75%Brett/25%Sacc

[tagz]

Anyone done anything like this? How would it affect fermentation time and flavor?

 

[Coff]

For primary i assume? Whats your goal with the blend?

 

[Weezy]

As I understand it, the sacc will go to work much, much faster than the Brett. The sac will essentially ferment he wort as in any normal ale while the Brett just gets warmed up to finally eat what's left by the sac... not a whole lot different than separate fermentations (sacc primary, Brett secondary). In that light, I'm not certain that looking at it like 25%sacc and 75% Brett is the best way to look at it. I'm assuming you're thinking in terms of flavor contribution from each and hoping using x% of each will lead to that? I don't believe that's accurate.

Now we all know there are a lot of ways to do wild ales, but under pitching sacc can still lead to stressed yeast off flavors that the Brett may not clean up later.

 

[Beernik]

I'm assuming you mean a 3:1 pitch rate in the primary of Brett:Sacc yeast.

I really don't know what you would get, but I don't think it would have a lot of funk if that's what you are looking for.

The thing to remember about Brett is that it only produces funk when it's stressed by not having a lot of sugar to eat. When it's not stressed, you just get fruity "infection" flavors.

 

[40watt]

It's not stress on Brett that creates the funk.
Rather the process of Brett converting fermentation byproducts from the primary Sacc yeast.
Also Sacc creates glucanoids that adds to mouthfeel in a way that Brett cannot.
All you do by saving more sugar for the Brett is to lengthen the time it will take to ferment out. Also making bottling a bit more challenging.

 

[40watt]

In the end the way to find the blend you like is just to experiment and tweak it in one direction or the other.

Or just add brett when the Sacc is 60-80% done with fermentation.
Traditional brett character comes from using it as a secondary strain.
100% brett beers can be interesting, but unless you want a thin uninteresting beer, you need to take certain steps in building your recipe.

 

[tagz]

Yeah, I was just curious. I guess I'm wondering:

1. Due to the large pitch, would the Brett produce some of the fruity 100% brett character?
2. Would the large pitch of Brett shorten the period it would take to convert the sacc bi-products to create funk?
3. Would either be stressed, since together you would be pitching enough yeast?

Edit: I don't have plans to try this out any time soon; just hoping to learn more about the dynamics of a mixed ferment.

 

[metic]

Here's one data point: I brewed a 3 gallon Orval clone, and pitched a full pack of Wyeast Brett Brux very early in fermentation. The beer ended up being very funky---too funky for my tastes, in fact. I assume this is because the brett went to work on sugars, but also byproducts from sacch that might usually be cleaned up by sacch itself before brett is pitched in secondary.

 

[Beernik]

1. I think it would be more like a 100% Brett beer.
2. No, I doubt you would get funk faster. I think you'd get less funk.
3. I don't think either would be stressed.

I think you'd want to pitch the Sacc, wait 3 - 7 days, and then pitch the Brett.

 

[tagz]

Here's one data point: I brewed a 3 gallon Orval clone, and pitched a full pack of Wyeast Brett Brux very early in fermentation. The beer ended up being very funky---too funky for my tastes, in fact. I assume this is because the brett went to work on sugars, but also byproducts from sacch that might usually be cleaned up by sacch itself before brett is pitched in secondary.

Interesting. Did you do tasting throughout? How did the profile change over time?

 

[metic]

Interesting. Did you do tasting throughout? How did the profile change over time?

It got funky very quickly, and stayed that way. I was hoping it would mellow over time, but it didn't really. I think I have a bottle left somewhere actually. See also this post by Oldsock.

 

[dinnerstick]

i have been trying few mixed fermentations for a saison. i've never quite mastered the dupont yeast, at low temps it packs up early and at high temps it tastes awful in my experience, so i have been pitching dupont + brett strains and fermenting at cooler temps (tried dupont + brett brux at high temps and it was like sniffing glue; funky headache), so some of the saison character is there but the bretts take over and clean up. i don't do cell counts so i don't know the exact ratios but the best result so far, for a nice dry mellow farmhouse base beer that took various dry hops nicely, was a normal pitch of saison and smaller equal pitches of the three brett strains i keep in my freezer library; wlp brux, lambicus and trois strains, fermented in the 22-25 degree range. there's no method to my choice of strains, i just chuck 'em all in together with the sacc.