3-in-1 "Boil Kettle, Jacketed Chiller, Conical Fermenter" by Brewha

[rshosted]

Have you noticed it has a lot of trub on use sides after a boil?

Also any idea of what type of efficiency you're getting?

 

[MeetsCriteria]

Have you noticed it has a lot of trub on use sides after a boil?

Also any idea of what type of efficiency you're getting?

Well, I haven't calc'd brewhouse efficiency. My efficiency after the mash has been lower than I'm used to, which I think has to do with running off too fast (obviously this has nothing to do with the 3-in-1).

If I had to gestalt it, i'd say my brewhouse efficiency has gone up a fair bit as transfer losses are definitely less. After I cool, the grub gets dumped from the conical (before pitching yeast). Probably is just 32 oz worth of wort / trub give or take.

There is some trub on the sides, and I imagine it is no problem. But I have felt compelled to wipe it off as best as possible after 30 min of boiling or so, just because I could.

 

[Jimmy82]

What style of hops do you use in your boil, leaf or pellet? Do you use the hop baskets that Brewha sells?

I use pellet hops and plan on throwing them directly in the boil. My thought is I should be able to drop them out of the bottom drain after the boil is complete. My only concern is clogging that port with compacted hop matter.

Also, have you tried recirculating during chilling with the racking arm that you installed? I'm thinking it would speed up the chilling process significantly.

 

[MeetsCriteria]

So far I've just used pellet. The first batch, I did exactly as you described...just put them in the boil and dumped trub after cooling.

I think that with the hops plus the coagulated protein / trub, I could see how it could plug the system. It took a minute (at least it felt like a minute) or so for the plug to "break free" when I was ready to dump it. There was a gelatinous plug that had formed...The irish moss may have contributed to this?

The second batch I used a hop spider:

http://www.stainlessbrewing.com/Hop-Spider-with-seam-welds_p_158.html

It was the 6 5/8" version. That worked great. Big enough to use for multiple hop additions. Whether one used a hop spider vs. what is offered by brewha, that's the only way I could see using whole hops.

No "plug" with that batch. Trub dump was easy.

I also wondered with the first batch how much of the hops just went to the bottom of the valve / cone vs. stayed aloft in the boil, and how that did / did not contribute to hop utilization. Beer was great, so probably ok...

I have thought of recirculating to chill, and I bet it would be somewhat faster. It slightly complicates the process, introduces an extra sanitation step, and would contribute to less brewhouse efficiency...all counter to why I got the 3-in-1 in the first place. But I have considered doing such, say if I was going to recirculate using a hop back or something like that.

Knowing how long the commercial guys whirlpool, I'm not worried about the 20-30 min to cool it as is...and the fact that sanitation becomes a non-issue is very compelling. I don't miss those last few steps of my old brew process in the least!

 

[ScubaSteve]

I skimmed back through this thread....did I miss any suggestions for low pressure steam? If you could boil the wort by pushing steam through the jacket WITH THE OUTLET COMPLETELY UNRESTRICTED, you would be able to eliminate the element. Then, you could later use the jacket for chilling and maintaining wort temps.

 

[snackson]

You're famous now, http://brewha.co/blogs/brewhablog/1...he-3-in-1?mc_cid=ec8d9708b3&mc_eid=71b6d7d177

 

[snackson]

I skimmed back through this thread....did I miss any suggestions for low pressure steam? If you could boil the wort by pushing steam through the jacket WITH THE OUTLET COMPLETELY UNRESTRICTED, you would be able to eliminate the element. Then, you could later use the jacket for chilling and maintaining wort temps.

That actually sounds like a great idea.

 

[Jimmy82]

Do you think the valve is responsible for the slow draining of the hop/break sludge? I've been thinking about swapping that ball valve out for a butterfly valve. The opening on the ball valve looks like it's quite restrictive compared to the opening on the triclover.

 

[MeetsCriteria]

Do you think the valve is responsible for the slow draining of the hop/break sludge? I've been thinking about swapping that ball valve out for a butterfly valve. The opening on the ball valve looks like it's quite restrictive compared to the opening on the triclover.

That's certainly possible. I have a butterfly valve (1") that I could try next time. That said, the second brew session was not a problem. It could have been the increased hop debris from not using a hop basket, and the hot break congealed in the bottom.

Still loving it but haven't had time to brew again due to work. Probably in the next week or two!

 

[KIAKillerXJ]

Man, I really, really, want the whole BIAC package. And frankly, for $2900 I still think its a smoking deal. Just need the 2900 bucks haha. It would suit my style perfectly. I already brew 10gal BIAB batches, and would love a conical. Jacketed. Pressure transfer. Electric. Not sure what else I could ask for. I don't get to brew often enough for the problem of tying up all my vessels at once, so think it would work brilliantly. And the craftsmanship just looks fantastic.

 

[Smeller]

On a non jacketed fermentor something like this might be an solution to not having a heating element submerged during fermentation.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1740mm-X-250mm-2000-Watt-220V-Silicone-Drum-Heater-WVO-Biodiesel-Tank-Barrel-55G-/131161594612?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1e89d71af4

 

[Brewbien]

Well, I haven't seen anything on this specific topic.

I've had a 120v HERMS mash system for a over a year now but have been using propane for the boil.

Recently, I've been looking to go electric on my brew kettle. Through that search, I discovered the 3-in-1 "Boil Kettle, Jacketed Chiller, Conical Fermenter" by Brewha. I've seen nothing on the forum yet either debating its design, or any posts from early adopters. It seems amazingly promising.

Check it out:

http://brewha.co/products/3-in-1

Long story short, I decided to pull the trigger on it, so mine is "in the mail" as they say.

I'll periodically update my experiences (which are hopefully excellent) for general consumption of the community. Wish me luck!

Cheers,

Mike

Full Disclosure: I have no private or public interest in Breha or its products. My post is simply for information purposes only.

 

[Smeller]

or perhaps it would be possible to boil with low pressure steam through the jacket like on a steam kettle.

or you could circulate heated mineral oil to avoid any pressure, and use the same oil to chill during fermentation
http://www.multitherm.com/multitherm-pg-1.html

 

[Jimmy82]

I ended up upgrading to the BIAC instead of just the 3-in-1. Brewha has upped the size of the conical from 67 liters to 80, allowing you to brew a 10g batch in the single vessel. I can't wait to get this thing in my hands.

 

[MeetsCriteria]

I ended up upgrading to the BIAC instead of just the 3-in-1. Brewha has upped the size of the conical from 67 liters to 80, allowing you to brew a 10g batch in the single vessel. I can't wait to get this thing in my hands.

It just keeps getting better and better! Can't wait to see pics / hear about results!

 

[MeetsCriteria]

Finally found time to upload pics regarding the elements I've tried.

After first brew, the base of the first element did have some bit of oxidation, as I noted earlier. Here's what that looked like:

The upgraded SS base element after the first batch looked like new, as expected (it IS stainless steel after all):

So, no flys on the SS base element for sure!

 

[Jimmy82]

Nice! Thanks for reporting back on that!

 

[Jimmy82]

How's the racking arm you purchased working out?

 

[MeetsCriteria]

The racking arm is a nice addition and highly rec'd.

 

[Boar Beer]

This is a great idea. Thanks MeetsCriteria for starting this thread.
BIAB with a 10 gallon system then 2 weeks in the conical and off to bottle/kegging.

mmmmm lots of time left over for the important work of sampling

 

[KIAKillerXJ]

I REALLY, REALLY want this!

What do organs go for these days? 3k? I don't really need BOTH kidneys, right?

 

[KIAKillerXJ]

Here is a question I've been having though, what is the actual mashing capacity? The conical is 20 gal, the colander is 15. I was trying to calculate out what kind of high gravity 10 gal batch I'd be able to do. My barleywine recipe is 54 lbs, but I currently do it in my 25 gal kettle.

 

[MeetsCriteria]

Here is a question I've been having though, what is the actual mashing capacity? The conical is 20 gal, the colander is 15. I was trying to calculate out what kind of high gravity 10 gal batch I'd be able to do. My barleywine recipe is 54 lbs, but I currently do it in my 25 gal kettle.

I'd recommend contacting Nathan at Brewha via their website...I'm sure he could tell you what sort of efficiencies he's getting which would help you figure out how to adapt your recipe to the BIAC.

 

[Jimmy82]

Wouldn't the limiting factor still be the size of the conical portion? So it would be the same as doing a 10g BIAB in a 20g pot? I could be off on that logic, but I'm thinking the limitation is the amount of space that the water + grain will take up in the conical before it overflows.

If you add a "sparge", then your capacity limit would likely be the size of the colander (the amount of grain the colander can actually hold).

 

[KIAKillerXJ]

Wouldn't the limiting factor still be the size of the conical portion? So it would be the same as doing a 10g BIAB in a 20g pot? I could be off on that logic, but I'm thinking the limitation is the amount of space that the water + grain will take up in the conical before it overflows.

If you add a "sparge", then your capacity limit would likely be the size of the colander (the amount of grain the colander can actually hold).

I guess thats the portion I'm trying to wrap my head around. There is obviously more dead space in the conical portion, not allowing full use of 20 gal. But then the colander is taller than the conical.... Think I could figure it out with it in front of me, but having a hard time visualizing how all the water and grain finds a equilibrium through the two separate pieces.

 

[Jimmy82]

I guess thats the portion I'm trying to wrap my head around. There is obviously more dead space in the conical portion, not allowing full use of 20 gal. But then the colander is taller than the conical.... Think I could figure it out with it in front of me, but having a hard time visualizing how all the water and grain finds a equilibrium through the two separate pieces.

I'm thinking it would still be the 20g. You can't have anything higher than the height of the conical itself, otherwise the liquid will spill out between the colander and the conical.

 

[KIAKillerXJ]

I'm thinking it would still be the 20g. You can't have anything higher than the height of the conical itself, otherwise the liquid will spill out between the colander and the conical.

Thats what I'm thinking too. Except it wont be 20 gal, since the colander can't go all the way to the bottom of the conical. So I'm not sure why the colander sticks up so much higher than the conical, except for the tri-clover fitting attached to it.

 

[Boar Beer]

While the kettle may be 20-21 gallons you will need to save a 1/4 of it for head space in the conical. So you biggest batch should be about 15 gallons. If you put in more you just blow the excess out the blow off tube.

Still even if you get 12 gallons of beer it is replacing two 6 gallon carboys

But i still need a HLT to do a proper sparge

 

[KIAKillerXJ]

While the kettle may be 20-21 gallons you will need to save a 1/4 of it for head space in the conical. So you biggest batch should be about 15 gallons. If you put in more you just blow the excess out the blow off tube.

Still even if you get 12 gallons of beer it is replacing two 6 gallon carboys

But i still need a HLT to do a proper sparge

Yes, that's true. Understand that for fermenting volume. Was merely trying to figure out mash capacities with the BIAC setup. I do true full volume BIAB now, with some pretty massive quantities. So, I'd need to scale back, but not sure how much smaller I'd have to go in my downsize.

Current Setup: 25 gal kettle, and full to the brim!

 

[Jimmy82]

Thats what I'm thinking too. Except it wont be 20 gal, since the colander can't go all the way to the bottom of the conical. So I'm not sure why the colander sticks up so much higher than the conical, except for the tri-clover fitting attached to it.

I think it would still be 20g though, because as you add grain, it's going to raise the water level. The only other factor is the amount of water that the colander would displace.

So in the end, what you're looking at is the amount of space that the water + grains + colander displace - all of which combine inside of the 20g capacity of the conical. The extra space on the colander is likely there for convenience (so if you've got a full mash you're not right next to the rim, so you can add the triclover, and for handles to remove it from the conical).

If your concern is that the water level isn't going to be high enough to saturate all of the grains, I don't think it will be an issue. A 10g no-sparge will likely take ~15g of water, filling the conical 3/4 of the way and adding grain will only make that level rise higher.

 

[67cougargt]

If you are recirculating the mash shouldn't the space under the colander not be an issue. I think you could also use a hoist to raise and hold the colander providing space for sparging.

 

[Jimmy82]

If you are recirculating the mash shouldn't the space under the colander not be an issue. I think you could also use a hoist to raise and hold the colander providing space for sparging.

Yes, you can sparge. There's a 2nd set of handles on the bottom of the colander that actually sit on top of the conical so you don't have to keep it lifted..the handles hold it there for you.

 

[67cougargt]

Nice!

 

[Jimmy82]

They just released a couple videos of the BIAC in use:

Full Video
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ojtYKokOD8[/ame]

Short Version
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKdYpaL3a-Q[/ame]

 

[Jimmy82]

My BIAC is shipping next week

MeetsCriteria, have you been brewing much with this? How's the temp control been working out? I'm likely going to have to lower temps, but don't really want to hook it up to a faucet that's always on (would prefer closed loop). Have you been chilling during fermentation? What have you been using?

 

[MeetsCriteria]

I have not had to chill during fermentation yet.

My theoretical solution will be to either use my same temp control system but intermittently putting frozen jugs of water in the 5 gal cooler, vs. finding a cheap / used marine fish tank cooler similar to this (but cheaper):

http://www.jbjchillers.com/contents/en-us/d760.html

If the temp in the basement is still cool enough, I may go ahead and use the water faucet solution...just am not wanting to use a lot of water to do it. I like the closed loop idea the best, for obvious reasons.

I'll probably brew again this weekend, I'm thinking.

Can't wait to see your set-up!

 

[Jimmy82]

My biggest concern with the water faucet solution is coming home to a leak that's been running all day. At least with the closed loop you're limited to the volume of liquid in the circuit.

 

[MeetsCriteria]

My biggest concern with the water faucet solution is coming home to a leak that's been running all day. At least with the closed loop you're limited to the volume of liquid in the circuit.

Yes, that would be a bummer. Only if you had a drain in the floor could you ever feel really safe in that situation.

The closed loop system is low pressure as well. Without a flow restriction I can't imagine it leaking. The ice in the water jug is probably easiest, as you probably would only need it for the first few days of fermentation (depending on ambient temps of course).

 

[cerevisiae33]

I had all but decided to get a 10 gallon setup from stout tanks but after seeing this thread and looking at the BIAC I'm really liking the idea of it. Thanks for sharing your experiences with the Brewha equipment and keep updating us on how its working out.

 

[MeetsCriteria]

Caught a break and got a window of time to brew today.

The idea is a clone of alesmith X. Since I didn't have much to go off of other than the number off Alesmith's website and having tried the IPA and X side by side, I used the widely published Alesmith IPA recipe and backed off on the gravity, as well as using slightly lighter malts (lighter munich and crystal 15L vs. 20L).

In any case, for once I didn't have efficiency issues (which has nothing to do with the 3-in-1, though perhaps has a little to do with the fact that my system has been modified overall)

In any case, I finally hit my numbers spot on. I used the 3-in-1 to preheat my mash water and sparge water. I decided to get the total volume of water to a relative strike temp such that when I added the grain with the herms on, the overall system equilibrated at my mash temp. So for me that was 156 for 11.5 gal (4.5 gal mash tun, 7 gal HLT), which worked great as the system settled at my mash temp of 151.

Thus today, really for the first time, I was fully able to appreciate the experience with the 3-in-1. Deleting the transfer step between the boil and fermentation is such a time saver.