A balancing act

[user 163849]

The only other time I had two different beers in my fermentation fridge the first one, a stout, had already been in the fridge for a week and visible fermentation activity had slowed down considerably. So when I added the second beer, a brown ale using a different yeast, I simply moved the temp probe to the side of the new bucket figuring the stout would be fine. I think I may have lowered the setting of the stc-1000 a little to accommodate the different yeast. Both beers turned out to be quiet good but the longer the stout stayed in the bottle the more it would foam upon pouring.

I am a beginner and VERY far from knowing what I am talking about but I figured that lowering the temperature of the fridge and thus the stout, mid fermentation, to accommodate the brown ale stalled fermentation of the stout then it continued to ferment in the bottles. There were no bottle bombs or gushers, just very slow to pour due to foaming.

Now, once again, I have a stout in the fridge approaching one week into fermentation. And as last time evidence of activity has ceased, this after blowing the lid off the bucket some time in the first night in spite of using a blow off tube, but that is another story.

So at about day 5 on the stout I brewed an Irish Red Ale. The yest supplied with the stout kit was SO-4 while Nottingham was provided with the Irish Red. The suggested temps for the two yeasts are very similar, the mid point of both were exactly the same 63.5 degrees f. So that seems like a good thing if they are to share the fermentation fridge.

After putting the Irish Red in with the Stout I soon noticed that the temp probe monitoring the Stout had informed the stc-1000 that all was well only minutes after putting the Red in the fridge. So, the balancing act begins,trying to keep both buckets within their temperature range as they equalize. I first thought of moving the probe to the Red's bucket but then recalled that I had just assembled my spare stc-1000 into a functioning controller. So instead I rigged the second bucket for a temp probe, plugged the fridge into the new controller which was monitoring the warmest of the two buckets. I checked on them occasionally just to make sure that the Stout did not cool below it's range hoping not to repeat the results of last time. By using the two controllers I could move the fridge plug from one to the other if the stout started getting too cool rather than open the fridge door to move the probe to close in on balancing the two. My set up allows me to keep the door closed unless there is a problem mainly due to the closed circuit camera's audio which allows me to hear what is going on, I rarely check the actual video. When the lid blew off the bucket it was the lack of audible "heartbeat" from the fermenter which led me to look up at the monitor and see that all was not well.

This morning the temperature of the two buckets has balanced out so I now I wait. The morning after brewing the Stout it had blown the lid off the bucket while this morning when I checked on the Irish Red there is still no evidence of fermentation. Hope it starts soon.

 

[ncbrewer]

You might consider taking the first batch out of the fermenter before putting the second one in. Exact temp control isn't that important after active fermentation is finished. I've read many places that it is good to let the temp rise after active fermentation is finished, to make sure you get complete attenuation. To keep some temp control, I keep it in a tub of water and add ice once in a while (or heat it in the winter). It doesn't take much attention to keep the temp reasonable during this time.

 

[chickypad]

You might consider taking the first batch out of the fermenter before putting the second one in. Exact temp control isn't that important after active fermentation is finished. I've read many places that it is good to let the temp rise after active fermentation is finished, to make sure you get complete attenuation. To keep some temp control, I keep it in a tub of water and add ice once in a while (or heat it in the winter). It doesn't take much attention to keep the temp reasonable during this time.

This is the answer. If anything you want the stout to warm up a bit now to finish off. I certainly wouldn't sacrifice temp control on the actively fermenting beer - which means once it gets going you're going to end up chilling the stout again.

 

[brewkinger]

This ^^^
Is indeed the answer.
Stop causing yourself so much trouble and get the stout out and let it warm up.
Like was mentioned, warming up the beer after active ferment wakes the yeast and they go back and clean up any residual long chain sugars and they actually clean up their own waste product too.
Especially Notty.

 

[user 163849]

You might consider taking the first batch out of the fermenter before putting the second one in. Exact temp control isn't that important after active fermentation is finished. I've read many places that it is good to let the temp rise after active fermentation is finished, to make sure you get complete attenuation. To keep some temp control, I keep it in a tub of water and add ice once in a while (or heat it in the winter). It doesn't take much attention to keep the temp reasonable during this time.

Good suggestion and I did consider that but when I realized that both yeast specified the same temperature I decided to do it this way. Especially since the temperature in my garage still gets into the 90's and my setup allows me not to move or disturb the buckets in the fridge until time to transfer to the bottling bucket in most cases. The only time that either bucket was outside it's specified range was when I first put the Irish Red in the fridge it was it was at 22.7 C (72.86 F) and within 30 minutes it was down to 21 C (69.8 F) which is the max specified fermentation temp of the Nottingham ale yeast. The stout never got below 15.8 C and the minimum on the SO-4 is 15 C according to the package it came in.

I'm sure the time I had the problem things were much different as I never monitored the temp of the stout once the brown ale was in the fridge. So while the fridge cooled the brown ale from pitching temp to 17.5 C there is no telling how cold the stout which was already at the set temp dropped to.
The temp probe was held to the side of the brown ale bucket with a bungee cord and foil bubble insulation.

I brew beer in the same garage where I do my woodworking, welding, plasma cutting and leather work. All of these activities lead to lots of air borne debris which is one reason I have come up with a system that allows me to keep the fridge door closed except for loading/unloading and transferring. I never even have to remove a bucket lid until after all the beer has been transferred to the bottling bucket. So far of about a dozen batches all have been quiet good, the only mark against them being the last couple of 6 packs of that one stout was way over carbonated. I am retired so my brew days can be as long as they need to be. I usually start by cleaning the shop and setting up the "brewery" the day before. I use a heat stick on a timer to preheat the water in my kettle before I get out to the garage the next morning. So if there are steeping grains I can draw off some of the preheated water then remove the heat stick and fire up the burner to get to a boil. If not, it's the same procedure only no drawing of hot water. I am usually done including clean up by lunch time and can take my afternoon nap in peace.

 

[chickypad]

It's certainly up to you but I don't see how your plan is going to work. The fridge turns on because the red is getting too hot, how do you expect to keep the temp down if you keep shutting it off? Also just keeping the temp in the specified range doesn't mean it's the best for the fermentation. A drop from 21 to 15.8 may be completely within S04's stated range, but doing that to the yeast later in fermentation is asking for it to drop out early - as it seems you have already experienced once. The way this works best is if the second beer requires a higher temp. I've done this brewing an American ale followed by a Belgian, at one point there was about an 8 degree difference in temp between the two.

 

[user 163849]

It's certainly up to you but I don't see how your plan is going to work. The fridge turns on because the red is getting too hot, how do you expect to keep the temp down if you keep shutting it off? Also just keeping the temp in the specified range doesn't mean it's the best for the fermentation. A drop from 21 to 15.8 may be completely within S04's stated range, but doing that to the yeast later in fermentation is asking for it to drop out early - as it seems you have already experienced once. The way this works best is if the second beer requires a higher temp. I've done this brewing an American ale followed by a Belgian, at one point there was about an 8 degree difference in temp between the two.

I do not doubt what you are telling me, I will be keeping an eye on it. Logistically the obvious option in my case is to brew one batch at a time in the future if this proves not to work. I do not have two batches going at the same time often enough to accommodate what seems to need to be done. My whole setup is wrong for using a swamp cooler which I have no room for and the dog would drink all the water out of it anyway, after licking the "bubbler". LOL

I'll just have to continue to monitor the progress out there and if the stout gets too cool I may have to figure something out. Hell, I have two temp controllers and a heating pad......??????

What if I wrap the stout in the heating pad and insulation and leave in the fridge on it's own temp controller? I know the fridge would probably have to run more often to keep the Irish Red cool but with a couple of wraps of the foil bubbles around the stout it might not be too much of a problem. If I end up doing this, what temp would you suggest for the stout?

I would only do this to save this one batch. The only reason to go to all that trouble is lack of an alternative location to ferment the stout.

 

[chickypad]

What if I wrap the stout in the heating pad and insulation and leave in the fridge on it's own temp controller? I know the fridge would probably have to run more often to keep the Irish Red cool but with a couple of wraps of the foil bubbles around the stout it might not be too much of a problem. If I end up doing this, what temp would you suggest for the stout?

That might work actually. I like to ferment on the lower end of the yeast's range during the active phase, then raise it up about 4-5 degrees to the higher end. So if fermenting an ale say at 63 I might raise it up to 68 to finish. Or just let it free rise if I need the ferment chamber for something else, and not worry about it as long as it's not scorching hot. Personally I'd rather let it get a little on the warm side rather than risk chilling it before final gravity is reached.

 

[user 163849]

Well, I am trying it. Two wraps of foil bubble insulation, Had to use an old Styrofoam ice chest lid for a top because I ran out of insulation. I insulated it first while my wife looked for an old heating pad with mechanical switches so it could be controlled externally.

So far the insulated one is staying colder than the other one, even with the heating pad working. And yes I did check to make sure the right probe was on the right fermenter. I guess it is probably a sign that the insulation is working by holding in the cold so once the heating pad has had time to do some good the results might be more logical but right now I keep going back to check that I did not reverse the probes. LOL

And the Irish Red has still shown no evidence of fermentation. I know it is too soon to worry but this is the first beer that has kept me waiting this long, so that is worrisome too. Thinking I should order another packet of Nottingham just in case I need to re pitch. I did oxygenate with an oxygen stone and I re hydrated the yeast.

 

[user 163849]

It is beginning to look like this just might work. I think it will stabilize more by morning but this is the most promising reading I have gotten since I started this experiment. Before insulating and applying a heating pad to the stout the temperature of both vessels had equalised.

 

[slym2none]

BOMB!!!

*ducks & covers*

 

[user 163849]

Thanks for all the encouragement for me to figure out a way to warm the stout while keeping the Irish Red cool. It is probably obvious that the idea to use a heating pad, insulation, and the other stc-1000 occurred to me while I was in the middle of posting why I could not simply remove the stout from the fridge.

Well as crazy as the idea may sound, this morning when I walked out to the garage to check on things I found both fermentation buckets were on the temp which I had them set for. So now the stout is at the upper end of it's specified range and the Red is at mid range.

I am still a bit worried that the Red does not seem to be active yet.

 

[user 163849]

The Irish Red finally started after over 56 hours of delay.

Today it is pulsing right along at about 110 bubbles a minute and there is plenty of sign that there has been krausen in the blow off tube.

So all is well, I hope.