3rd Batch Want to Hit OG Closer

[suckerpunchltd]

Going to be brewing this up in the cold and snow tomorrow. Using a slightly modified version of BierMuncher's Loon Lake Smoke Porter This is only my third brew and my first two I missed OG by quite a bit. Both turned out tasting just fine. First time not sure why I was low, second time over sparged using a "colander fly sparge" method and had a poor grain crush. This will be my first batch sparge attempt over using the colander and pouring water into the mash tun continuously while sparging to keep the 1-2" above grain bed.

Anyhow, here's the steps I have figured out from brew target, shows numbers as follows, hoping this one turns out great and I get closer to the OG and if something seems off on the steps etc. chime in.

Original Gravity: 1.051
Final Gravity: 1.010

Steps show as follows:

Heat water :
3.272 gal water to 176.991 F, 4.661 gal water to 177.582 F(sparge)
45.000 min Infusion - Conversion : Add 3.272 gal water at 176.991 F to mash tun

Add Grains :
5.000 lb Briess - Smoked Malt,
3.000 lb Briess - Munich Malt 10L,
1.000 lb Briess - Carapils Malt,
12.000 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L,
12.000 oz Chocolate Malt (US),
12.000 oz Dark Brown Sugar (abv boost in boil/slightly dry it a bit)

45.000 min Conversion Mash: Temp at 157.000 F. Hold for 45.000 min.

Collect Wort: First runnings, should gather approximate 2.25-2.5 gallons
Batch Sparge
15.000 min Infusion - Sparge : Add 4.661 gal water at 177.582 F to mash to bring it to 165.000 F. Stir thoroughly and hold for 15.000 min. (should get approx 4.1-4.4 gallons to get target boil amount)

Collect Wort: Targeting 6.625 Gal pre-boil amount

60.000 min Start boil : Bring the wort to a boil and hold for 60.000 min..
60.000 min Hop addition : Put 0.500 oz Northern Brewer into boil for 60.000 min.
60.000 min Hop addition : Put 0.750 oz Willamette into boil for 60.000 min.

Flameout : Stop boiling the wort.

Post boil : You should have 5.568 gal wort post-boil. You anticipate losing 2.800 tbsp to trub and chiller loss. The final volume in the primary is 5.557 gal.

Pitch yeast : Cool wort and pitch Danstar - Nottingham Ale yeast, to the primary.

Ferment : Let ferment until FG is 1.010.

Transfer to secondary : Transfer beer to secondary.
Misc addition : Put 2 Vanilla Beans into secondary for 7 days.
Misc addition : Put 2-lbs Raspberry into secondary for 7 days.

 

[specharka]

You're going to miss your final gravity with > 20% adjunct and a conversion rest of 157F, I can guarantee you that. Also, what's the point of adding fruit to a smoked porter? Seems like any hint of fruit will get lost in the dense layers of chocolate and smoky aroma.

 

[suckerpunchltd]

You're going to miss your final gravity with > 20% adjunct and a conversion rest of 157F, I can guarantee you that. Also, what's the point of adding fruit to a smoked porter? Seems like any hint of fruit will get lost in the dense layers of chocolate and smoky aroma.

The original recipe was for a fuller body but the OG was still 1.050? Not sure how that works exactly as this recipe in three diff tools gives three diff result on estimated numbers. Question I have is: Would lower temp and longer conversion do better?

Was unsure on fruit figured it would either be so faint or lost but wanted experiment and opinions of more experienced Brewers.

Thank you for the insight so far, just still figuring things out.

 

[specharka]

The original recipe was for a fuller body but the OG was still 1.050? Not sure how that works exactly as this recipe in three diff tools gives three diff result on estimated numbers. Question I have is: Would lower temp and longer conversion do better?

Was unsure on fruit figured it would either be so faint or lost but wanted experiment and opinions of more experienced Brewers.

Thank you for the insight so far, just still figuring things out.

Recipe builders use an assumed apparent attenuation and efficiency to generate predicted values for OG and FG. However, many do not account for mash fermentability or conversion efficiency, which makes estimates slightly more cumbersome.

A lower saccharification temperature and a longer rest will invariably benefit wort fermentability, but is that what you're really looking to achieve? It seems to me like you are looking to hit a predicted O.G., which is really an arbitrary metric. If you know your mash efficiency from previous batches, you can use that in conjunction with the OG/FG calculator to provide you an accurate estimate for what your OG should be.

Mash Efficiency = [OG] x [Volume] / [Potential Sugars]
e.g.
[5.568 gal] x [51 pts] / [(10.5x36 pts)+(0.75x45 pts)] = 68.9%

Compare that efficiency to previous batches and scale this batch accordingly.

 

[jbb3]

The original recipe was for a fuller body but the OG was still 1.050? Not sure how that works exactly as this recipe in three diff tools gives three diff result on estimated numbers. Question I have is: Would lower temp and longer conversion do better?

Was unsure on fruit figured it would either be so faint or lost but wanted experiment and opinions of more experienced Brewers.

Thank you for the insight so far, just still figuring things out.

You won't be able to accurately predict your OG until you dial in your process with relative consistency and determine your typical efficiency. Once you determine your typical efficiency for your set-up and your process, you'll be able to adjust your grain bill to target a predictable OG.

First, decide which method of mashing you plan to use going forward and stick with it so you can develop a relative consistent baseline.

Second, plug in your grain bill into your favorite brew SW and change the efficiency to 70%. If the SW you use doesn't allow you to adjust efficiency %, find a new brew app that does.

Third, once you complete your next batch, take an OG reading. Record that reading, go back to your brew SW and adjust the efficiency % until the predicted OG equals the measured OG for your batch.

After you do this for a few batches, you'll be able to predict your OG with relative accuracy. Keep good notes for every batch. Record all volumes, temps, gravity readings. Record both predicted and actual measurements. Then you'll be able to look back and make real time adjustments when needed.

 

[suckerpunchltd]

Thanks for the replies. Definitely am going to keep notes as I have on past two batches but inexperience claimed accuracy on previous as I didn't measure volumes as accurate as I should have. Now have measurement Marlins for boil kettle and other places I was missing accuracy and can effectively measure losses and pre boil volume accurately.

Having that I can hit target volumes better which should then help once I plug everything into the SW and adjust efficiency to match what the real measurements are. Then after that a few batches in with consistency in process and measurements then refine process and equipment to get better, correct?

Specharka- I don't mind not hitting the numbers but last brew was .010 lower and as such came out to be very low ABV but super tasty and drinkable. I like a mix of stronger abv and lower abv to have on hand so not a big deal but happened twice, so thought I should work towards hitting numbers more. This particular brew should have sweetness left over and should have more mouthfeel so yes numbers aside I would rather make a lower abv and miss number and have a thicker feel Porter at the end.

 

[Aristotelian]

As other have said, you don't want to be changing up your process in unpredictable ways. Best thing to do is keep your process the same and adjust your recipe. If your process is missing OG low, then compensate by increasing your grainbill. The size of your grainbill is much easier to control and predict than changing up your process.

This seems like a really weird recipe to be trying for your third batch. You have a high mash temp and all the smoked malt. If the beer tastes off, you won't be able to isolate what is wrong with it until your process is in order. I would suggest trying a simple recipe, possibly one of the ones you have already made.

 

[Calder]

Original Gravity: 1.051
Final Gravity: 1.010

Grains :
5.000 lb Briess - Smoked Malt,
3.000 lb Briess - Munich Malt 10L,
1.000 lb Briess - Carapils Malt,
12.000 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L,
12.000 oz Chocolate Malt (US),
12.000 oz Dark Brown Sugar (abv boost in boil/slightly dry it a bit)

Conversion Mash: Temp at 157 F. Hold for 45 min.

0.5 oz Northern Brewer 60 min.
0.75 oz Willamette 60.0 min.

5.56 gal wort post-boil.

Cool wort and pitch Danstar - Nottingham Ale yeast, to the primary.

Ferment : Let ferment until FG is 1.010.

Misc addition : Put 2 Vanilla Beans into secondary for 7 days.
Misc addition : Put 2-lbs Raspberry into secondary for 7 days.

If anything, I think you will exceed your OG. I'd be looking at closer to 1.060, but it depends on your efficiency.

2.5 lbs specialty malts and 157 mash temp, and you will be lucky to get down to 1.020 for an FG. Might want to try mashing around 150 if you want to get it decently dry.

I don't think the Raspberries are going to do anything.

 

[suckerpunchltd]

As other have said, you don't want to be changing up your process in unpredictable ways. Best thing to do is keep your process the same and adjust your recipe. If your process is missing OG low, then compensate by increasing your grainbill. The size of your grainbill is much easier to control and predict than changing up your process.

This seems like a really weird recipe to be trying for your third batch. You have a high mash temp and all the smoked malt. If the beer tastes off, you won't be able to isolate what is wrong with it until your process is in order. I would suggest trying a simple recipe, possibly one of the ones you have already made.

I agree it may be a weird recipe to try for only my third. My first was a pumpkin spice brown which was just slightly off the numbers. The second was a simple SMaSH using 2-row and Willamette hops only. Came in way low, but my volumes were way off (partly my fault and mis-reading the brew software I sparged with about an extra gallon of water and didn't compensate by boiling longer and had a poor crush on the grain).

So that said I know the second batch what went wrong, first batch not so much. However that said, I don't mind sparging with a colander and manually doing it that way, seems to work, but I thought that might be part of the issue.

If, by what has been suggested, I keep the sparge process the same, then that removes that variable and I can focus on other inefficiencies and process issues and fine tune and get good results after more brew sessions, which I am ok with.

I guess I just thought with missing so bad twice, even with the first batch not too bad (1.037 with expected at 1.041) and the SMaSH at 1.037 instead of what should have been 1.048 if I remember right I might seek input here just to make sure I covered things this batch.

Seems as though I should rather keep the process the same and if I keep coming in lower, adjust the grain bill first and then find inefficiencies and mistakes after trying repeatable recipes.

This is just an attempt at a dark porter for enjoyment around the new year...so far two batches have been way off, but still very enjoyable taste wise and everything else, albeit a bit lower alcohol due to the issues.

I do think I will be getting a 50lb bag of 2-row and a grain mill next month, so I can take the smash recipe and recreate it and find the fixes for it within the process I used and keep at it until I make progress, which seems to be the better route to go. Nice thing is, with that batch everyone absolutely loves it after only 2 weeks so it's a keeper house ale now and I can use it as baseline to keep improving.

Thanks again for the replies and insight and I will keep brewing until I get things more ironed out and on targets - both volume and OG/FG wise.

 

[suckerpunchltd]

If anything, I think you will exceed your OG. I'd be looking at closer to 1.060, but it depends on your efficiency.



2.5 lbs specialty malts and 157 mash temp, and you will be lucky to get down to 1.020 for an FG. Might want to try mashing around 150 if you want to get it decently dry.



I don't think the Raspberries are going to do anything.

I did the normal procedure of fly sparging but did it slower than last two batches taking about 60 minutes. Also recrushed the grain since this was part of the last batch that had bad crush. Ended at 1.059 OG after a 1.038 Pre-boil Gravity, 60 minute boil in 15 degrees ended with 5.3 gallons in my measure stick instead of 5.6xx gallons.

So indeed I exceeded the OG and is likely due to better crush and sparging practice. This ones going to be good I think.

 

[suckerpunchltd]

I should add I altered the mash and did 154 for 60 minutes.