87% attenuation.

[Chemcorp158]

Bottled an imperial saison last night and I had what I never thought possible, 87% attenuation. OG 1.091. FG 1.011. I didn't think I would be anywhere close to that as I definitely under pitched with no starter and only one Wyeast 3711 French Saison. It spent 41 days in the fermenter at around 74 degrees. The initial taste was exactly what I wanted, lots of fruity and spicy yeast goodness. I expected at best to have a FG of 1.020 so I was surprised. So, my question is, was this a fluke or a product of the 41 day fermentation?

 

[ncbrewer]

IMO, leaving it in the fermenter for a long time won't give you a noticeably lower FG. At least I hope that's the case, because after bottling, the same yeast is still in suspension. Continuing to eat sugars would result in bottle bombs. My guess is that yeast just isn't completely predictable. I'm interested in hearing other opinions.

 

[SanPancho]

3711 is known for chugging along in primary, then stalling, then starting up again. and month and a week or two sounds about right.

and saison yeast in general is known as high attenuating. not that surprising in the grand scheme of things. but its a good level of attenuation, even for saison.

 

[Calder]

3711 is known for chugging along in primary, then stalling, then starting up again.

I have never heard that about 3711. Some Belgians will stall if you don't get the temp up, but 3711 doesn't have that problem. There is a whole thread on the yeast with about 1000 comments, and I bet there is not a single one that says it stalled.


I've used 3711 a number of times. It is not my favorite Saison yeast, but it sure does attenuate well. I've had 1.060+ wort ferment down to 1.000/1.002. Yes, I've gotten 100% apparent attenuation from that yeast.

I don't think it is the time you left it. I suspect you weFG after a week.

 

[chickypad]

My experience is the same as Calder's, and it doesn't take long to get those attenuations. 3711 is a beast for sure and I've never seen it stall.

 

[passedpawn]

3724 is the one that stalls. Great saison: pitch 3724, after a week or two add 3711. Ferment warm.

3711 is dynomite for a belgian strong golden ale (Duvel). Pilsner malt, sugar, and 3711. Then time for fusels to subside.

Check this: Wyeast 3711 French Saison

 

[SanPancho]

There is a whole thread on the yeast with about 1000 comments, and I bet there is not a single one that says it stalled.

Hey, all.

I've been lurking here for a while now, but this is my first actual post. So, cheers, everybody!

My problem is this: I have a partial mash Saison fermenting right now, with an OG of 1.056, and it's not budging (almost a week now) from the SG of 1.025.

Here's the skinny: it was my first partial mash; I mashed a pound of Vienna, half a pound of Belgian Biscuit, and a quarter pound of flaked wheat for one hour probably a little too high (ca. 158*). Then I did an hour boil, adding two pounds of Munton's Wheat DME at the beginning and four pounds of Breiss Pilsner DME at 15 minutes (then waited for another hot break). There was a bit of a boil-over at this point.

Afterwards I chilled it down to about 70* and pitched the 3711 straight from the smack pack (after it had been out for about 4 hours). I got vigorous fermentation and about two inches of kraeusen by the following morning, steady fermentation for the following four or five days, and then it petered out. This was all simply at room temperature, about 68*. When I checked the SG a few days later (after about a week total had passed), it was at 1.025. It hasn't moved since. I took it up to my room to warm it up - to about 75* - and nothing; I upset the yeast - nothing.

No matter how I spin it, I can't figure out why the fermentation's stuck. Any suggestions?

Many thanks!

so...........?

 

[passedpawn]

so...........?

I think the implication here is that the problem is not the yeast, but the brewer's mash temps.

I've used 3711 several times and it was an unstoppable fermentation machine. Finished very low every time.

 

[JordanKnudson]

I have to second passedpawn and Calder here. 3711 is specifically prized for being reliable and plowing through the sugars for high attenuation. 3724/wlp565 (the DuPont strain) is the one that has the well-known reputation for stalling out partway through, then kicking in again a few weeks later.

That said, anyone can stall out any strain if they mess up the right elements. In the one example cited above, it could have been mash temp, dextrines/unfermentables in the extract, or it could have easily been that his yeast were not healthy enough to finish (he pitched a single smack pack, no starter...who knows how old, or what the real cell count was).

 

[Mainer]

3711 is a ravenous animal. It will eat everything. I brewed a pale saison with it that went all the way down to 0.999. You're lucky if it doesn't chew right through your fermenter wall.

 

[SanPancho]

and yet, it has stalled for folks.

to be clear, i may have mixed up the two strains. i typically use whitelabs and go by the names, not the numbers. but i know for a fact that 3711 stalls. it happened to me, and had no clear discerneable reason i could point towards to explain. the only thing i was able to search out in explanation was some rumors/ideas that saison yeast in general likes being in open fermentations. ditch the airlock, cover with cloth or something to keep the bugs out, and no more stalls. have asked a few pros, but none of them regularly make saisons and couldnt comment one way or the other.

but yes, 3711 will stall. ravenous animal or not.

 

[passedpawn]

to be clear, i may have mixed up the two strains.

Not clear. You might have mixed up 3711 and 3724?

 

[Mainer]

and yet, it has stalled for folks.

to be clear, i may have mixed up the two strains. i typically use whitelabs and go by the names, not the numbers. but i know for a fact that 3711 stalls. it happened to me, and had no clear discerneable reason i could point towards to explain. the only thing i was able to search out in explanation was some rumors/ideas that saison yeast in general likes being in open fermentations. ditch the airlock, cover with cloth or something to keep the bugs out, and no more stalls. have asked a few pros, but none of them regularly make saisons and couldnt comment one way or the other.

but yes, 3711 will stall. ravenous animal or not.

I'm not saying 3711 never stalls. Yeast is a living thing. Every colony has its own... quirks.
I'm just saying it's not the one with the reputation for doing so commonly.

 

[Chemcorp158]

Well all in all I guess I am glad my LHBS was out of 3724 and I tried 3711.

 

[SanPancho]

Not clear. You might have mixed up 3711 and 3724?

yeah, i meant i may have been referring to the belgian saison. which is 3724 i guess. i go by names, not numbers, hence the confusion. and typically white labs, not wyeast.

but i also know that french 3711 will stall. its happened to me. in any case, the statement was made by Calder that 3711 never stalls, 1000s of postings about it and never will there be one saying it stalls. disproving the statement took about 10 seconds.

and yes, like Mainer says, any yeast can stall depending what sort of condition it was in before pitching, sugar type/ratios, pH, DO, etc.

considering everyone here seems to be pretty familiar with saison yeast, does anyone have anything to contribute about the idea that open fermenting helps prevent the stall?

 

[passedpawn]

I doubt open fermenting helps (except that you will introduce some helpers from the walls etc). OTOH, if I was yeast I'd love an open fermentor to get access to tons of O2. Anthropomorphising here, can't help it, human thing.

 

[Mainer]

I doubt open fermenting helps (except that you will introduce some helpers from the walls etc). OTOH, if I was yeast I'd love an open fermentor to get access to tons of O2. Anthropomorphising here, can't help it, human thing.

It's the reproduction phase where yeast uses the most oxygen, right? So especially in a case where you have a high-gravity wort, a lower-than-ideal fermentation temp, didn't use a starter, or didn't use equipment to oxygenate your wort, then yeah, I can see how open fermentation would help build up a hardy yeast colony.
Of course, you increase your infection risk, and you'd want to seal it up once you get to high krausen in order to avoid oxidizing the beer, but... under the right circumstances and if watched carefully, I can see it having its advantages.