38 percent efficiency :/

[chemman14]

So I attempted to brew my first all grain barley wine yesterday and things didnt go as planned. the recipie had 23.3 lbs of 2 row. When everything was done and finished my gravity reading was only 1.071 :/ wtf happened? I did a 90 minute rest at 149. I am assuming I didnt get a full conversion. What does this mean for the beer? It is currently fermenting and even required a blowoff tube. Damn pacman yeast is wild!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I think in order to diagnose this we'll need more information.

Normal efficiency? Mash thickness? Pre-boil / Post-boil volume? Pre-boil gravity (if you have that)? Are you sure your thermometer is calibrated?

Also worth considering, is the grain by any chance older?

 

[chemman14]

Normal efficiency is 70-72% mash thickness was 1.168 (thicker than normal but my mash tun is only 10 gallons) Pre boil volume was 7.2 gallons post boil was abou 5.8 gallons. Dont have pre boil gravity. And yes my thermometer is calibrated, its a thermapen. I am not sure on the grain but I highly doubt it as I bought it from my LHBS which is very popular and I have never had an issue with their grain before.

 

[Denny]

I think it's because you didn't use enough water. When you make a big beer in a small tun, you either have to accept low efficiency or run off a lot more wort and boil longer.

 

[chemman14]

I think it's because you didn't use enough water. When you make a big beer in a small tun, you either have to accept low efficiency or run off a lot more wort and boil longer.

really? :/ damn. Well at least I made beer

 

[Denny]

yep, really.....

 

[Polboy]

I think it's because you didn't use enough water. When you make a big beer in a small tun, you either have to accept low efficiency or run off a lot more wort and boil longer.

+1, its hard to wash all that sugar, if you would mash thinner and use more water for sparging (double sparging) you would get more points in BK and of course more water to boil off

 

[chemman14]

+1, its hard to wash all that sugar, if you would mash thinner and use more water for sparging (double sparging) you would get more points in BK and of course more water to boil off

well you live and you learn. I may try this again in a couple months but replace 10 lbs of base grain with DME

 

[Legin]

Agreed. It's very hard to reach your intended gravity with barley wines that are made in small tuns without the addition of DME in the boil. Efficiency is often low because a lot of sugar is left behind in the grains due to insufficient sparging, or the incapability to sparge any more. Most breweries that make a barley wine will make a lower gravity beer out the same grains they used to make the barley wine. You might have been able to do that, assuming you did reach a satisfactory conversion.

 

[Bobby_M]

I suspect that maybe you didn't get full conversion. The first 4 gallons or so out of the tun should have been 1.118.

The other thing that helps with huge grain bills like this is to apply pressure to the grainbed to squeeze out every bit of runnings. In a bill that big, you have 3 gallons of 1.118 wort tied up.

 

[chemman14]

I suspect that maybe you didn't get full conversion. The first 4 gallons or so out of the tun should have been 1.118.

The other thing that helps with huge grain bills like this is to apply pressure to the grainbed to squeeze out every bit of runnings. In a bill that big, you have 3 gallons of 1.118 wort tied up.

any idea on the reason for that? I did forget to take a post mash temp reading so maybe I dropped a bunch during the mash
I also heard that squeezing grains leads to tannins, is this a myth?

 

[Malticulous]

A lot a mash tuns can't get that wort any way. Braids can not siphon. Manifolds that can siphon will loose it and not be able to start run off again. You'd really need one that drains right off the bottom.

 

[Polboy]

any idea on the reason for that? I did forget to take a post mash temp reading so maybe I dropped a bunch during the mash
I also heard that squeezing grains leads to tannins, is this a myth?

I see grain bed as solution of sugars+water in between erm.. grain, when you add strike water you get the sugars in suspension and start enzymatic reaction of cutting long sugar chains (starch) in to smaller fragments, this is temperature dependent but the lower temp you have more of shorter sugars you get and short sugars are more fermentable so lower mash temp=lower FG=higher attenuation,more alcohol and less body but not necessarily lower OG. After you done with mash process you drain your tun to get all the sugar+water solution in to the BK but there is still lots of liquid bound to grains so you have to sparge (dilute whats bound by grain and drain again). By squeezing grains (and some ppl are using other methods like pressurizing mash tun with gas supply from the top) you are pushing water+sugar out of the grain without adding new water. I agree with Boby that it would be helpful i just dont think its 1.118 og wort you would get when squeezing but rather wort at og of the last sparge

 

[chemman14]

I see grain bed as solution of sugars+water in between erm.. grain, when you add strike water you get the sugars in suspension and start enzymatic reaction of cutting long sugar chains (starch) in to smaller fragments, this is temperature dependent but the lower temp you have more of shorter sugars you get and short sugars are more fermentable so lower mash temp=lower FG=higher attenuation,more alcohol and less body but not necessarily lower OG. After you done with mash process you drain your tun to get all the sugar+water solution in to the BK but there is still lots of liquid bound to grains so you have to sparge (dilute whats bound by grain and drain again). By squeezing grains (and some ppl are using other methods like pressurizing mash tun with gas supply from the top) you are pushing water+sugar out of the grain without adding new water. I agree with Boby that it would be helpful i just dont think its 1.118 og wort you would get when squeezing but rather wort at og of the last sparge

thanks for all of the pointers. Glad I posted this here and could learn from it. I will definitely report back on this beer. It should be interesting as I added 2.65 oz of 12% magnum for 60 minutes. It should be way too bitter.

 

[Bobby_M]

I see grain bed as solution of sugars+water in between erm.. grain, when you add strike water you get the sugars in suspension and start enzymatic reaction of cutting long sugar chains (starch) in to smaller fragments, this is temperature dependent but the lower temp you have more of shorter sugars you get and short sugars are more fermentable so lower mash temp=lower FG=higher attenuation,more alcohol and less body but not necessarily lower OG. After you done with mash process you drain your tun to get all the sugar+water solution in to the BK but there is still lots of liquid bound to grains so you have to sparge (dilute whats bound by grain and drain again). By squeezing grains (and some ppl are using other methods like pressurizing mash tun with gas supply from the top) you are pushing water+sugar out of the grain without adding new water. I agree with Boby that it would be helpful i just dont think its 1.118 og wort you would get when squeezing but rather wort at og of the last sparge

I was assuming he was batch sparging but now that I read back, there's nothing suggesting that. If batch sparging, putting a clean bottom bucket on top of the grain and pushing down will get another .5 to .75 gallons out of a mash like this for the first runnings. I'd only do it this one time while the wort suspended in the grain is the super concentrate. Then sparge, stir, and runoff as normal.

 

[chemman14]

I was assuming he was batch sparging but now that I read back, there's nothing suggesting that. If batch sparging, putting a clean bottom bucket on top of the grain and pushing down will get another .5 to .75 gallons out of a mash like this for the first runnings. I'd only do it this one time while the wort suspended in the grain is the super concentrate. Then sparge, stir, and runoff as normal.

yep batch sparging