240v eKeggle BIAB

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BeardedBrews

BeardedBrews

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Just what the world needs, more eKeggles!

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I am building this one on a bit of a whim to see how cheap I can get the whole thing together. My original hope was that I could sneak in under $200, but that turned out to be unreasonable.

You can view my running parts list here. I tried to capture at least most of the small things that add up by the end of a build...

My control box is as bare-bones as I can make it while maintaining some level of safety and sanity. I am using a $6 ammo can from Harbor Freight and everything looks like it will fit pretty cleanly.

The wiring diagram is here. I have since removed the DC fan and mounted the SSR heat sink external to the ammo box. Also, while the diagram omits the grounds to the switches and outlets, they are present.

I will be going 30a breaker in the main box of my garage -> 50a GFCI -> Controller. That will keep the wiring gauge down inside the box for me.

I have the main components mounted in the control box now. I need to decide if I want to use panel mount 120v outlets or just stick in a standard wall outlet. I also went ahead and potted up my cheap-o eBay element to an equally cheap-o Amazon dryer cord.

The pictures of the control box and element are here.

I haven't really started on the keg yet. I did a spot of polishing to make sure it actually worked, but now it's just going to sit until I get the electrical done. I'm using a BrewHardware 5/8 dip tube which I have to say is a pretty impressive piece of hardware considering the price.

Keg and Hardware Pics are here.

GFCI pictures are here

To Do List:
1. Wire the control box [DONE]
1.a. Replace the SSR [DONE]
1.b. Replace the PID [DONE]
1.c. Replace the Temp Probe [DONE]
2. Wire the 50A GFCI Panel [DONE]
3. Cut the Keg [DONE]
4. Drill the Keg [DONE]
5. Make Beer [DONE - Oktoberfest 11/7/15 Successful]
6. Polish the Keg [On Hold - Reflectix looks pretty good]


I don't think I will have time to do this project and brew a batch of Fest beer this weekend, so progress might be a bit slow. I will try to grab pictures as I go, and if you want any clarification just shout.

Thanks for all of the inspiration guys!

-B
 
The wiring is mostly done. Still need to connect the mains and ground lug, but the rest of the wiring fit pretty easily. It looks like a savage mess, but it is actually not that bad at all.

I will epoxy in the outlets when I get the next chance to work on it.

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The original link to the control box pictures has been updated.
 
OK, cut and drilled the keg, everything came out well, no hardware leaks.

I finished the connections in the box and tested everything twice, no shorts. GFCI spa panel is installed so I got to take it for a test spin.

Turns out my SSR is locked on, so I'll have to get that replaced...

Ah well, water boiled great and no high temperature leaks either.

jg0KAgx.jpg
 
Tuesday Update - I contacted the eBay seller for the PID/SSR and he is going to ship me a new SSR.

In the mean time, as I read the specifications on this REX-C100 that I have I am realizing that it is just not exactly what I wanted for this build. It is locked to °C, K-Type Thermocouple locked, and it doesn't have Manual control mode. Any one or two drawbacks would probably be fine, but together they add up to a bummer.

Instead of waiting for the SSR I put in an order for a more apropriate MyPin TD4 PID and a new SSR. They were a $30 combo on Amazon and should fit the bill much better. As an added bonus, they will deliver tomorrow.

When I swap out the PID I will also be swapping in a PT-100 based RTD to bump up my temperature accuracy a bit.


Unrelated - my BIAB bag came in from The Brew Bag. The quality is as good as everyone has described, I think it was money well spent.
 
My brew bag came in, great quality and fit, couldn't be happier.

FvhsMuR.png


I also splashed out for $25 in Reflectix at Lowes. One 25 foot roll gave me four full wraps on the keg, four full layers for the lid insulation, and I have a good bit left over.

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I still need to build some sort of stand before I can call this project "Done" but overall I am very happy with the way it turned out.

I dumped in 6 gallons for a water test, figuring it would be the worst case scenario for mash temperature stability:

Heating (6 Gallon Test)
60F -> 160F about 15 minutes
160F -> Boil about 10 minutes

Mash Stability (6 Gallon Water Only)

Starting at 70C (158F) I lost right around 4C in 80 minutes, and the temperature loss was fairly linear. This is with the reflectix on and the lid closed but I did not give the keggle any time to pre-heat (the top and bottom rims were still cold when I started the timer).

This isn't quite the 0 temp loss over 240 minutes that some people on HBT like to talk about, but I think with grain in the bag and an extra few minutes to heat the keg before strike, I will be just fine.
 
I ran my first brew-day on Saturday and things went fairly smoothly.

I was within 0.3F of my target mash temp after dough-in, which was a promising start. I saw some fairly quick temperature loss at the beginning of the mash which was disappointing but after a rigorous stir the temp bounced back up. With the fairly thin mash I am thinking I saw exaggerated stratification on the temperature (my probe is low on the kettle.

The BrewBag worked great, much better than my old paint strainer approach, no husks stuck in the bag after a quick rinse and flip.

I tried applying heat with the bag and grain in place and the insulation of the grain was too much. No scorching, but putting heat to the element caused heavy thumping (boiling on the element) if I didn't stir the mash back up into suspension first. In retrospect I don't think that it really needed the heat so I am going to try just regular stirring next time.

During the boil I found that 50% power gave me a nice steady rolling boil. As everyone always mentions, the Silence of the boil was super awesome.

I stretched the bottom few coils of my IC out to let it sit partially above and partially below the element. It worked ok but there are quite a few coils out of the wort with a 6-gallon batch. Not sure I'll change anything, I was still down to 65F in 13 minutes, good enough for me.

I over-estimated my boil-off and kettle losses by about 1/2 gallon, which turned out to be good as I under-estimated my efficiency. I ended with a 70% brew-house efficiency and put a full 6 gallons into the fermenter. I hit a 1.053 vs an expected 1.054 gravity which is good enough for me. The only other mishap is that I forgot to check the AA on my Hallertau which turned out to be 5.9% instead of my planned 3.75%. I probably got 10-12 more IBU in the beer which pushed me out of style guidelines but will probably taste just fine.

2015_11_09_06_56_04.jpg
 
Thanks for posting on my thread! This looks like a good cheap start for me!

I'll be looking over your design and see if I have any questions.

Thanks!
Kevin
 
Not a problem Kevin, I've done two batches on it now and I am pretty happy (added an IPA this past weekend).

I am adding a few brew-day pictures for anyone who was interested, along with some hardware tweaks.

I put snaps onto the straps of the BrewBag, they worked out great for holding the thing in place during the mash. I just used epoxy to mount the other half of the snap to the keg.

KxQI43P.jpg



The Brew-Day Album is here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/389v62p3ymtpv87/AAC7W_ODFqrRwAPbdWJMqR0La?dl=0

oGTOtOn.jpg
 
What are the two switches? I assume 1 is main power, and the other is a switch for your pump?

Thanks!
Kevin
 
On one side I used a 30 Amp Double-Pole Double Throw switch from Lowes to connect and disconnect the two 120v lines going to the element. If you are looking at one of PJ's diagrams, or Kal's website, this switch replaces the "240v -30 Amp Contactor". When the switch is on, the PID/SSR can control the element, when the switch is off both 120v legs to the element are disconnected.

On the other side I have a normal 15 Amp Single-Pole Single Throw switch to turn one of the 120v Outlets on and off for the Pump. The other outlet stays on all the time to power my exhaust fan.

[Edit]
I should mention that whenever I am plugged into the GFSI outlet there is power inside the box at the following locations:

SSR (First 120v Leg)
DPDT (Second 120v Leg)
SPST (Second 120v Leg)
PID (Second 120v Leg)
120v Outlet (Second 120v Leg)

The only power available outside of the box with all the switches "OFF" is the single 120v outlet.
 
I thought you couldn't autotune a TD4. TA4's yes.. but not TD4's... lets hope I am wrong with this.

Nice anyway.. I'm slowly doing the same to my keggle.. I am building two boxes one with a MyPin TA4 that I had already for mash, and then a SSVR box for boil.. with what I had making two boxes was cheaper...

What kills you on the eBIAB projects are the 240V plugs/sockets and the Spa Panel... well that and 10 ga wiring if you want to do it right and according to the NEC...(which I know technically doesn't apply unless it's attached to the structure, but they are good guidelines anyway)...

With your comment of the 50% boil though I wonder if I shouldn't have skipped the SSVR box for boil and just did a large diode for boil.. maybe I'll try that when I build up the PID box...

And I can't tell you how much that looks like what I've built already... even the p38i pump and structure to protect it. :)

Fred
 
UndeadFred said:
I thought you couldn't autotune a TD4.
Click to expand...

Hey Fred,

I had a momentary panic on that too when I went to do my first test run. It turns out the TD-4 does have an Auto-Tune.

http://milantrend.com/TDusermanual.pdf


You are right that the costs can add up quickly, especially with stuff that you want to ignore like wires. I saved a good bit in that department by stealing wire here and there.

The 4-Wire range cord was 10' long so that gave me plenty of extra for the 10-ga stranded inside the control box. I had about 4' of leftover 10-ga 3+1 in the garage from the guy who built it, so I went with mounting the GFSI panel approximately 4' from the breaker :D

I also saved a bit while still staying in code by putting a 30 Amp breaker in the main box instead of a 50. That meant I could run smaller wire down to the 50 Amp GFCI without breaking the rules.


If I was in your shoes I wouldn't add a second control box at all. The PID can run in manual mode regardless of what the RTD is reading, I would just unplug the HLT element and plug in the BK one then switch to manual and turn the element switch back on. That way you don't have to buy the second SSR/Heat Sink and the bits and bobs to hook it up.
 
The controller looks nice. I built one similar to it for RIMs, Heat Sticks and a Smoker Controller in the same HFT Ammo Box. Check out my youtube of the build:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlAs5w4wGPs[/ame]

I highly recommend putting a fan and vent holes on the box (or run it with the lid open). Mine doubles as an Electric Smoker controller. One of the first times I used it as this I ran it for two hours in the sun with the lid closed. It melted the SSR (see the video). To fix this I added a PC fan to the 3V relay output on the PID.

I added a switch to pins 8 & 9 on the PID so I could use both K style and PT100 temp sensors. I also put a plastic shelf on the inside lip so I could store a sensor inside when not in use.

Finally, I separated the outlets with one switched for a pump and the other controlled by the PID (there is also a twist lock outlet on the same circuit)

I know you said you have a spa panel for GFCI. But, if you put a 20A GFCI outlet on a 12ga extension cord, you can make this portable and use a heat stick to help get a propane boil going faster or use a RIMs while mashing outside.

Here are some pics of my portable controller build. It has been a great equipment addition.

20151117_232209_resized.jpg


20151117_232004_resized.jpg


20151117_232220_resized.jpg


20151117_232240_resized.jpg


20151117_231951_resized.jpg
 
BitterSweetBrews said:
The controller looks nice. I built one similar to it for RIMs, Heat Sticks and a Smoker Controller in the same HFT Ammo Box.

Here are some pics of my portable controller build. It has been a great equipment addition.
Click to expand...

Yours looks awesome. I ended up mounting the SSR heat sink outside the box so the thing can breathe (and so I can touch test the temp). I had originally planned a Oc fan exactly like you did, but so far I haven't needed it.

Im sure I will wire a disconnect for the temp probe like you did, having it attached irritates me no end.

Glad to see I'm not the only one trying to downsize the control box.
 
Nice simple setup. Have yo done any 10 gallon batches? If so what the max gravity without sparging with addition water? I am guessing 1.040 to 1.045

I am trying to figure this number out to decide if I should use the keggle I have and electrify it and go BIAB or continue to use my cooler to mash in.
 
I added volume markings last night so that I could actually track my process efficiency

VPRHdGo.jpg


@30Bones

Your guess is probably pretty close if you want your full boil volume after you pull the grain bag. I plan for about 70% on my BIAB days, and usually am in the ballpark.

If you wanted to go higher gravity, just short the water and top off to the target volume after you mash. The keg can easily hold 30-40# of grain at reasonable mash thicknesses (3 vessel brewing), and even with a hit to efficiency that should be enough to get you into the 1.080's on a 10g batch.

I haven't been doing 10g batches, mostly because I am having a hard time committing to a house tap recipe. I can't get the right balance between "I love how this tastes" and "I love what this costs".

-B
 
Thanks, I think for now I talked myself into using my cooler for a MT and brew like I do now only with electricity.
 
If I was in your shoes I wouldn't add a second control box at all. The PID can run in manual mode regardless of what the RTD is reading, I would just unplug the HLT element and plug in the BK one then switch to manual and turn the element switch back on. That way you don't have to buy the second SSR/Heat Sink and the bits and bobs to hook it up.
Click to expand...

Hmm.. I didn't realize MyPin TD's had a manual mode.. maybe I need a third one of them.. ;)

I have two TA4's.. so probably I am screwed as far as manual mode...

Fred
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Winning an auction on eBay now for a TD4 and SSR for $28 shipped. My temp probe will likely cost more than the PID haha
 
Yup.. but the SSVR I got was like $12. ;) I am cheap. I can run that in series with the TA4 PID which is what I was going to do, or unplug the PID entirely if I'm going to do a stovetop partial mash (and then transfer to the keggle) which I occasionally do when I am in a hurry...

I'll come up with something.. the TD's are harder to find and a little more expensive.. three years ago or so you could but TA4's for like $15.

The great thing is that if I get fed up with the way I'm doing the setup changing from a TA4 to a TD4 is literally a $30 10 minute job.

I could swear that a few years ago the TD's were the cheaper version of the TA's with autotune removed.. but apparently that isn't the case anymore.. they look like two different units..

By the way, you can RTD's (Pt 100) that mount in standard 1/2" NPT thermometer wells for like $8 (scratch that.. it's about $12 now [$13.10 for a US seller] for .. wow this stuff has gone up in price!) if you don't mind waiting three weeks off of e-bay that are good quality..

Fred
 
I have nothing but time, but I also hate buying things twice. eBay has some from off the boat for $8, but I almost think I should buy 2 based on the perceived quality control issues I have had on items i have bought in the past.
 
With eBay I only buy if I can stand the thought of having to buy twice (or wait twice). My first PID came in with a dead SSR. The seller was quick to replace it, but it took time.

That said, my eBay element was crazy cheap, arrived quickly, and works perfectly.
 
For some reason I can't edit my original post. I suspect user error.

I am calling this project 100% complete now. I built a little cart which has my pump permanently mounted, and a pair of hooks to hang my controller box. At the same time I shortened up my pump hoses and got a long drinking water hose to be able to fill and wash the kettle right on the stand.

In the last two brew days I really haven't seen anything that made me wish "man, if only I had done this". The system is simple, I avoid mash-out and still get ~70% brew-house, and cleanup isn't too bad now that I started hooking my kettle drain up to a hose to drain right out of the garage.

Here are the final pictures for anyone that is interested:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rl4vinv21arb9hn/AADauNNBInxkfvzjUAKH0bK4a?dl=0

kNCkgsR.jpg
 
Flip your pump head so the output is above the input. Looks nice and clean. Maybe I will try this method once I get my ekeggle built. Just need to trim off the rest of the lip from cutting the bottom out of the keg (I am bottom drain)
 
30Bones said:
Flip your pump head so the output is above the input. Looks nice and clean. Maybe I will try this method once I get my ekeggle built. Just need to trim off the rest of the lip from cutting the bottom out of the keg (I am bottom drain)
Click to expand...

http://www.chuggerpumps.com/frequently-asked-questions-home-brewing-pump/product-faq/

Chugger told me they didn't care if it faced left or right while mounted horizontally, as long as it was level head-to-motor it would run fine.
 
Nice setup! I'm basically building this exact setup, but my keggle has two elements in it. I plan on starting the build in the next week or two, mind if I swing over to this thread and ask a ton of ridiculous questions?
 
Nice. I'm working on something similar-ish right now. I was originally planning on a taller stand to use gravity, but I got a 20% off at Midwest and splurged on a chugger. Now I can easily build a pulley into the stand.

I just need to get an exhaust fan, ducts, and stuff to build a counterflow chiller and I'll be ready to start building it all.
 
cdubbaya said:
Nice setup! I'm basically building this exact setup, but my keggle has two elements in it. I plan on starting the build in the next week or two, mind if I swing over to this thread and ask a ton of ridiculous questions?
Click to expand...

Happy to help if I can, ask anything and if you need better/different pictures I can do that too.
 
So, I see you have reflectix.. Do you think it would be helpful with my recirculating PID system? I assume you have to take it off at boil, right? I love my system too. It really only takes off about 30-45 minutes off of the brew day but it is all inside and is so much easier. My efficiency hasn't come down but I still stir the mash in the bag every 20 minutes and mash for 90 (I always have enough other stuff to do that it ends up 90 anyway).
 
Any insulation would help in my opinion. I like the reflectix because it looks nice.

I leave it on all through the boil, and take it off when I start to chill.
 
jcglezen said:
Snaps are brilliant. Mos def gonna use that one. Binder clips be gone!
Sweet setup.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

I sent a picture to the brew-bag guys and they said they were thinking about adding it as an option or something. It was really not hard to do it yourself, and it's great to not have one more thing sticking up to catch on.
 
I just found this thread. I am looking at moving from gas to electric and this seems like one of the better ways of doing it rather cheaply.

Are you still happy with your controller box? Anything you would change?

Is the list of equipment you used to build it still accurate?
 
akthor said:
Your 50 amp gfci is wired to a 30 amp breaker? Doesn't that mean you're only getting 30 amps to your element? So why the 50 amp gfci?
Click to expand...

A 5500W element like this - http://www.amazon.com/Camco-02963-Heater-Ripple-Element/dp/B000BPG4LI draws 23A at 240V, so wiring it through a 50A breaker (instead of a 30A) at the box won't change what current gets to the element, only the amperage at which the breaker overloads and trips.

Lots of folks (like me) wire a 50A GFCI spa panel into a 30A 240V circuit at the box. The ground fault circuit interrupt in the spa panel is there to cut off current very quickly to protect you. The slower breakers in the box are there mostly to protect the house i.e., prevent wires melting and fire due to circuit overload or a short.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
But wouldn't it be cheaper to just use a 30 amp gfci instead of a 50?

I have to use a 50amp one since I'm going to be running 2 - 5500 watt elements concurrently.
 
akthor said:
But wouldn't it be cheaper to just use a 30 amp gfci instead of a 50?

I have to use a 50amp one since I'm going to be running 2 - 5500 watt elements concurrently.
Click to expand...

Oddly enough this is rarely the case. A 30 amp gfci breaker for my breaker box was almost twice the cost of the 50 amp spa panel.
 
Brad2287 said:
Oddly enough this is rarely the case. A 30 amp gfci breaker for my breaker box was almost twice the cost of the 50 amp spa panel.
Click to expand...

Yep. Which is why many go with the spa panel option. It was cheaper for me than a bare 50A gfci as well.
 

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