5.2 Stabilizer. Thoughts?

[Mpavlik22]

What's everyones thoughts on 5.2 Stabilizer? Worth it? Any bad luck with it?

 

[Chap]

Do a quick search. There is quite a large thread about how useless it is. Don't waste your money.

 

[Catt22]

Good product. I use it regularly. The cost is trivial as you typically only use about one tablespoon per batch.

 

[user 21663]

It does what it's supposed to but you should really learn how to adjust your water for ph and flavor. It may seem a little daunting at first, but after a while, it starts to make sense.

5.2 does nothing for adjusting your chloride and sulfate, which have a big impact on flavor profiles ( malty vs hoppy ). Calcium and Magnesium are important too for helping yeast fermentation.

Check out the Water-Ganza on Brew Strong on the Brewing Network.

 

[JJL]

It pretty much does what it is supposed to do. But it's not a cure all, make every beer awesome, wonder additive. It helps stabilize the pH of your mash at 5.2, which theoretically creates the optimal conditions for starch conversion. That's all. If your water tastes crappy, or is deficient in sulfates, or has excessive chlorine or magnesium, it's not going to make your beer taste better. The couple of times I tried it, it actually added a noticeable saltiness to the beer as well. You can actually achieve basically the same results for most beers with some RO water, and a little calcium chloride and gypsum. You should also search EZ water calculator and read the water chemistry primer in the brew science forum. Also, I'm assuming you are brewing PM or AG because none of this applies to extract brewing.

 

[scottland]

I personally think it's useless. 5.2 is a weak buffer. The buffers already present in your water are stronger.

Basically, 5.2 works great until you actually buy pH strips or a meter.

 

[Catt22]

I personally think it's useless. 5.2 is a weak buffer. The buffers already present in your water are stronger.

Basically, 5.2 works great until you actually buy pH strips or a meter.

The ph 5.2 continued to work great even after I bought a ph meter and some test strips. The meter and strips seemed to have no affect at all on the mash ph. Personally, I think it's a useful product.

 

[luke2080]

I thought it was useful - when I remembered to use it and before I started playing with my water profile.

When I did nothing else, I got a 7% bump in efficiency when using it because the pH level was more in line with what it should be. If I did nothing I was kicking between 5.5 and 6.

Its the easy way for better conversion. But once you take the next step to adjusting your total water profile, you'll be happier with the end result.

So - depends what you are expecting from it, and how involved you want to get into water chemistry. If you want to do nothing about water, then I'd use it.

 

[scottland]

The ph 5.2 continued to work great even after I bought a ph meter and some test strips. The meter and strips seemed to have no affect at all on the mash ph. Personally, I think it's a useful product.

That was meant as a joke. I never saw a drop in my pH when using 5.2, so i stopped using it.

 

[wildwest450]

It really doesn't work as advertised. Read this quote from someone who really knows water chemistry.

You can't have both because the pH meter will stop the 5.2 from working properly. This is said with tongue firmly in cheek based on dozens of reports that 5.2 is the greatest thing since sliced bread from people who don't measure pH at all or use strips whereas those who use pH meters find that this product does not bring mash pH to 5.2. It really couldn't be expected to unless inordinate amounts of it are used as it has little buffering capacity. A buffer should never be designed for a pH more than 1 unit removed from the closest pK of the acid involved (phosphoric here - nearest pK 7.2 i.e. 2 pH units away). Beyond this it seems to buffer at 5.99 (in distilled water) i.e. the powder is a buffer designed for that pH rather than 5.2. Analysis of the sodium concentration confirms this. This has lead me to wonder whether they are relying on the malt to provide extra monobasic phosphate thus establishing a buffer closer to 5.2 but this is really a desperate attempt on my part to give them some credit for knowing what they are doing (in the chemistry sense - the stuff is sold in every LHBS and mail order catalogue so they do seem to know what they are doing in the marketing sense).

So the serious answer to your question is that 5.2 cannot be relied on to establish proper mash pH. A pH meter will show you that. Or you can take our word for it and save the money on the 5.2. The pH meter is one of the best investments you can make in brewing. Learn how to use it and it will help you to establish proper mash, kettle, and fermenter pH.

 

[Irrenarzt]

I've also tested the 5.2 with a pH meter and yeah, it's pretty much worthless.

 

[repomanz]

if you folks are interested in a great two part podcast check out basic brewing's podcasts. Excellent detailed information about PH, water, etc.

http://www.basicbrewing.com/radio/radio.rss (rss feed)

part 1: http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr03-17-11kaiph01.mp3
part 2: http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr03-24-11kaiph02.mp3

there's a small section in there about 5.2 stabilizer if I recall correctly.

 

[Homercidal]

I'm under the impression that it might work for a small number of people with the right water.

I've read a bunch and listened to the above podcasts and more and find adjusting my water fairly easy and some amount of fun too.

There is a learning curve for most people, but my opinion is that it's worth the effort to figure it out and have a better understanding of your brewing water and how to make it work to it's best potential.

5.2 cannot be a magic bullet that will solve everyone's water problems.

 

[Catt22]

I've also tested the 5.2 with a pH meter and yeah, it's pretty much worthless.

Either that, or just as likely, your ph meter is phukked up.

 

[bob1852]

5.2 has worked wonderfully for me. One of the things I hate about this forum is the attitude that if something doesn't work for you, it can't possibly work for anyone...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/5-2-ph-stabilizer-post-your-results-169092/

 

[Irrenarzt]

I highly doubt that my meter is off. I have a 500 dollar Mettler pH meter that I do a three point calibration every time I use it (4.01. 7.00, 10.00). It also has built-in electrode health monitoring. Not to sound like a doouche or anything but I'm a chemical engineer, I think I know how to measure pH.

5.2 will not buffer RO water to even a pH of 5.5. It hovers around 6.

 

[luke2080]

5.2 will not buffer RO water to even a pH of 5.5. It hovers around 6.

I may be about to sound like an idiot, but if you're talking of just the water pH, you're right, it won't. If the water was 5.2 to start, wouldn't grains cause it to go lower?

Meaning if your water is at a pH of 6, normally darker malted grains will lower the mash. The darker the grains, the more it lowers it. (Hence why you start at certain points depending on the SRM of your beer being brewed)

So I wouldn't expect this to have a pH of 6 pre-mash. How it interacts with the mash and the different degree Lovibond of the malted grains, and does not matter what pH you start with, I do not know. But just clarifying at what point are you measuring the pH...the water, or after the mash has had a chance to sit and stabalize for 20 minutes.

Please don't blast me if this was the worst answer ever, making us all dumber for reading.

 

[Irrenarzt]

No in my experience, the grains will cause the pH of RO water to go higher, not lower. This may be the opposite with darker malts but I cannot say as I have not tried this. I usually modify my strike water to have a pH of about 4.8 as when I add my grains, it will raise up to about 5.4 which is my typical target mash pH. I do not mash with crystals or roasted grains so I am not sure if they will drop the pH or not. Since the more modified (i.e. darker) malts are already converted and do not require mashing, I will add them to the top of the grain bed after mash out for the lauter. You only need them for color/flavor/some slight head retention characteristics. This method avoids any harshness/tannin extraction from mashing the caramelized malts.

My typical process is to 3 point calibrate my pH meter, measure unadjusted RO water before I heat it, adjust it to 4.8 with a small amount of H3PO4 then heat it to my target temp and mash in. Once I have mashed in, I measure again to see if I'm at my target pH then measure again after 30 minutes of saccharification. It usually is on target and no adjustments are needed as long as I hit my initial target pH. I never mash crystal or darker malts.

I'm not blasting anyone, even in my earlier posts. I may come across as a bit douchey as AZ IPA is implying but I am merely relaying my own experiences. My experience has been that the 5.2 does not buffer at 5.2 in my process with RO water. I do not use my house well water as it contains arsenic at fairly high levels. I do not know of any style of beer that requires arsenic in its' water profile. Easier just to use RO and build it as necessary for me.

 

[jbsg02]

I used it for my first 2 batches, I think I got some astringency from those 2 from high ph, but I can't be certain. I've since used lactic acid on my next 2 AG brews, haven't drank them yet to tell the difference

 

[wildwest450]

5.2 has worked wonderfully for me. One of the things I hate about this forum is the attitude that if something doesn't work for you, it can't possibly work for anyone...

Or if it works for you, it will work for everyone else.

_

 

[bob1852]

Or if it works for you, it will work for everyone else.

_

point taken.

 

[Yooper]

I didn't work for me at all, but I did find one probable good use for the leftover stuff in the jar. I think it will help keep my pH under 6.0 when sparging and I can try using it instead of lactic acid if I'm out.

Otherwise, my results with it were not good. The mash pH remained too high, but if I used more to bring the pH down, the beer had a distinct flavor that was almost but not quite salty.

 

[Beezy]

I got some because a local brewer with the same water told me thats what he does and my eff went way up but I am not even sure if its because my technique improved and my water was ok. I need some ph strips I guess. But now I am in for this big jar so I guess I will use it unless my beer starts tasting bad as suggested.

 

[Mpavlik22]

If you use the recommend amount (1Tablespoon per 5 gallons) will it impart any noticeable flavors?

 

[Catt22]

If you use the recommend amount (1Tablespoon per 5 gallons) will it impart any noticeable flavors?

None that I can detect.

 

[genes]

I use it regularly with reasonable success. Although this past tome I screwed up and used 1 tbls per gallon and his my of numbers spot on. I use my well water. Maybe for those that were not successful, a larger dose would work. I don't know, I'm not a chemist or a professional brewer.

 

[MultumInParvo]

Basically, there are people who will tell you that it sucks and does nothing. They use pH meters and will 'prove' it for you.

Others say it works for them, and don't measure anything.

Truth be told. Its somewhere in between. If someone wants to tell me that salt doesn't act as a pH buffer, lets have that debate. If someone says it is perfect, I would disagree. I'd say buy it and see how it works for you.

 

[Beezy]

I wish you could buy just enough for a couple of batches. The jar I got is pretty dang big and it put like 15 bucks or something extra on my grocery bill I think I am going to get some strips for the next batch and see whats up.

 

[bob1852]

Basically, there are people who will tell you that it sucks and does nothing. They use pH meters and will 'prove' it for you.

Others say it works for them, and don't measure anything.

Truth be told. Its somewhere in between. If someone wants to tell me that salt doesn't act as a pH buffer, lets have that debate. If someone says it is perfect, I would disagree. I'd say buy it and see how it works for you.

What about people like me where it works and I measure pH?

With 5.2, my mash is 5.18, without it it's 5.56

 

[erockomania]

It certainly brings down my ph when I need it.