8 batches and I still can't shake this off flavor...

[Brew-Happy]

-TH-,

Would you be willing to post your water profile contents and concentrations? Maybe something will stand out to some other brewers here. It might be a high level of compound that is causing your issue, not chlor- based compounds.

Just a thought

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

You might also want to leave it in the primary longer. Could be some byproducts the yeast need to remove.

That water report does not state the Ca, Mg, Sulfate, bicarbonate, Ph, etc. Ask for a detailed water analysis. This report you posted lists "regulated elements" only.

You said the bottled water leaves you with the same odd taste?

It's also possible the fluoride is causing mutations with your yeast leading to off flavors. Though, again you said you also get this taste with bottled water.

How long are you aging your beer in the bottles and does the taste diminish on beer that has aged longer?

You don't have to boil the corn sugar for 20 minutes. Really, you can just boil some water and then take it off the heat and add the sugar and stir.

 

[IrregularPulse]

You don't have to boil the corn sugar for 20 minutes. Really, you can just boil some water and then take it off the heat and add the sugar and stir.

How likely is it that this could be his problem? I too always brought my sugar water to a vigorous boil for 15-20 minutes to sanitize the sugar and only noticed the off flavor in bottling. Never in Kegging.

 

[wizardofza]

Are you guys talking about the "extract twang" that many people complain about with extract beers?

I know when I started a few years ago, I started with extract kits and each of the four I brewed all had that twang to them. It usually appeared as an aftertaste (or possibly when I burped).

I can't really explain it any better other that "twang" since it's been a few years and it completely disappeared when I went all-grain.

 

[RedIrocZ-28]

-TH-, I'm at westshore mall, want to drop off a few to me and I'll try them tonight, see if I can give you my uneducated opinion?

 

[LandofOZ]

I have this question. Do you boil your priming suger in the water or do you ad the priming suger to the water after you boil it. As a newbie i was wondering if this makes any difference.

 

[BrewDey]

I had a similar experience with what I assumed was chlorophenols from tap water...but then I still got it from time to time after I filtered my water and/or did full boils. It wasn't until I changed my cooling procedure that I seemed to have eradicated the problem. How are you chilling? I discovered that even with foil over the wort-it wasn't a good idea to let it chill in my utility tub. I'm pretty sure the problem was a slight infection or wild yeast that were getting in there. Now I use an IC and do it outside, then pitch as ASAP.

 

[-TH-]

-TH-, I'm at westshore mall, want to drop off a few to me and I'll try them tonight, see if I can give you my uneducated opinion?

I'd be glad to, but I can't get them there tonight because even though I drive right by there on my way home I'd have to pick them up from home and bring them back which I don't have time for. Let me know the next time you are going to be there and I will take some with me to work so I can drop them off.

 

[-TH-]

I have this question. Do you boil your priming suger in the water or do you ad the priming suger to the water after you boil it. As a newbie i was wondering if this makes any difference.

I've been boiling the water with the sugar in it but I am realizing now that many do not. My priming mixture has a very slight caramel color to it when I am finished. Is that normal?

 

[-TH-]

I had a similar experience with what I assumed was chlorophenols from tap water...but then I still got it from time to time after I filtered my water and/or did full boils. It wasn't until I changed my cooling procedure that I seemed to have eradicated the problem. How are you chilling? I discovered that even with foil over the wort-it wasn't a good idea to let it chill in my utility tub. I'm pretty sure the problem was a slight infection or wild yeast that were getting in there. Now I use an IC and do it outside, then pitch as ASAP.

I've used an ice bath in the kitchen sink, outdoors, and the basement utility sink. Usually covered. The last two batches I used an IC chiller - took less than 10 minutes.

 

[-TH-]

Are you guys talking about the "extract twang" that many people complain about with extract beers?

I know when I started a few years ago, I started with extract kits and each of the four I brewed all had that twang to them. It usually appeared as an aftertaste (or possibly when I burped).

I can't really explain it any better other that "twang" since it's been a few years and it completely disappeared when I went all-grain.

For all I know it could be. But if its not, then obviously I want to fix it before going AG. That said, if I can't fix it on my current experimental batch, I think I might go AG next (once I calm down from my fit of rage).

 

[Brew-Happy]

-TH-

I know you mentioned using bottled water on your last batch, but I did not notice any mention of the source. Is this a national brand of bottled water or is one of those fill-yourself station?

If it is the latter, you are just using the same municipal water that you use at home, only it is filtered more.

Just curious. I like the dedication you are putting into this. Good luck

 

[RedIrocZ-28]

I've been boiling the water with the sugar in it but I am realizing now that many do not. My priming mixture has a very slight caramel color to it when I am finished. Is that normal?

Sort of but should be avoided if you can.

I will be at westshore next week again, not sure what days but most likely it will be tuesday and thursday. If I can remember I will let you know.

 

[-TH-]

-TH-

I know you mentioned using bottled water on your last batch, but I did not notice any mention of the source. Is this a national brand of bottled water or is one of those fill-yourself station?

If it is the latter, you are just using the same municipal water that you use at home, only it is filtered more.

Just curious. I like the dedication you are putting into this. Good luck

Hmmm good question. I bought it in gallon jugs but I didn't check where the water came from. I have bought two different kinds from two different grocery stores.

 

[pompeiisneaks]

I've seen it discussed, yes the bottling sugar should be clear... if its brown that means you've altered it some, carmelized it, and that could be the problem. As far as I've ever done and heard, you just need to get the water to a boil to dissolve the sugar well in a small amt of water. I always just get water to a rolling boil and add the corn sugar and then let it cool to room temps before adding it to my bottling bucket, then I transfer the wort from the fermentation vessel and the transfer mixes the sugar in well. Then I bottle. This could be causing the issue, its worth a test as well.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Taking the beer off the yeast to soon can also lead to add flavors as the yeast need time do some "clean up" after fermentation.

Acetdelhyde for one, though this tends to have an green apple taste/smell. Recently read it can allow have a latex paint smell.

 

[Memorex88]

So what was the result of the experiment?

 

[shizzle]

im guessing the carmelized corn sugar

 

[Saccharomyces]

Old thread but FWIW I found the hard way bottled/RO water can still have chloramine at low levels leading to chlorophenols so it's best to treat with Campden tablets 1/2 tablet to 10 gallons, stir it up and let it sit 1/2 hour before brewing with it.

 

[shizzle]

Not sure how valid this is, but...

Removing Chloramines from Water

And, contrary to another widely promoted myth, reverse osmosis units do remove chloramine. In fact, they do it well, because any good RO unit contains a couple of carbon filters and the water gets an extra slow pass through the first one

This means that carbon filtration is the best removal method, and, contrary to urban legends, filter carbon does indeed remove chloramine. The problem is that it takes more carbon and more contact time to do the job.

 

[-TH-]

The saga continues here...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/ch...is-my-moby-dick-my-caddy-shack-gopher-116482/

Batch #9 had the chlorophenols as well. It didn't matter how I primed.

Batch #10 was brewed 10 days ago. This time I used campden for the first time - for everything including sanitizer water. I also threw a little 5.2 buffer in the steeping water just for kicks. Also a new brew pot, but that was just coincidental. Two more weeks atleast in primary then I'll bottle and wait a couple more. That's when I'll know for sure.

Batch #11 will most likely be AG regardless of the results. I just finished my DIY grain mill tonight. Look for the thread.

 

[Ysgard]

I noticed in your chart that your Bleach sanitation and your bottling bucket use overlapped. Have you switched bottling buckets? If you had bleach in the bottling bucket, it could be impregnated with the bleach still.

Also, as a curiosity, is Broccoli bitter to you? (wondering if you're on the sensitive end of tasters/supertaster).

 

[-TH-]

I noticed in your chart that your Bleach sanitation and your bottling bucket use overlapped. Have you switched bottling buckets? If you had bleach in the bottling bucket, it could be impregnated with the bleach still.

Also, as a curiosity, is Broccoli bitter to you? (wondering if you're on the sensitive end of tasters/supertaster).

The first bottling bucket was actually a mr beer keg. The bottling bucket from batch 3 on was part of my beer making kit that came with no-rinse sanitizer and I never used bleach on it.

I don't think brocolli is bitter. I have a hard time detecting bitterness actually. My wife notices the off flavor more than I do, I tend to have to smell it while drinking or burping to know its there (if that makes sense). One thing I can say for sure is that I've tasted it in all my beers, but I have never tasted it in any commercial beers (and I've tried alot).

 

[anemic]

TH,

Did you try the liquid yeast+starter?

Did you try the 6 week method: approximately 2 weeks each in primary, secondary & bottle condition?

I probably tasted phenolics this week when a brew-buddy brought some of his over. I thought it defied description; perhaps like drinking a tire, time probably won't heal his problem. He thought his yeast was too old to work correctly. It was last summers' recycled Oberon yeast. He's told me he's never done a starter. He just pitches directly regardless of age. (yikes & yuck) His beers are hit & miss between brilliant & undrinkable.

anemic

PS - I believe if he had simply given his yeast the nose test ahead of time he may have had less, possibly zero, of a problem in that case. Anyway, super yucky.

 

[RedIrocZ-28]

Todd, I still have 2 of the 3 beers you dropped off to me in the fridge conditioning. I drank one within 3 days and I got this weird off taste, I likened it to band-aid. I figured I would wait for 2 weeks for the others. And its now been 2 weeks. I'll crack each of them open tonight most likely and see if 2 weeks in the cold did anything.

I'll let you know!

 

[-TH-]

TH,

Did you try the liquid yeast+starter?

Did you try the 6 week method: approximately 2 weeks each in primary, secondary & bottle condition?

I probably tasted phenolics this week when a brew-buddy brought some of his over. I thought it defied description; perhaps like drinking a tire, time probably won't heal his problem. He thought his yeast was too old to work correctly. It was last summers' recycled Oberon yeast. He's told me he's never done a starter. He just pitches directly regardless of age. (yikes & yuck) His beers are hit & miss between brilliant & undrinkable.

anemic

PS - I believe if he had simply given his yeast the nose test ahead of time he may have had less, possibly zero, of a problem in that case. Anyway, super yucky.

I've used dry yeast all but 1 time. When I used liquid, I pitched about 1/2 vial in a 3/4 gallon sample batch. It tasted almost identical to the US-05 samples.

 

[-TH-]

Todd, I still have 2 of the 3 beers you dropped off to me in the fridge conditioning. I drank one within 3 days and I got this weird off taste, I likened it to band-aid. I figured I would wait for 2 weeks for the others. And its now been 2 weeks. I'll crack each of them open tonight most likely and see if 2 weeks in the cold did anything.

I'll let you know!

OK thanks!

 

[tspilker]

What about your stirring impliment? It could be melting on the bottom of the brew pot

 

[PintOfBitter]

I sypathize - for an entire year, all my batches had that exact flavor. I changed every single variable - completely new fermentation vessels, hoses, store water vs. home water, dry vs. liquid yeast, late additions, etc. etc. etc. The common factor was that they all were extract batches, from only two different sources, who may be using the same brand of extract anyway.

My first all grain batch had NONE of the flavor, and it's been gone since! I have since decided it was from the extract I had been using. The content of the extract producer's water combines with the content of yours to possibly drastically increase the amount of dissolved solids. You're using their concentrated water along with yours. Just a hypothesis.

FWIW, all my friends extract beers have had the same funk.

 

[WorryWort]

First off, I've never had that flavour (that's right flavour with a 'u' - i'm Canadian).

I noticed "Aluminum Turkey Fryer". Was it ever actually used as a turkey fryer? Because if so there could be carbons in that thing, especially because it's aluminum, that you might never get rid of - those could cause any number of off flavours. I know the first two batches were different, but I'd discount the Mr. Beer kit experiences.

I'm also looking at the yeast as a source. Autolysis can cause burnt rubber flavours and sulferyness (made that word up). I do not know what in your process could cause autolysis - bad yeast? too much yeast? environmental factors such as wild yeast?

Personal, I am sensitive to yeast character. Dry yeast and me don't get a long well. But they work for many.

I use Iodopher too, just check the concentration. Maybe you're using too much and tasting that.

I can't figure this is bacterial, because it would be difficult for spontaneous and uncontrolled bacteria to provide such consistent results.

Good luck!