at $30ish a case and I'm wondering if I can get a better beer at significantly less cost by putting in a bit more work.

Plus I like frakking around with beer and sciencey stuff on the weekend.

I brew both DME and BIAB - each for different reasons and each with good results. Others covered the advantages of BAIB.

With DME, my brew session is two hours and relaxed Need something shorter? Basic Brewing Radio talks about a 60 minute brewing session. In the past couple of years, Briess has introduced a number of additional DME products (Pale Ale, Munich, Vienna) in addition to the "classic" pilsen, light, and wheat DME. Making use of the six different "base" DMEs will give you more control in recipe creation than extract brewers had 10 years ago. Combine these six base DMEs with a 15 minute boil (web search: 15 minute pale ale) and some of the recent ideas from the Basic Brewing Radio test batches (for example: DME + just a hop steep) and a lot of enjoyable beer can be made in under a couple of hours.

 

[wpilon]

Ok time for an update:

I checked the gravity on the two beers last night and both were right at 1.016. That's the expected final gravity for the boiled DME batch (according to the Brewer's Friend recipe tool I'm using) after only eleven days of fermentation. The beer is clearing up nicely but its still a bit more bitter than I expected based on the hop boil that I did. Perhaps it will lose some bitterness as it gets a bit older and the hops settle out as the beer continues to clear.

The Mr Beer Pils has me scratching my head a little bit. Its expected FG is 1.011 but after 19 days in the its only down to 1.016, exactly where it was when I tested it Monday. The Brewer's Friend recipe says the FG would be 1.011, but I did a "best guesstimate" to account for the Mr Beer kit ingredients. And its still a little sweet so maybe its not done fermenting yet.

On the other hand, the OG was 1.053 and the yeast (Wyeast 2278) has an average attenuation of 72% which seems to indicate the yeast should eat about 38 points (out of the 53 available) of the gravity leaving a FG of 1.015 or so.

Anyway, I'm going to pull it out of the 55F fermentation chamber tonight and leave it out for a diacetyl rest and see where I am over the weekend.

Stay tuned!

 

[kh54s10]

You can't go by instructions, recipes or calculators predicted FG numbers. They are just that = predictions. There are many variables that will cause the beer to miss that number either high or low.

With extracts it is fairly common for them to finish at 1.020 and there is really nothing you can do about that.

1.016 is a respectable FG.

IMO, you only get an idea of what the finished beer will taste like at the time of reaching FG. Depending on the type of beer it might be dramatically different when conditioned and in the case of big beers, aged.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

You can't go by instructions, recipes or calculators predicted FG numbers. They are just that = predictions. There are many variables that will cause the beer to miss that number either high or low.

+1.

With extracts it is fairly common for them to finish at 1.020 and there is really nothing you can do about that.

This is not my experience with my DME or BIAB+DME (partial mash, mini-mash, ...) recipes.

• Higher attenuating yeast strains will make a difference. When I brew extract based recipes, I tend to avoid low attenuating yeast strains (that are often unable to convert maltotriose). Experiment: brew a Belgian Triple (Brewing Classic Styles has one) and split the batch with T-58 and Mangrove Jacks M31.

• Adding sugar (when appropriate) will make a difference. Brülosophy Podcast episode 41, The Use Of Sugar In Brewing, may be of interest.

• When mashing base malts in addition to the DME (BAIB+DME), mashing at a lower temperature (say 148* F) will make a difference - making that portion of the wort "more fermentable" (less maltotriose).

• There are a couple of other techniques that I suspect will also help - but I haven't tried them yet and won't speculate here.

 

[mxstar21]

Try adding steeping grains or doing a mini-mash on the stove. You can use a small pot you already have and a cheap grain bag. Only adds 30 minutes to an hour or so and can really add some nice flavors to the Mr. Beer kits. I loved doing the Mr. Beer kits and made some great beers with them.

 

[kh54s10]

With extracts it is fairly common for them to finish at 1.020 and there is really nothing you can do about that.

+1.



This is not my experience with my DME or BIAB+DME (partial mash, mini-mash, ...) recipes.

• Higher attenuating yeast strains will make a difference. When I brew extract based recipes, I tend to avoid low attenuating yeast strains (that are often unable to convert maltotriose). Experiment: brew a Belgian Triple (Brewing Classic Styles has one) and split the batch with T-58 and Mangrove Jacks M31.

• Adding sugar (when appropriate) will make a difference. Brülosophy Podcast episode 41, The Use Of Sugar In Brewing, may be of interest.

• When mashing base malts in addition to the DME (BAIB+DME), mashing at a lower temperature (say 148* F) will make a difference - making that portion of the wort "more fermentable" (less maltotriose).

• There are a couple of other techniques that I suspect will also help - but I haven't tried them yet and won't speculate here.

The finishing at 1.020 has not been my experience either but is often the case. I do find that my extracts usually finish a few points higher that a similar all grain batch using the same yeast. But not always.

You can use techniques to get a lower FG but new brewers using kits are not going to have this knowledge (usually).