2nd Brew, Does my primary lid not seal properly?

[bhegarty]

I brewed my second batch on monday. It is in a 6.5 gallon ale pail at approximately 68 degrees. I did a full boil this time around and filled the pail to about 5.75 gallons. I figured that I would have some blow off so I hooked up a tube going into a five gallon bucket 1/4 full of sanitizer.

On my first batch, the airlock never bubbled and three days into fermentation the top blew off and krausen was all over the wall of our spare bedroom. I'm glad I was home and cleaned it quick before wifey knew what happened. When I closed the pale this time around I used a rubber mallet to be sure it was closed tightly. So this batch is also in the spare bedroom and I have not seen any bubbling in the blow off pail. You can smell the fermentation and there is a little play room on the lid of the pail where you can lift it a few millimeters before it catches on the pail. The krauzen looks to be almost to the top of the pail. About 2 hours ago I put an empty 5 gallon carboy on top of the pail to see if that would help with the seal of the lid and there still is no bubbling in the blow off pail.

Does my primary not seal properly? Does anyone have any recommedations or thoughts to help a noob?

 

[strider]

Sounds to me like a clogged blow-off. Have u carefully checked that? I can't imagine what would raise the pressure enough to blow the lid w/out a impedance of the blow-off.

 

[bhegarty]

The lid blew off on the first one which i think did have a blocked airlock. There is a blow off attached on the 2nd brew. I checked, this one is not blocked.

 

[bhegarty]

I can also hear the primary knocking and pinging like a car that has just been turned off.

 

[strider]

Oh, sorry mis-read. Sounds like the lid may be a bit deformed preventing a good seal. Might not be a bad idea to put the fermenter in a pan incase any krausen pushes through. Other then that I wouldn't worry.

 

[Rezilynt]

Vigorous fermentation can, will and has blown the lids off of pails. If you look at you airlock, you will see some plastic making a cross (or X depending how you look at it) on the bottom. Cut these pieces off as that is usually what causes the clog. I use a pair of bone scissors. Others use a hacksaw. Regardless, it's pretty easy to get them off of there.
I also always use a blow-off even when I'm sure I don't need it. It's always better to be safe than to have the swmbo pi$$ed at you

 

[davesrose]

I can also hear the primary knocking and pinging like a car that has just been turned off.

Yep.....sounds like you've still got a lot of pressure in there. Sounds to me like you don't have much space for the Krausen, so that lid might pop off again at any moment. Congrats that these problems are hapening to you now!! I didn't have those problems til much later (and unfortunately when I was brewing in the house that I bought and not the apartment). Makes me wonder if the real way to spot a home brewer (if not a kegerator) is stains on the ceiling!!

Anyway...back to topic....what diameter is your tube? I have found the smaller diameter ones just aren't big enough to let enough gas escape (and hence my ceiling stains). 1/2 inch or so....either one that lets you go in the lid without the grommet, or slipping one over the barrel of an airlock.

 

[bhegarty]

True, I was just told by swmbo that I was obsessing over my beer because I was sitting there stairing at it waiting for the blow off to bubble.

 

[bhegarty]

I think you mat be right, the blow off is in a grommet with small tubing, I don't know the size. It is probably the same as the one that connects to the spigot of the primary. I don't need this thing blowing while i'm at work for 8 hours. That is the largest tubing that I have.

 

[Rezilynt]

You do have the end of the tube in a large enough container, correct? What is the temperature at?

 

[bhegarty]

the tube is in a 5 gallon bucket 1/4 full of sanitizer. the temp of the primary is 68.

 

[bhegarty]

the end of the tube is in a 5 galoon bucket 1/4 full of sanitizer. the temp is 68.

 

[bhegarty]

with my luck, this thing is going to blow at 9AM tomorrow while i'm at work.

I guess I can release the pressure by opening the lid?

 

[strider]

Imho, if u are sure the tube is not clogged, this is a deformed lid... maybe from the last blow. If there was enough pressure to blow the lid and the BO was not clogged, it would go out the tube. My last post was being written before your one about the noises, and that is odd. Can u localize it? Might it be gas escaping around the rim? Is the top significantly bowwed outwards?

 

[davesrose]

Better you obsess then to have a lid explode and you have to clean krauesen again! Sounds to me like your tube might be too small. Since there's already a pinging noise, I'd be very careful....but try cracking the lid open: and someplace where you don't mind a mess. If there is a ton of pressure build up, krauesen might fly. But at least you'll have relieved the pressure on there. If you can't get a larger diameter tube right now, I'd probably do that snip your airlock's end trick....stick that airlock back on, and then put the pail in a bathtub. The airlock, at least, will prevent the pail from getting too much pressure buildup. The krauesen will probably bubble over....right into your bathtub at least.

I would go ahead and crack the lid partially open to check things out though.....when it's krauesening, there's a lot less chance of contaminating the beer.

 

[Rezilynt]

Cool = that's big enough to avoid the wrath of swmbo if it happens again and the temp is fine. I was worried about it being too hot.
Did I read correctly that you have the airlock on PLUS a separate blowoff tube?

 

[strider]

It's a trick to attatch blow-offs to buckets. Stick the end of a hose over the center part of a airlock, cut off the "X" at the end and insert airlock into bucket. Do not use middle piece or cap.

 

[davesrose]

Did I read correctly that you have the airlock on PLUS a separate blowoff tube?

Sounds like the OP was saying that he had a tube small enough to fit the hole of the lid with gromet in place. IMO, that's very risky. I have had lids blow off with diameters that small: especially ones doing a vigorous ferment. If you don't have a larger tube at the moment, putting the airlock on and putting the pail in the bathtub is the best option IMO.

 

[Rezilynt]

Both Strider and daverose have good points. I just re-read every post. I'm wondering about the noise as well - hence my last question.
If the noise is coming from the lid itself, more than likely you'll just have krausen falling down the side of the bucket instead of a blown top.

 

[Rezilynt]

Sounds like the OP was saying that he had a tube small enough to fit the hole of the lid with gromet in place. IMO, that's very risky. I have had lids blow off with diameters that small: especially ones doing a vigorous ferment. If you don't have a larger tube at the moment, putting the airlock on and putting the pail in the bathtub is the best option IMO.

I agree. I am hoping he has one fixed up like this though (Revvy's pick) - it works really well as long as the x is cut off:


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/airlock-bubbling-over-95581/

 

[davesrose]

If the noise is coming from the lid itself, more than likely you'll just have krausen falling down the side of the bucket instead of a blown top.

Well this does remind me of one imperial stout that I was brewing once.....I noticed that the pail would "pop" every so often with the airlock, so I tried putting a blow off tube on. By itself, I noticed that it wasn't relieving enough pressure. You could literally see the lid start bulging upward....and I didn't have a larger tube at hand. So I tried getting the perfect parabola shape to the tube (so there was no kinks or anything), and I also put a big weight down on the lid. There was enough of an equilibrium that the lid would swell a little, and then let out a big burp.

I think we can eliminate my pressure idea by carefully cracking the lid open. You should be able to determine if there's any pressure buildup that way IMO, knocking noises mean pressure....whizzing noises means lid seal. If it's not pressure, at least you won't have a mess on your hands!

 

[davesrose]

I agree. I am hoping he has one fixed up like this though (Revvy's pick) - it works really well as long as the x is cut off:


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/airlock-bubbling-over-95581/

+1 on the airlock with tube over. All my blow offs are like that now. Sounds like there isn't a tube large enough for the airlock (right now, overnight)....so airlock at least will eliminate the pressure. Put in tub for the bubbling over. And then for the 3rd brew, do the Revvy's pick approach.

 

[strider]

Another thing to check is pushing down the center of lid. See where the excess volume goes. I have never had a lid blow on me though. My second batch in a 6.5 carboy made a krausen sculpture (no clog) and I rigged up a airlock blowoff for subsequent buckets.

 

[bhegarty]

just a blow off tube connected to a stopper.

I opened the top (i love that smell) the krausen is about 1 inch from the top. It didn't seem like there was a ton of pressure in there.

The lid seems normal and isn't bowed.

When i push on the top of the lid the water moves easily in the blow off tube. hmmm

 

[bhegarty]

so i looked at the pictures in the link to revvy post and checked my tubing and it seems to be the slightly smaller than the airlock and doesn't fit around it.

Time to move it to the bathtub.

 

[davesrose]

When i push on the top of the lid the water moves easily in the blow off tube. hmmm

One thing that I've noticed with my ferments (since looking at these things is fun....especially in a carboy), is that more CO2 seems to come out when the krauesen has already grown and is starting to settle. Looks like there still might be some more activity for it to grow some more. And when you push on the lid, is there any gurgle in your blow off pail? I'd try pushing on it again after some time (as you have to let the top of the pail get some more pressure again before you see any gurgling in the blow off pail). Getting some krauesen up the tube when pushing doesn't mean too much....as it's more about letting the gas escape. Could very well be that the lid is letting gas escape somewhere. If so, nothing to worry about.

 

[strider]

The only other thing I can think to test if it's the lid or blow off is something u Do Not want to do when there is brew in there. Whatever u decide to do now, after the beer is out blow into the blow off. That should tell u if u have a bad seal.... still my opinion. U could try pluging the blow off and pushing on the lid, but U will still be applying downwards force on the lid. Just shove it in the bathtub a see what happens

 

[alpo]

You can get an extra lid for a couple bucks. If you only have one or two fermenters, it's probably worth it to get another just to eliminate that possibility, if you have a LHBS nearby. You're eventually going to want another fermenter eventually anyway, so even if you buy an extra lid and the problem turns out to be the airlock, then you won't have to buy another lid when you buy another fermenting bucket. If the new lid doesn't solve it, then you've narrowed the problem down to the airlock.

It's like working on an old car. It doesn't hurt to swap out cheap parts that you're going to need in the future anyway.

IMO, anyway.

 

[strider]

Lol... or computers It's just a pain when the suspect part is the mobo.

 

[davesrose]

Lol... or computers It's just a pain when the suspect part is the mobo.

That reminds me of my worst computer story.....got a virus that corrupted the BIOS and I knew I needed a new mobo. Was on the phone for 3 hours getting jumped around Dell service in order to get a replacement....and I knew what I needed!! Now I buy HP! Sorry for the

 

[bhegarty]

That's because your Dell call was to Mumbai.

 

[strider]

OT { Nice thing about building ur own, no hassling with custumer dis-service. Also GB, never had a currupt BIOS but I know if I did, it would be a none issue. Although HP did try to charge one of my X's 700 bucks for a broken power socket on a laptop. 30 minutes w/ a screwdriver an soldering iron and 20 bucks getting ripped off on ebay solved that. Granted, thats the way w/ laptops... one of the reasons I hate them. Ok.... enough hijacking this thread.
}

 

[davesrose]

With the number of departments I was being directed to (tech support>customer service>tech support>RMA>customer service)....made me wonder if maybe I was talking to all parts of the world!!

My favorite was then I bought an Alienware....which ironically later got bought out by Dell. Their tech support is all named "Anthony", yet they're all in Costa Rica.

Ah, the troubles with brewing seem so much better as you can do something about it!!

edit: RE building your own.....yep, all my desktops are now DIY builds.....except some of my workstations I might try going with a company as I can't seem to find very many good deals on Nvidia Quadro cards for CAD work.

 

[Rezilynt]

How did this end up so far?

 

[bhegarty]

So I just came in from work and there is krausen slowly leaking out from under the lid. I guess the lid doesn't seal properly after all and I need a new one.

 

[bhegarty]

Is a new lid an immediate need tonight?

Or is completion of the 2 week primary fermentation going to be OK with the current lid?

 

[Rezilynt]

You'll be ok for now. After it stops, I'd get one. It's def not an emergency or anywhere close.