240V panel on 12/2 240V outlet

[Outbred]

I traced it back to the panel. It's coming from a double 20a breaker.

Going to the depot to get a multimeter tomorrow.

On another note, does anyone have any recommended reading material for electrical matters? I want to know more about the topic before I build anything.

 

[The10mmKid]

Yes, absolutely bring it up to code.

Great suggestions, thank you!

Suppose that is a 5-20 outlet wired 240v, does it need to be switched to a 6-20 to be up to code?

I might as well correct it now if so.

 

[The10mmKid]

does anyone have any recommended reading material for electrical matters? I want to know more about the topic before I build anything.

http://www.mikeholt.com/technical-categories.php

 

[ajdelange]

I traced it back to the panel. It's coming from a double 20a breaker.

And was the uninsulated wired connected to the ground bus (other bare wires) or the neutral bus (other white wires)?

You definitely should replace the outlet with a 220 V outlet so someone doesn't come along and try to plug a 120 V piece of equipment into it (or have to go through all the uncertainty you have). One other little detail: The white wire (I assume the cable you have is white, black, bare) needs to be marked Red or Blue (red would be more usual) wherever it is visible i.e. in the box and the panel. This tells anyone looking in there that there are two separate phases (ungrounded conductors). It's obvious at the panel end (as they go to ganged breakers) so not so important there if you don't want to open the panel again.

 

[z-bob]

Get a multimeter! If you don't have access to one, buy one immediately! You can get them on Amazon for $15. You will easily be able to verify your outlet.

If you arent comfortable sticking probes in to check, abandon the project now. I'm all for learning as you enter new projects, but there isn't a lot of room for error with electricity. I'm not saying you shouldn't embark on this journey, I have learned a ton in the past few months myself, but you definitely shouldn't until you have some basic knowledge and confidence.

You can get one FREE at harbor freight with a coupon they publish all the time. (and they are surprisingly decent meters)

I didn't get past the NEMA 5 outlets in the diagram and the talk about 240V.

Ground and Neutral are the same thing in the Service Entrance cables and enclosures (including the meter box.) Once you reach the first disconnect (it's at the meter or the main breaker panel), ground and neutral diverge should never meet again.

 

[The10mmKid]

Outbred, looking inside your panel:
It is code if multiple neutrals and grounds are connected to the same terminal bar. This signifies that the panel is the first, last, and only 'Common Bond' point.

If the above is true, you can verify it by looking for a green colored screw through one of the bars. It completes the panel bonding.

That being said, an electrician that takes pride in his work will make every effort to keep them separated for nothing more than appearance.

One other thing to look for while in there is all your neutral wires need to be singly under a screw. I.E., one white wire only under one screw. This was a code change. (Don't recall when)

'da Kid

 

[Outbred]

Alright, the outlet is 240v as verified by multimeter and has a 5-20r mounted.

Clearly not optimal.

I'm going to replace it with an L6-30r and make that outlet type the standard throughout the whole build

 

[ajdelange]

Outbred, looking inside your panel:
It is code if multiple neutrals and grounds are connected to the same terminal bar. This signifies that the panel is the first, last, and only 'Common Bond' point.

Panels come in a variety of configurations and I can't claim to have seen them all but as they are 'listed' equipment I think we can assume they are all more or less the same. They have separate bars for neutral and ground each of which has numerous small screws for branch circuits and a larger one (usually at the top and not always there for the earth bar) for connection to, respectively, the neutral and the ground sources. The neutral bar is insulated from the panel box. The grounding bar is connected to it. If the large circuit breaker at the top of the stack is the 'service disconnet' which means that if you open that there is no electric to the entire building, then the two bars will be interconnected i.e. the neutral bar will be connected to the ground bar somehow as by a jumper wire between the two, a metal bar between the two, or, in some configurations where the bars are adjacent, by a bonding screw. It is this interconnection, where the panel is the 'service entrance' or lack thereof, where the panel is not (multiple panels in a single dwelling or sub panels) that determines whether a system is properly grounded (given that a proper earth source is available...).

If the above is true, you can verify it by looking for a green colored screw through one of the bars. It completes the panel bonding.

I have three panels and a sub panel in my house in which none could be bonded by a screw as the neutral and ground bars are quite distant from one another. IOW that is not the only way in which bonding jumpers can be installed and the absence of the screw does not indicate that the panel is not to code.

That being said, an electrician that takes pride in his work will make every effort to keep them separated for nothing more than appearance.

Even if the panel is the service entrance with the two bars bonded the neutrals should go to the neutral bar and the earths to the earth bar. While it wouldn't make any difference electrically (just as it doesn't make any difference electrically what colors ungrounded conductors are) I'm guessing that to intermix earth and neutral wires on the either of the bars would be a code violation. It would certainly be bad practice.

 

[Fatman_Brew]

Alright, the outlet is 240v as verified by multimeter and has a 5-20r mounted.

Clearly not optimal.

I'm going to replace it with an L6-30r and make that outlet type the standard throughout the whole build

Sounds like you are headed in the right direction. Confirm the bare conductor is on the ground buss bar (move it if it on the neutral buss bar) and you will have a HHG circuit. That will match your intentions in your OP.

 

[Outbred]

Will check. Hopefully is correct at the panel

 

[z-bob]

If the wire originates in the panel where the neutral bar is grounded to the case (99% of the time this is the main panel unless you're in a mobile home) it doesn't really matter whether it's connected to the ground bar or the neutral bar -- they are still the same thing at that point. It's more "workmanlike" to put it on the ground bar, but that's all.

If it's a small panel and was installed a long time ago, there might only be one terminal bar. Don't go messin' with it unless you know what you're doing.

 

[ajdelange]

... it doesn't really matter whether it's connected to the ground bar or the neutral bar -- they are still the same thing at that point.

They aren't the same. They are just electrically connected at the service entrance. Indeed it does not make, therefore, electrically, at the service entrance, any difference whether one connects to one bar or the other but it does not make any difference, electrically, whether the neutral is white, nor whether empty slots in the panel box are covered but the code requires these things as it does that the ground be connected to the ground bus.

It's more "workmanlike" to put it on the ground bar, but that's all.

That's actually sufficient for a violation as 110.12 requires installations to be workmanlike.

408.20 says that grounding conductors may not be connected to a terminal bar provided for grounded conductors (neutral) unless that bar is identified as being for that purpose, and, of course, the panel is one where the grounded/grounding bond is required or allowed.

 

[z-bob]

That's actually sufficient for a violation as 110.12 requires installations to be workmanlike.

408.20 says that grounding conductors may not be connected to a terminal bar provided for grounded conductors (neutral) unless that bar is identified as being for that purpose, and, of course, the panel is one where the grounded/grounding bond is required or allowed.

That's why I used that word. It is reason enough to fail an inspection, but this isn't an inspection. It's not a good enough reason (in my opinion) to have a homeowner who doesn't know what he's doing mess with it.

 

[Outbred]

Don't worry I know better than to go dickering around in the breaker box.

 

[ajdelange]

It is reason enough to fail an inspection, but this isn't an inspection. It's not a good enough reason (in my opinion) to have a homeowner who doesn't know what he's doing mess with it.

Ah. I see your point.