240 volt outlet quote

[wihophead]

I honestly think it easy. i thought it was hard till my electrition showed me.....you hook white & bear to the neurtral bar....black/red to break..in panel pop the sucker in...you got power

Is this hookup at your sub panel or the main panel?

Hmmm....I wonder what difference that could possibly make....

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Is this hookup at your sub panel or the main panel?

Hmmm....I wonder what difference that could possibly make....

Gee, I dunno.............

 

[jay4e]

If your not sure about the breaker box don't mess with it. However I would sugest doing a little research and hitting home depot then runing all the wiring and finding an electrician to come down and set up the breaker and connect the wires. Shouldn't take em more than 15min.

 

[JVD_X]

OK - my panel type is 'Squared D' and also all my breakers.

Something interesting to me [that I never noticed before] is that the sum of all the breakers far exceeds to the 200 AMP main service breaker. I guess technically it would be fairly easy to blow the breaker by turning on a ton of devices on a lot of different feeds. How do you know when to stop adding AMPS to the box?

How do I really know if I need to upgrade my service?

 

[Bernie Brewer]

200 amps is great plenty. No worries.

 

[JVD_X]

For adding two 50 amp breakers?

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Hi folks,

I just got a quote on TWO 240volt 30 amp outlets for my unfinished basement... for $539 US. I have no idea if this is a a good quote...

For about $600 they will include a GFCI breaker into each outlet.

Anybody know if this seems like a good price?

For adding two 50 amp breakers?

Um, why are you putting 50 amp breakers on a circuit that is only rated for 30??? Not only is that a big time no-no code-wise, it's not very wise.

 

[NHRACER]

Um, why are you putting 50 amp breakers on a circuit that is only rated for 30??? Not only is that a big time no-no code-wise, it's not very wise.

You can most certainly connect a 30 amp load to a 50 amp breaker/circuit.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

You can most certainly connect a 30 amp load to a 50 amp breaker/circuit.

You can connect the LOAD, but everything in the circuit (wiring, receptacle rating) must be rated for the overload protection to which it is attatched. Since he is using 30 amp receptacles (and probably ten gauge wire), he cannot use more than a 30 amp breaker. To do so is against code and asking for a fire.

 

[MikeInCtown]

I'm a little late here, but where is the OP located? Perhaps a close by brewer could help.

As mentioned, if the ouitlet is 30 amp then size the breaker at 30 amp. Make the wire 10 guage for 30 amp or go bigger if you are going to do 50 amp soon. With copper prices the way they were, don't go that overboard if you don't think you'll need it soon.

 

[NHRACER]

You can connect the LOAD, but everything in the circuit (wiring, receptacle rating) must be rated for the overload protection to which it is attatched. Since he is using 30 amp receptacles (and probably ten gauge wire), he cannot use more than a 30 amp breaker. To do so is against code and asking for a fire.

Since the outlets have yet to be installed (30 amp). It was merely mentioned about using 50 amp outlets instead. Since the original poster seems to have some smarts, I'm sure he would use the appropriate conductors to handle the ampacity.

Better to oversize a circuit than undersize. I would go for the 50s. Of course take into consideration the existing service panel and the load it currently supports. And what can be added.

 

[MikeInCtown]

Also do not forget that 50 amp outlets and plug ends are significantly more expensive than 30 amp ones.

 

[JVD_X]

Um, why are you putting 50 amp breakers on a circuit that is only rated for 30??? Not only is that a big time no-no code-wise, it's not very wise.

I am adding a whole new circuit... I originally was thinking of adding a 2 x 30 amp outlets but now am considering 2 x 50 AMP outlets or should I say 'lines' because they would be two independent lines from the breaker box.

At this point the original quote of $550ish isn't looking too bad although I have priced out 30 AMP GFI circuit breakers and they are EXPENSIVE. However, when it comes to mixing liquids and electricity I think I can make a case for an extra $200 over the two non-GFCI breakers.

A previous poster suggested I take a step back and look at what I want on the whole and I am now thinking that is not a bad idea. I probably should get an architect to come in a design the bar/brew area and then move forward once a plan has been approved.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Well, I can say this... a few years ago, when I was in construction management, we paid $55 each for 240V 30 Amp circuits, BUT...

That price was part of a whole single family home contract for an electrician, so it's not a fair comparison. I would get a couple more quotes. The price really depends on your individual situation... how many feet of wire needs to be run, how much work is involved with getting the wire to the basement, etc. Also, if you have standard 200 amp service, you need to make sure it can handle the additional amperage.

I must add the price of labor alone can be a big dollar difference depending on what part of the country your in.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Did you ask him how much time it would take. Depending on the distance, you'll have at least $50 in part, more if the distance to the panel is long.

"at least $50 in part", do I understand you correctly EdWort that materials should cost only $50? If so you haven't priced electrical materials lately have you or 30 or 50 amp GFI breakers. Not to bust your chops here.

 

[BrewBeemer]

The panel is about 15 feet from my "brew room" on the same unfinished wall.

They charge $65 just to show up and they are quoting 3 hours of work.

I have plenty of electrical skills, I can build circuit boards, change out plugs, repair switches, but something about screwing around in my breaker box freaks me out.

Completly different world here comparing circuit board skills vs house wiring and codes.
The $65 show up is cheap, in my area it's a lot higher like $85 to $105 one hour billed at show up, this was 6 years ago here in California.

The quote of 3 hours that's a job that has to be looked at before giving any quote, no comment I didn't see what's involved.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Hell, for that price I'd run the wire myself and buy myself something nice for the brewery like a sweet boil kettle or a kegerator. Then again, my dad was an electrician and I grew up helping him wire houses.

I guess it depends on a few key things. How far away from the breaker you are looking to go and if you are hiding the wires in the wall how you want the finished product to look. Since your basement is unfinished it should be a whole lot easier to work with because I'm assuming you have exposed floor joists and you should be able to easily access the breaker and run your lines.

I don't know what the going rate would be for a pro, but I would wire it myself (something else I also inherited from my dad).

How are you going to deal with the moisture from the boil?

I must ask, does your state require electricians to be state licensed as with most states these days? "I would wire it myself", should anything happen like the house burns down kiss off your fire insurance policy paying off.

 

[BrewBeemer]

I don’t know about VA but CA is a disclosure state. You don’t HAVE to get a permit for such work they want you to but you dont HAVE to you just have to disclose the work if and when you sell the house. I would do it myself but that’s just me (I remodeled my entire house with out a permit) you can buy your wire by the foot and slap that puppy together in about an hour for about 100 bucks. If your nervous about the panel (and you should be if you don’t have any experience in one) just have a buddy come do it. Or go buy a book. heck for that matter for free you can have your local electric company pull your meter just tell them your doing an annual inspection and you want to tighten everything in your box. Your power will be out for an hour. Have everything done except the sub work and your good to go.
Cheers
JJ

JayBird; in my city they are pushing for a amnesty program for people that have home improvements and remodels without permits with fines and costs of opening up wall for inspections past a time limit. To disclose work performed when selling sure brings up a red flag and a can of worms to the seller and buyer. Trust me my wife some years ago sold from 41 to 53 houses a year for many years. I have property investments and seen it all from good to death fire trap houses.

To have your power company pull your meter so you can check wire terminal torque, sorry there must be a joke in that statement somewhere. Any good wireman should have no problem checking landed wire to breaker terminal torque while hot, working hot was normal to me up to 480 volt. I worked mostly industrial, certified splicing 13,800 / 12,000 volt with some commercial work. Residential electrical was flat boring besides a can of worms especially from many times over hashed electrical on 60 to 90 year old houses in my city of old victorians. Different do it youself owners over the years scared the hell out of me wondering why they didn't burn down these houses years ago. Heck my son at 16 was doing electrical and working with 240 volt house wiring hot under my guidance. He is very smart and mechanical being raised in a machine shop with Tig, Mig, Bridgeport mill and lathe plus myself helping as a 27 year I.B.E.W. Union wireman. The last 6 years being disabled with a back injury put me out of the trade and on pain pills 24/7.
There must be a reason why we require a 5 year apprenticeship training then a state license test before becoming a journeyman electrician.

Now you and others on this forum know a little more about how I think and where i'm coming from. These are just reply statements not to belittle anyone as I have to much respect towards everyone on this forum, people and life in general. I see life differently the last 6 years and i'm only 55. Moderator if this is way off topic you can remove this reply. Thanks brew brothers had to vent a little.

 

[BrewBeemer]

what i would do is talk to an electrian. Tell him that you will pull the wire & he can do the final hook up if you dont feel confortable. also goto holmesonholmes.com....great site


I honestly think it easy. i thought it was hard till my electrition showed me.....you hook white & bear to the neurtral bar....black/red to break..in panel pop the sucker in...you got power

To get an electrician to finish a half completed or started job is hard to find, I wouldn't touch one myself. I hate house wiring or "dingbat" work, bottom of the barrel electrical work JMO.
As long as the breaker picked up both legs off two different buss legs you got 240 volts and not the same buss legs for 120 volts.
Make sure the two pole breakers have both handles bridged together.
"white and bear"? You must mean the white your neutral or grounded conductor, bear (big mean animal like 'ex wife?). You mean bare or grounding conductor.
To "hook white and "Bear" bare to the neutral bar is a No No if in your sub panel. This panel usually is in the garage closet or laundry room and fed from the main panel that has your meter and main breaker under your service drop outside the house fed from the power company.
Only at the main panel not the sub panel or sub panels if more than one can the grounded white neutral conductor from your service drop, grounded white neutral conductor from the two pole breakers and other breakers and the bare grounding conductors get bonded on a terminal strip at the service disconnect. Grounded (white) and grounding (bare) are landed on sepersate terminal strips in the sub panel or panels, Section 250-28 National Elctrical Code I recall.
The NEC is only a guide for the minimum electrical code safety requirements for the publics safety. Different cities can demand higher restrictions and requirements above and beyond the NEC code book.
Different electrical inspectors have different interpretations of the NEC not counting their attitude even before you say good morning to them. Screw with them they can make inspections a bad experience.

 

[BrewBeemer]

I've been trying to find code for my area... I found the virgina electrical code but -my god- I can't make heads or tails of it.

That above statement shows me a big red flag if you can't figure Virgina's electrical code requirements find someone that understands what their requirements are to get your inspections passed.

As replied by NHRACER; I would regroup and go with a complete 50 amp system, breakers, wire and 50 amp twistloc cord caps. You may be thankful later on being it's a new house should you upgrade to higher wattage heating elements when your brewing system grows. Better and cheaper to plan and build once than pay for a needed 50 amp upgrade later. Limited amps or watts heating sucks.

 

[JVD_X]

hi folks,

After doing a ton of research and reading I have decided to so this myself. I am starting with a single 240 volt circuit protected by a 30 amp circuit breaker. I will use a single 5500 watt element for the HERMS and then turn it off and run a 5500 element for the boil.

I do need to have a residential permit but my county provides services that will assist me with placements and code before I begin any work using a diagram I provide as part of my application.