8 Wine Kit Questions for Experts

[emjay]

I got this reply from a guy regarding one of 4 kits I have (Cellar Classic Pinot Noir), after starting it on Thursday (along with a Cellar Classic Gewürztraminer):

I am 99% sure we told you to throw any oak powder in the fvcking garbage. Oh, and get some malo-lactic cultures or GTFO!

Now, rudeness and crudeness aside, I know he actually knows quite a bit about making wine, so I consider the opinion reliable.

Thing is, he and a few others (including Yoop!) drilled it into my head to follow the directions for wine kits to a "T". Now that it's apparently not so cut-and-dry, I have a few more questions, but I don't think I'm going to see them answered by said guy any time soon. So I have a bunch of questions for people that really know their stuff.

Of course, there are a bunch here, so if you can even answer only one or two questions, it would really help and be greatly appreciated. I'm particularly interested in the answers to A/B, and H.

A) Is the powder only bad to use because it can't be removed, making the resulting wine possibly over-oaked?

B) If that's the case, would it help to just rack it off a bit earlier than the 2 weeks these two particular kits indicate to keep them in primary for?

C) The next two wines (En Primeur Amarone and Cellar Classic Winery Series Old Vine Zinfandel) include grape skins, and also have oak CHIPS that are meant to be put into a hop bag... is that okay (given that the powder in the other kit was recommended against), or should I be doing something else?

D) Can you give me a link to malo-lactic culture that you use? NONE of my kits include it, so is it really that beneficial to these 4 styles? If so, when and how do I even use it? I'm unfamiliar with this whole aspect of winemaking. Any good references out there about this process and the reason for it?

E) All the kits include a small packet of sulfite to stabilize after primary fermentation, but all of their instructions say that if I'm going to age for more than 6 months, they recommend using a bit more than the single packages they provide. Should I buy extra sulfite in order to follow this recommendation?

F) ONLY the amarone comes with metatartaric acid to prevent wine diamonds. Should I get some for every batch, regardless of style?

G) None of the kits came with wine yeast nutrient nor energizer, and they don't even mention them either. As a brewer it just feels so wrong! Should I be using some anyways, or it truly unnecessary (perhaps even added to the grape must beforehand)?

H) Any idea why all the instructions *specifically* say NOT to stir after sprinkling the yeast on top, especially when they recommend stirring vigorously at other points and even to go crazy with a drill-powered wine whip?! There must be a reason they don't want people to stir at that point.

Thanks to everyone that took the time to read this. Hopefully I'll eventually get answers for each question, but I'll be happy if I only even just get answers for a few!

 

[Yooper]

Hmmm, well.

I have no idea how to answer- as I don't do MLF on ANY kit wines (they don't need it and they aren't that high in malic acid anyway to be effective), I do use the oak that comes with the kit, etc.

I do use extra sulfite when I bottle- either 1 crushed tablet per gallon, or 1/4 teaspoon of the straight powder, dissolved in a little hot water and then put into the bottling bucket.

As far as stirring in the yeast, it has to do with rehydrating of the yeast cells. Stirring it it means it could rupture more yeast cells due to the osmotic pressure, while gently rehydrating means more yeast viability.

I wouldn't buy more metatartaric- since the acids are balanced in the kit already (the reason I wouldn't even consider MLF), it's not needed. I never get wine diamonds from kit wines, not even those that have been aging 5+ years in the cellar. I always get them from non-kit wines.

I never use yeast energizer or nutrient for kits wines.

So, either I'm a real dummy because I don't throw away the oak (although I do prefer oak spirals) and make the kit properly without attempting MLF on it or adding other stuff- or the kits really ARE fine the way they are and make a great product without futzing much with it.

 

[emjay]

Hmmm, well.

I have no idea how to answer- as I don't do MLF on ANY kit wines (they don't need it and they aren't that high in malic acid anyway to be effective), I do use the oak that comes with the kit, etc.

I do use extra sulfite when I bottle- either 1 crushed tablet per gallon, or 1/4 teaspoon of the straight powder, dissolved in a little hot water and then put into the bottling bucket.

As far as stirring in the yeast, it has to do with rehydrating of the yeast cells. Stirring it it means it could rupture more yeast cells due to the osmotic pressure, while gently rehydrating means more yeast viability.

I wouldn't buy more metatartaric- since the acids are balanced in the kit already (the reason I wouldn't even consider MLF), it's not needed. I never get wine diamonds from kit wines, not even those that have been aging 5+ years in the cellar. I always get them from non-kit wines.

I never use yeast energizer or nutrient for kits wines.

So, either I'm a real dummy because I don't throw away the oak (although I do prefer oak spirals) and make the kit properly without attempting MLF on it or adding other stuff- or the kits really ARE fine the way they are and make a great product without futzing much with it.

Excellent, thanks for taking the time to answer my little quiz. A++!

 

[DoctorCAD]

Whoever it was that answered you is an idiot.

Oak powder is fine. Are there better ways to oak? Of course, but the powder will work just fine.

MLF on a kit? Total idiot. Sorbate and MLF do not mix. His wines must stink from 50 yards away.

If I was you, I would "gtfo" of that message board...quick.

 

[Jeff180]

My stab at these:

A) Oak powder is still oak - it's basically leftovers from making the "fancy" types of oak. People don't like it because it doesn't look neat like those perfect little cubes, so they assume it's crummy. Only issue is there's no way to remove the powder once you have enough oak. So it needs to be precisely measured.

B) "would it help to just rack it off a bit earlier" - probably not. The powder gives up its oak very quick. Racking early would work with cubes, since they add oak more slowly. I've never had a kit I thought was over-oaked though. If anything, there's room for more.

C) Different kits have different instructions. Best to follow unless you have a reason not to.

D) No MLF for wine kits. If you ever use grapes you can get MLB cultures at a home brew shop. Search for WLP675. It's added after the primary - it's a true secondary fermentation.

E) Adding more sulfite is the safe route. It'll increase your odds of success.

F) Personally I don't mind wine diamonds. Even if they make it to your glass they still sit on the bottom. Yooper said she doesn't get them but I'm almost positive that's what I'm seeing. They're not in the bottle initially but show up after a year or two of cellaring.

G) yeast nutrient + energizer - I believe these are already packaged in the juice when needed.

H) stirring - yeast needs oxygen to start, so you leave it on top. You stir later to knock out carbon dioxide. This is well after the yeast has gone to sleep. But do make sure you stir before adding yeast - that'll help up the oxygen levels in the juice.

 

[ZeroLife]

Forgive my ignence, but what are wine diamonds and what is the cause??? A mineral concentration???

 

[Yooper]

Forgive my ignence, but what are wine diamonds and what is the cause??? A mineral concentration???

Wine diamonds are composed of tartaric acid.