5 minutes boil

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Ninoid

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I open this thread, although there is already talk of this on this forum, because I have tried and became an advocate of this way.

I am an eBIAB brewer and brew in the bathroom area in the shower tub because I have a small apartment in the city area and live too high, and I prefer to be independent of weather conditions and infection during the brewing process. In this space, it is very difficult to carry a full boil of 60 minutes because the whole bathroom would swim from evaporation. That's why I was looking for an alternative and tried first with No Boil, but I left it because I could not get a good beer that would not be damaged after a few weeks. I tried with 15 minutes of boil, but in such a way there was a lot of evaporation so I tried the 5 minute boil and Hopstand for 30 minutes and got great results. The beer is delicious, bitter and stable for a long time, and evaporation is minimal.

Procedure:

- I put 25L of tap water (my tap water is very good for me and I use it directly for full volume BIAB) in plastic pot of 35L with electric heater of 2000W, put the BIAB bag (do not touch the heater) and warm water up to 70'C
- I slowly put the grain with constant stirring and cover the pot and leave it for 40 to 60 minutes (probably 30 minutes enough).
- I lift my bag and squeeze it well and I warm it up to 80'C.
- I remove lid and put FWH and full boil hop and continue warming until a vigorous boil (cca 93'C) starts.
- I stir sugar (if I use it) and let it so boil for 5 minutes.
- shut off the heater, pour cold water up to 23L of wort, stir the late and hopstand hop and partly covered, leave 30 minutes with occasional stirring so that the temperature of wort drops to 80'C.
- I put the wort in the fermenter through the strain so most of the hop stays out (clogs the bottle filler and the beer is blurry).
- I close the fermenter well and let it cool naturally to the yeast temperature (up to 24 hours).
- pitch yeast and put the airlock on the fermenter.
- after two weeks bottle. Put 3g of table sugar on any bottle (this is better for me because all bottles recive same amount, simpler with small funnel, no separate bucket and one less pouring for oxidation).
- yet another ten days and drink.

I use BrewMate (very simple, accurate and freeware) for create recipes and define 15 minute boil for hop (5 minutes boil + hopstand 30 minutes = 15 minutes boil).
 
Good call using FWH - with such a short boil this will help you get reasonable bitterness.
 
Good call using FWH - with such a short boil this will help you get reasonable bitterness.

And hopstand.
A fair amount of bitterness is released during these 30 minutes. I'm extremely pleased with that.
 
How much bitterness do you think you’re getting from hopstand? I’ve mocked up a recipe in Brewers Friend and I’m only getting 5 IBU from 25g of Styrian Goldings at flameout (5.5% AA, 7% utilisation).
 
Flameout is not the same as a whirlpool, at least for me. The difference is the temperature. Flameout means still boiling temperature and that - without any active cooling - will drop slowly, meaning that whatever hops you put in at this stage, will still add significant bitterness for the next 15-20 minutes.

A whirlpool, done say at a temperature under 170F, will add minimal bitterness, but will enhance the aroma and flavour in beer. 20-30 minutes would be enough. Adding hops in a boiling wort for 5 minutes and then adding some more at flameout while cooling the beer down and then adding even more, once you've reached your desired whirlpool temperature, will add sufficient bitterness. But it's directly related to how much hops you put in. 25 gr of low alpha hops will not get you there, not even when added at the 60 minutes mark. You want something like 100-150 gr hops.
 
Flameout is not the same as a whirlpool, at least for me. The difference is the temperature. Flameout means still boiling temperature and that - without any active cooling - will drop slowly, meaning that whatever hops you put in at this stage, will still add significant bitterness for the next 15-20 minutes.

A whirlpool, done say at a temperature under 170F, will add minimal bitterness, but will enhance the aroma and flavour in beer. 20-30 minutes would be enough. Adding hops in a boiling wort for 5 minutes and then adding some more at flameout while cooling the beer down and then adding even more, once you've reached your desired whirlpool temperature, will add sufficient bitterness. But it's directly related to how much hops you put in. 25 gr of low alpha hops will not get you there, not even when added at the 60 minutes mark. You want something like 100-150 gr hops.

If you whirlpool without cooling, the effect would not be dissimilar to a hop stand.

I understand that more hops equal more bitterness, that’s a basic concept. 100g+ at the end of the boil
is wasteful imo. However, if a 5 minute boil is all someone can manage (as per OP) then I suppose it’s the only option.
 
If you don't chill, the wort will stay at least 30 min in the 90c+ range, with normal boiling temperature it will stay even in the 95+ range.

This gives you lots of the bittering potential. I often do this myself, longest boil I do atm is 20 min, but I think I will reduce this in the future even further. Bitterness is no problem as long as you don't chill for a certain amount of time after flame out. The no chill time is practically almost as good as boiling.
 
I use 40g (less of 2oz) of high AA hops (Columbus, Magnum) at FWH and not add extra hops after flameout, but I leave it naturally cool, with occasional stirring and additives up to 2L cold water, partially without lid, until the temperature falls to 80'C, which takes up to 30 minutes. Bitterness is strong and taste, by my calculation over 30IBU.

I naturally chill, but highest temperature in fermenter is 75'C (I want to make sure of DMS, and more secure for a plastic fermenter) and filter hops in pouring from kettle (no any benefit of it, but clog bottle filler). I believe it will not affect the bitterness.
 
How much bitterness do you think you’re getting from hopstand? I’ve mocked up a recipe in Brewers Friend and I’m only getting 5 IBU from 25g of Styrian Goldings at flameout (5.5% AA, 7% utilisation).

Do we know what models / equations Brewers Friend uses?

There have been a couple of research articles (including lab measurements of IBUs) for flame-out / steep / whirlpool hops (Basic Brewing Radio, Nov 1, 2018? talks about one of them).

[updates 15 min after first post]: http://brulosophy.com/2018/02/05/kettle-hop-vs-hop-stand-exbeeriment-results/ is also interesting - as there are lab measured IBUs.
 
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I use 40g (less of 2oz) of high AA hops (Columbus, Magnum) at FWH and not add extra hops after flameout, but I leave it naturally cool, with occasional stirring and additives up to 2L cold water, partially without lid, until the temperature falls to 80'C, which takes up to 30 minutes. Bitterness is strong and taste, by my calculation over 30IBU.

I naturally chill, but highest temperature in fermenter is 75'C (I want to make sure of DMS, and more secure for a plastic fermenter) and filter hops in pouring from kettle (no any benefit of it, but clog bottle filler). I believe it will not affect the bitterness.
You can try adding another 30g or so at the point where you reached 80c, then it won't contribute much for bittering, but lots of aroma and flavor. Maybe wait till 75c. Then keep it in there for half an hour or an hour while it cools naturally. Should be good!
 
I think your efforts to meet your situation are cool. I don't understand the weather independence. Why does the weather lead you to the bathroom too? Using a hot Whirlpool to your advantage in this situation is clever. This is a thing I love about Homebrew. Brewers find problems for their situations and work on solutions. Using a tippy dump, pumps to move water, tea kettle elements in a bathroom, rock on.

Its peculiar that it has taken this long for the brewing world to better understand whirlpool, hopstands, whatever you want to call it. No chill too. Have you ever seen the idea that to fix no chill hops you do fwh? That makes sense. It is reasonable to think that as the hops sit in 190 plus water for 30 mins or longer they are producing bitterness. In the hopstand vs boil hops, brulosophy added all the hops at one whirlpool charge vs added throughout boil, the lab and palates confirmed similar ibus.
 
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I’ve got it selected for Tinseth.
With Tinseth (the model from the 1990s), knowing what, if any, additional equations Brewers Friend uses for late hop additions would be helpful in this discussion.

Aside: I'm not concerned about the age of the Tinseth model. For a range of brewing techniques, it is generally regarded as a good model for estimating IBUs.


How much bitterness do you think you’re getting from hopstand?

In the mid-2010s, there are a number of articles and studies that offer ideas on how to get good estimates of IBUs for late hop additions. Off the top of my head: How to Brew, 4e has one; 2) Basic Brewing Radio (Nov 1, 2018) talks about a study that offers additional insights; and 3) the Brulosophy article I mentioned.

So, again, knowing what equations any piece of recipe software uses for estimating late hop additions would be helpful in this discussion.
 
I use:

5 minutes boil + hopstand 30 minutes = 15 minutes boil
That proved fairly accurate to me.
 
I use:

5 minutes boil + hopstand 30 minutes = 15 minutes boil
That proved fairly accurate to me.
But keep in mind that your boil temperature is significantly lower than 100c, so other people might actually get much more out of it.... If I drop stuff at flame out with no chill in, I put 20min boil into my calculator, and this seems to work more or less. I think one batch with flame out no chill hops only and aiming for a certain known bitterness will pretty much tell everybody how to upscale or downscale, if necessary. I think 20 min is a good approximation for normal boil temperature.
 
I use:

5 minutes boil + hopstand 30 minutes = 15 minutes boil
That proved fairly accurate to me.
I would estimate that as closer to a 35 min boil, especially if no cooling was applied. If it was cooled then what temperature could play a role I suppose. Heard it said well once, hops are bitter, ever eat one.
 
I would estimate that as closer to a 35 min boil, especially if no cooling was applied. If it was cooled then what temperature could play a role I suppose. Heard it said well once, hops are bitter, ever eat one.

Maybe you're right. It is harder to pinpoint bitterness through IBU when we do not have any measuring instruments.
I found that 40g of Columbus FWH at 23L of wort was very good bitter, almost 40IBU in my estimation. Contrary to this, when I put 40g of Magnum bitterness in taste it is much milder although both of these hops have almost the same AA.
 
Somehow it doesn't... We both played around with it quite a lot, you can look up parts of the results in "the lazy German" thread, in the lager forum.
I'm looking at doing a cold brew mash for darks only the night before. A hands on quick brew concept. Started the quick brew process in summer during tons-o-home improvement projects. Interested in expanding in 2019.
 
My 5 minutes boil APA after one month.
Is very tasting.

5 minutes APA.jpg
 
Drink last bottle of 5 minutes boil Kolsch. Two and half month after first bottle.
Same taste and smell. Maybe little less bitter, but this beer is not very bitter from first day.

Next. Taste young Hefenweizen.
Very tasting and drinkable beer from brew to drink (bottle carbonation) for 15 days.

hefenweizen (young).jpg
 
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