20 minute boil....am I doomed for DMS?

[petep1980]

For those who read my boil over/burned hand thread from yesterday, this is concerning that batch.

I only had a PM on boil for 20 minutes. It was about 6.5# mash; 5 vienna, 1.5 Munich.

Obviously I couldn't get it back on the mess I made on the stove, so I really only ended up with a 20 minute boil.

How doomed am I for canned corn beer?

 

[The Pol]

For those who read my boil over/burned hand thread from yesterday, this is concerning that batch.

I only had a PM on boil for 20 minutes. It was about 6.5# mash; 5 vienna, 1.5 Munich.

Obviously I couldn't get it back on the mess I made on the stove, so I really only ended up with a 20 minute boil.

How doomed am I for canned corn beer?

I say no, those malts should have no real amount of SMM

 

[malkore]

Time will tell. I wouldn't count it as 'veggie beer' just yet.

 

[Edcculus]

Only really light malts like Pilsner have high levels of SMM. Thats why you typically see 90 min boils on only beers with Pilsner as a base.

The only thing you really risk is low hop utilization and insufficient protein coagulation. All that really means is hazy beer though.

 

[petep1980]

I knew about the poor hop utilization, but I didn't know about the protein issue though. It's my kolsch yeast so it was probably going to be really cloudy anyways.

Thanks for the knowledge on the pilsner malt and DMS though. I didn't know this stuff.

 

[Edcculus]

No problem.

Here is a little more info just for an FYI. DMS is created in the boil by a precursor found in malt called SMM. Kilning malts reduces SMM, which is why DMS flavors aren't a big problem in Pale Ale or darker malts. Since Pils malt is so lightly kilned, it is very high in SMM. SMM has a half life of ~40 minutes in a boil. Therefore, you can't really ever get rid of ALL of it, but a 90-100 minute boil will convert SMM to DMS and boil close to all of it off. This is also why its recommended to chill below 140 as quickly as possible. SMM can still be converted to DMS above 140. The problem is that now the wort isn't boiling, so the DMS isn't being driven off. A lot of people have found this not really to be an issue with the recent surge in "no chill" brewing.

 

[toman8r]

You'll be fine. A typical berliner weisse recipe is like 50/50 wheat/pils with a 15 minute boil (or no boil at all) and they don't have any DMS. DMS is really more of a concern when using lager yeast.

 

[The Pol]

You'll be fine. A typical berliner weisse recipe is like 50/50 wheat/pils with a 15 minute boil (or no boil at all) and they don't have any DMS. DMS is really more of a concern when using lager yeast.

Source??.........
I thought DMS was tied to SMM and boil.... huh

 

[flyangler18]

Source??.........
I thought DMS was tied to SMM and boil.... huh

What toman8r says is true, with some clarification - DMS is really only a concern with very pale all-malt lagers, because there's nothing for the DMS (which is always present to some extent) to 'hide behind', so to speak. Because lager yeast is known for being so clean, flaws will be exposed.

 

[The Pol]

Oh, well that makes sense, I thought he was making a different reference. There is DMS, you just do not perceive it.

 

[remilard]

Source??.........
I thought DMS was tied to SMM and boil.... huh

DMS is evolved during vigorous (read ale) fermentation.

Sources:

1. Common Sense (eg you have been around a fermenting ale and a fermenting lager and have observed that more aromas evolve from the former)
2. Principles of Brewing Science - George Fix

 

[The Pol]

DMS is evolved during vigorous (read ale) fermentation.

Sources:

1. Common Sense (eg you have been around a fermenting ale and a fermenting lager and have observed that more aromas evolve from the former)
2. Principles of Brewing Science - George Fix

So you cant have DMS in an ale brewed with Pils as a base malt, gotcha

 

[petep1980]

Well you guys all made me feel warm inside now. I think this beer really should turn out well despite the disaster.

 

[The Pol]

Our own Wiki sayes that vigorous ale fermentations will reduce DMS by 30%-60%, is that right?

 

[remilard]

So you cant have DMS in an ale brewed with Pils as a base malt, gotcha

I wouldn't say can't but I think it is highly unlikely. If you did a short boil with the lid on, cooled extremely slowly and had a cooler ale fermentation you might get some. I think it takes almost a perfect storm. If you have any 2 of: a vigorous ale fermentation, a vigorous boil, reasonable rapid cooling, then I am pretty confident you don't get above threshold DMS with any grist.

 

[The Pol]

I wouldn't say can't but I think it is highly unlikely. If you did a short boil with the lid on, cooled extremely slowly and had a cooler ale fermentation you might get some. I think it takes almost a perfect storm. If you have any 2 of: a vigorous ale fermentation, a vigorous boil, reasonable rapid cooling, then I am pretty confident you don't get above threshold DMS with any grist.

Thanks, that is good