5 or 10 gallon?

[VulgarCelt]

I am in the planning phase for a new eHerms system build in my basement. I have been an AG brewer for several years using propane outside.

My question is should I take this chance to build out a 10 gallon system or build the eHerms at 5 gallons? I have several existing pots I could use for for a 5 gallon build and combined with my 10 gallon mash tun (cooler), I don't think I would need to purchase too much in the way of vessels.

The downside to moving to a 10 gallon system would be acquiring and building out the new brewing vessels (likely keggles). This would probably delay my build for at least 6 months if not more. Is it worth the wait for any reason?

I am essentially looking at the Electric Brewery system as a model at the moment so I will be working toward a 30 amp system with 5500w elements.

Thoughts? Is a 5 gallon eHerms viable?

 

[TungstenBeer]

It's definitely viable. If the larger vessels are the ONLY thing that would be keeping you from upgrading, you could always build your system right now using your existing vessels, and then you have a fairly easy upgrade later if you want to move up to 10 gallon batches. If you go that route, just make sure everything you purchase would be portable to a larger system as well (shouldn't be too difficult, other than perhaps the sizing of the HERMS coil itself).

 

[VulgarCelt]

It's definitely viable. If the larger vessels are the ONLY thing that would be keeping you from upgrading, you could always build your system right now using your existing vessels, and then you have a fairly easy upgrade later if you want to move up to 10 gallon batches. If you go that route, just make sure everything you purchase would be portable to a larger system as well (shouldn't be too difficult, other than perhaps the sizing of the HERMS coil itself).

Do you think there is a happy medium on the herms coil? I'm brewing in 8-10 gal SS kettles now and will move to 15 gal keggles.

50' SS coil overkill? Will it even fit in the smaller pot? 30' a better middle ground?

I will ask the copper vs. SS on another thread, lol...

 

[schematix]

Not to derail your original topic, but SS vs copper coil has been covered quite a bit in previous threads. I'll summarize: it doesn't matter. They have similar costs (stainless is more but not that much more), similar corrosion resistance (stainless is better but copper is excellent), conductivity doesn't matter that much if you whirlpool (copper is drastically better but isn't the limiting factor) and ease of use copper is a little easier to bend, but in either case you'd be best served getting a pipe bender (or buy pre-coiled), so that's net 0.

I went for 10G batches on my setup right from the beginning because it takes about the same amount of time to do 5G vs 10G, and my time is limited. However, you can do certain things in a 5G batch that you can't in a 10G, that really, really increase the cost. For example, you can dump a 5G kettle into a fermenter. You can't lift a 10G kettle. You probably need a pump. And a pump needs fittings, valves, hoses, etc. Think about your process and where you want to go so you're not rebuying everything in a year. Also consider if you want 10G of every beer you make. I'd love to make a stout, but never will because i don't want 10G of stout.

 

[JoshuaW]

I dont anticipate doing 10 gallon batches very often, so I went middle ground. I stayed with 10 gallon kettles, but upgraded my BK to 15 gallons to handle a larger boil. I could do smaller 10 gallon beers on the equipment and virtually any size 5 gallon beer. I was very mindful of how much it might cost to upgrade if I want to do 10 gallon large beers later, and it wouldnt be much (cost of kettles, basically).

I would stick with what you have for now. Get used to your new system, go to 10 gallons later.

 

[jiMithing83]

I'm going to be starting the planning phase soon myself. When I considered this question, I came to the conclusion that I can always do a 5 gallon batch on a 10 gallon setup, but not the other way around. I'd rather do my build once and be fine than have to worry about resizing later. Just my thought process.

 

[TungstenBeer]

Do you think there is a happy medium on the herms coil? I'm brewing in 8-10 gal SS kettles now and will move to 15 gal keggles.

50' SS coil overkill? Will it even fit in the smaller pot? 30' a better middle ground?

I will ask the copper vs. SS on another thread, lol...

The diameter of the coil is the bigger deal if you ask me. Usually the 1/2" coils are just too big to fit in a smaller pot. I'm pretty sure you will be able to fit 50' if you can fit 25' - the coil just gets taller.

 

[augiedoggy]

I went with a 13gallon boil kettle because I only did 5 gallons brews... now I do a lot of 10 gallon and its tough boiling 11.5 gallons in a 13 gallon pot... If I were to do it again I would have gone with narrow tall 15-16 gallons kettles across the board which work great for both sizes without any real tradeoffs.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

I only ever did 5 gallon batches but still built my system out of keggles (BK / HLT) and the 10gal Rubbermaid. After a few brews and realizing that the beer goes out of the keggerator pretty quick, I opted to start making 10gal batches. I didn't have to change a thing and now do almost exclusively 10gal batches. Same basic time involved, double the beer, which means I only have to brew half as often to get the same output - seemed perfect to me!

Suggest you do as others have mentioned - size everything for 10gal batches, but if the kettles are the one thing you can't buy right now, swap them out later. At least then you've got the right sized element. The HLT doesn't really need to be that big for the HERMS anyways. You need enough water to do your sparge - other than that, make sure your coil is small enough to fit whatever container you go with.

-Kevin

 

[VulgarCelt]

Ok I have also been looking into the 3500w induction cook tops. This is obviously more expensive than adding an element to my pots but wouldn't this allow for an easier upgrade path from my existing 5 gal to 10? I wouldn't have to preform surgery on any of my equipment. I have already checked for magnetism on my pots and they are all usable.

I was thinking 3500w for boil and 1800w for HLT / Exchange...

Anyone out there do this? I see plenty of examples with 5 gal. Any 10?

 

[jeffmeh]

Ok I have also been looking into the 3500w induction cook tops. This is obviously more expensive than adding an element to my pots but wouldn't this allow for an easier upgrade path from my existing 5 gal to 10? I wouldn't have to preform surgery on any of my equipment. I have already checked for magnetism on my pots and they are all usable.

I was thinking 3500w for boil and 1800w for HLT / Exchange...

Anyone out there do this? I see plenty of examples with 5 gal. Any 10?

5500w immersed would be more tenable and much faster for 10 gal batches.

 

[cacm2226]

I thought long about the same dilemma and went with a ten gallon system. This gives me the option to do 5 gallon and 10 gallon batches

 

[wilserbrewer]

Guessing 3500w induction would be a bit light for 10 gal batches, 3500w immersion would struggle

 

[augiedoggy]

Ok I have also been looking into the 3500w induction cook tops. This is obviously more expensive than adding an element to my pots but wouldn't this allow for an easier upgrade path from my existing 5 gal to 10? I wouldn't have to preform surgery on any of my equipment. I have already checked for magnetism on my pots and they are all usable.

I was thinking 3500w for boil and 1800w for HLT / Exchange...

Anyone out there do this? I see plenty of examples with 5 gal. Any 10?

there is a Tomlinson brand 3500w induction top that sells for $125.... Thats the best value Ive seen. I agree it would be a bit weak for 10 gallons though..

 

[branman]

When faced with the same question I followed with many of the others posted here. 10 gal setup and works great on 5 gal batches too. I have a RIMS so the herms coil was not an issue

 

[VulgarCelt]

Will this work for my element(s):

Camco 02962/02963 5500W 240V Screw-In Lime Life Ripple Water Heater Element - Ultra Low Watt Density

 

[-CHRIS-]

If I were to do it again I would have gone with narrow tall 15-16 gallons kettles across the board which work great for both sizes without any real tradeoffs.

I really think keggles are ideal because of they are only 16" in diameter. I posted a similar thread a few days ago trying to decide on 10 or 20 gallon kettles and after looking at the diameters, it appears that a keggle is an ideal size.

Chris

 

[estricklin]

10 gallon batches are nice, you'll have a nice beer stash around much quicker than you can imagine. I brew my proven recipes at 10 gallons, and I save the 5 gallons for experimenting. When you have a 10 gallon system, you can double brew and do a 20 gallon batch! I really think it would be worth it for you to do just do it the way you want from the start.

 

[augiedoggy]

I really think keggles are ideal because of they are only 16" in diameter. I posted a similar thread a few days ago trying to decide on 10 or 20 gallon kettles and after looking at the diameters, it appears that a keggle is an ideal size.

Chris

This is why I mentioned the taller kettles are better they are also more efficient... and work better for smaller 5 gallon batches since the level in the pot will be higher than a wide kettle. its more of a win win with less tradeoffs.
my 16 gallon bayou classic kettles are just about the same width and height as my keggle was. maybe 1/2" difference....

 

[augiedoggy]

10 gallon batches are nice, you'll have a nice beer stash around much quicker than you can imagine. I brew my proven recipes at 10 gallons, and I save the 5 gallons for experimenting. When you have a 10 gallon system, you can double brew and do a 20 gallon batch! I really think it would be worth it for you to do just do it the way you want from the start.

exactly what I've discovered...

 

[ghohn]

I have a 3kw immersion heat stick that works on 10 gallon batches. Tried using 5kw but blew my breakers. With a wrapped pot, it gets to boil .. eventually.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have a 3kw immersion heat stick that works on 10 gallon batches. Tried using 5kw but blew my breakers. With a wrapped pot, it gets to boil .. eventually.

You could always try a 4500w element.... draws 18 amps instead of 23 like the 5500w... if the boil is really weak it will effect your beer and can result in hangovers. :cross:

 

[cacm2226]

This is why I mentioned the taller kettles are better they are also more efficient... and work better for smaller 5 gallon batches since the level in the pot will be higher than a wide kettle. its more of a win win with less tradeoffs.
my 16 gallon bayou classic kettles are just about the same width and height as my keggle was. maybe 1/2" difference....

What are you using for a false bottom I have the one from bayou classic for the 16 inch kettle but I have concerns as it does not sit flush on the rim of the kettle I have yet to brew with it

 

[ghohn]

You could always try a 4500w element.... draws 18 amps instead of 23 like the 5500w... if the boil is really weak it will effect your beer and can result in hangovers. :cross:

I'm in Korea. My off the shelf choices are 3kw and 5kw. Life I said, I get a healthy boil I just have to earn it .

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

10 gallon batches are nice, you'll have a nice beer stash around much quicker than you can imagine. I brew my proven recipes at 10 gallons, and I save the 5 gallons for experimenting. When you have a 10 gallon system, you can double brew and do a 20 gallon batch! I really think it would be worth it for you to do just do it the way you want from the start.

I have A 10 Gallon setup.How do you brew 20 gallons in it?

 

[brewguyver]

there is a Tomlinson brand 3500w induction top that sells for $125.... Thats the best value Ive seen. I agree it would be a bit weak for 10 gallons though..

I've had 10 gallon with a heavy rolling boil on my avantgo 3500 watt burner. I think 12-13 gallons of wort would be pretty doable. The key would be to insulate the kettle and make sure it's a pot that's intended for induction.

 

[estricklin]

I have A 10 Gallon setup.How do you brew 20 gallons in it?

Brew 2 batches in a row, OR have a 25 gallon boil kettle as I do, so I have to only mash twice.

I have a different perspective on this now about the 5 gallon vs. 10. The real question is, do you want more beer, or less beer? More beer? Or less beer? You really can't have too much beer, it would be like having a wife that's too hot or a TV that's too big.

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm in Korea. My off the shelf choices are 3kw and 5kw. Life I said, I get a healthy boil I just have to earn it .

if you have 220v power I would think your options would be bigger than that if you ordered it online?

 

[VulgarCelt]

I have a different perspective on this now about the 5 gallon vs. 10. The real question is, do you want more beer, or less beer? More beer? Or less beer? You really can't have too much beer, it would be like having a wife that's too hot or a TV that's too big.

Ahhhh....

First world problems...

I have been seriously looking at the Avantco 3500w induction as well as the water heater elements. It look like if you insulate the pot they work quite well.