3711 is amazing

[crushingblackdoom]

Little update on my West Coast Saisons:

Well, They are both amazingly delicious and balanced after a lil time in the keezer. The hops in the first one (non-dryhopped) mellowed out and let the yeast come thru. The second, dry-hopped, is beautifully bright in fruity Belma hop flavor with a noticeable yeast character.
Lesson learned. Thanx for all the support, gang!

 

[stevensmith501]

Hey Guys,

I've been reading along. Good discussion. Just thought I'd post a picture of this, my first Saison. Man, is it delicious. Happy Brewing!

 

[SpeedYellow]

Wow, this yeast is a beast! Don't even try making a beer with residual sweetness with 3711 because it won't work. I tried all my tricks -- added oats, plenty crystal malts, and mashed warm-ish (ok, only 154F) but it still went from 1.060 to 1.004 and tastes dry as a bone. It seems almost pointless to use anything other than base malt, since 3711 will just eat through it. Oh well, live & learn.

 

[carlsonderek]

Wow, this yeast is a beast! Don't even try making a beer with residual sweetness with 3711 because it won't work. I tried all my tricks -- added oats, plenty crystal malts, and mashed warm-ish (ok, only 154F) but it still went from 1.060 to 1.004 and tastes dry as a bone. It seems almost pointless to use anything other than base malt, since 3711 will just eat through it. Oh well, live & learn.

Try mashing even higher--156-158°--as well as adding some in fermentable sugar like a touch of lactose. May not be normal for your current style but it will add mouthfeel and sweetness. And the higher temps with favor a less fermentable wort obviously. I dunno. Give it a shot.

 

[carlsonderek]

Wow, this yeast is a beast! Don't even try making a beer with residual sweetness with 3711 because it won't work. I tried all my tricks -- added oats, plenty crystal malts, and mashed warm-ish (ok, only 154F) but it still went from 1.060 to 1.004 and tastes dry as a bone. It seems almost pointless to use anything other than base malt, since 3711 will just eat through it. Oh well, live & learn.

Typo correction on my last reply. I meant UNfermentable sugar

 

[JRems]

You can get some residual sweetess by mashing higher, I mashed my black pumpkin saison at 156 and it finished at 1.010. The great part about 3711 is that altough it finishes real dry, it still retains a silky mouthfeel.

 

[Piratwolf]

You can get some residual sweetess by mashing higher, I mashed my black pumpkin saison at 156 and it finished at 1.010. The great part about 3711 is that altough it finishes real dry, it still retains a silky mouthfeel.

This. I love it!

I'm a bit nervous about the dryness for today's brew--a Belgian IPA. I've made it twice before with 530, but the yeast character from that strain kinda clashes with the hops. I'm hoping the more mellow fruitiness of 3711 (I'm keeping it @ 68F for the first 2-3 days of fermentation) will work better with the hop bill. However, that bone-dry finish may make the hops way too dominant. Only one way to find out, I guess...

 

[MattHollingsworth]

This. I love it!

I'm a bit nervous about the dryness for today's brew--a Belgian IPA. I've made it twice before with 530, but the yeast character from that strain kinda clashes with the hops. I'm hoping the more mellow fruitiness of 3711 (I'm keeping it @ 68F for the first 2-3 days of fermentation) will work better with the hop bill. However, that bone-dry finish may make the hops way too dominant. Only one way to find out, I guess...

I made a split batch Belgian IPA with Saaz and Nelson Sauvin (guess which dominated? heh heh) and used Wyeast 3522 and 3711. The 3522 was 8.5%, the 3711 was closer to 10% abv. Most people, me included, preferred the 3711. Works GREAT with hops! It did seem dryer than the 3522, but not as dry as the .997 FG would indicate. I think it gets some mouthfeel from the alcohol it produces.

Anyway, it pairs very, very nicely with hops.

 

[SpeedYellow]

And now for the contrary opinion ... I find that 3711 finishes so dry that a highly hopped beer would be ... I'll call it "challenging". My current is OG 1.072 with 33 IBUs and I'm glad I didn't go higher. If you prefer to balance high hop levels with sweetness, 3711 isn't for you (unless perhaps mashing really high worked).

 

[Piratwolf]

Great feedback, thank you!

I read somewhere that the mouthfeel from 3711 comes from glycerol (glycerine?) production by the yeast. Can't spell that, let alone back it up, but I recall hearing or reading it.

I may re-brew this if it's over the top bitter and drop the hops 10-15%. I'll report back once it's all good to go.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

I should clarify that I am not someone who does crazy over the top IPAs.

The Belgian IPA I made with this yeast was only 52 ibus (Tinseth). For a 24 liter batch, I used 36 grams of EKGs 20 minutes from the end of the boil, 36 grams of Tettnanger 10 minutes from the end of the boil, then dry hopped with 42 grams of Nelson Sauvin, with Columbus as a First Wort Hop (again, softer bittering).

I think, compared to what other people often do that that is pretty mild.

That beer started at 1.074 and ended all the way down at .998, so 10% abv.

What you do with the water is also going to affect how you perceive those hops and the bitterness. I didn't go too crazy on the water. Chloride was at 83, sulfate at 118 for a chloride to sulfate ratio of .71, which is not too much towards the bitter side.

Anyway, for me and some of my friends, it worked out nicely. I guess maybe 15 or so guys tried it, all brewers. Maybe about 3 or 4 of those preferred the Wy3522 batch and the rest preferred the 3711.

Anyway, best of luck and tell us what you end up with and how you like it.

I doubt you can get it where you live, but if you can, this beer is AWESOME. From New Zealand's 8Wired Brewing, a Saison that uses 3711 with Nelson Sauvin and is at 50 ibus. And it's definitely not too harsh, too dry or too bitter, IMHO.

http://8wired.co.nz/our-brews/saison-sauvin-0

 

[highgravitybacon]

Ill give some suggestions from what I found from a batch of this yeast. The whole process in great detail is listed in the recipe drop down under the screen name on the left.

First, it's a very unusual fermentation compared to many of the yeasts I tried in the past. It is in no way a top cropping strain. Very little krausen. Second, it continues to ferment rather slowly after nearing terminal gravity. It took about three weeks to finally stop bubbling. Towards the end, it still slowly fizzed in the carboy. Don't be in a hurry to bottle lest you find out the hard way it's not done.

I cellared it for another two weeks at about 52f to clean it up a bit and make sure the yeast had finished. Initially, the bottles were exceptionally fruity and subtle funky. I don't pick up on the spiciness as well as some people it seems, but I noticed very little spice at first. Given a few months, the frutiness fades slightly and the spice is more noticeable.

If I was to brew another batch, I would not use a fruity hop as a late addition. I would go with something earthy or spicy, like a noble type hop. I also would pitch more yeast to both help restrain the alcohol flavor and help reduce the ferment times.

Temp wise, I would keep it restrained until the very end. Mid 60s at most, increasing to maybe 72 after 90% done. The yeast kicks out enough esters for my taste at the 60s our 70s I don't see much advantage to going higher without risking a hot alcohol character.

Unless you have a special reason, I would limit the simple sugars to maybe 5% or less. Its a rather aggressive sugar eating machine. This will help to keep it from over attenuating. Especially for lighter bodied beers.

 

[tagz]

My first run with this I fermented 65-70. Had a honey, lemon thing going. Pretty subdued overall. This run I'm going 68-75 to try to push the spice and esters. I've seen lots of varied opinions on the fusel thing. However when you think about the guidelines (65-77) it wouldn't make sense that you would have to keep it in the 60s, even in the first few days right?

 

[Piratwolf]

My first run with this I fermented 65-70. Had a honey, lemon thing going. Pretty subdued overall. This run I'm going 68-75 to try to push the spice and esters. I've seen lots of varied opinions on the fusel thing. However when you think about the guidelines (65-77) it wouldn't make sense that you would have to keep it in the 60s, even in the first few days right?

My experience (5 saisons prior to this Belgian IPA) has been that it plays best when I start it in the 65-68 range for 2-3 days and then let it free rise as warm as it wants. I have had ZERO fusel production with this approach, even on a Strong Saison that reached almost 10%. Letting it free rise does allow some flavor development and assures a complete fermentation. YMMV.

 

[JDFlow]

This. I love it!

I'm a bit nervous about the dryness for today's brew--a Belgian IPA. I've made it twice before with 530, but the yeast character from that strain kinda clashes with the hops. I'm hoping the more mellow fruitiness of 3711 (I'm keeping it @ 68F for the first 2-3 days of fermentation) will work better with the hop bill. However, that bone-dry finish may make the hops way too dominant. Only one way to find out, I guess...

You can also adjust your water alkalinity to promote a stronger malt flavor. Might help get you closer to an even balance.

 

[Piratwolf]

In the interim, I've been fermenting a Saison with a blend of wlp530 and 3711. Took the beer from 1.063 down to 1.001. Holy cow.