2 Vessel BruControl RIMS 15 Gallon Brewery Build

[Gameface]

I can’t speak for Brewpi but I do have a BCS-460 (older version than the new one). It’s been ok but I’m switching to BruControl for a few reasons:

1. The I/O is too limiting. On mine, it’s 6 outputs and 4 temperature inputs. Not enough for what I want
2. Communication is twitchy. I have tons of issues trying to connect to it over my wireless network. Really stinks when you drop communication right in the middle of a brew session. It works best when connected directly to your router via an Ethernet cable. Most people don’t have routers in their brewing area.
3. The PID control is limiting. You can only assign PID parameters to a single output and an output can have only one set of parameters. Makes it difficult to manage different batch sizes, flow rates, sparge water heating, etc.
4. The state based control isn’t intuitive. I learned how to make it work, but I’d like something more user friendly.

So you already have all the valves and other sensors you need, mostly just switching to the software?

Do you mind if I ask where you got your valves?

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

So you already have all the valves and other sensors you need, mostly just switching to the software?

Do you mind if I ask where you got your valves?

No automatic valves...yet. Basic manual stainless ball valves for now. I will switch to Brundog’s proportional and motorized valves eventually.

I do have 4 temperature probes but I want at least two more to monitor my water temperatures in and out of the chiller. BruControl works with the thermistors that are part of my BCS system. I’ll repurpose them as well as the relay board, breakers, contactors, and enclosure.

So mostly reusing all my old stuff. Very little won’t get incorporated into the BruControl system. Just the BCS itself won’t be part of the new setup.

 

[Gameface]

No automatic valves...yet. Basic manual stainless ball valves for now. I will switch to Brundog’s proportional and motorized valves eventually.

I do have 4 temperature probes but I want at least two more to monitor my water temperatures in and out of the chiller. BruControl works with the thermistors that are part of my BCS system. I’ll repurpose them as well as the relay board, breakers, contactors, and enclosure.

So mostly reusing all my old stuff. Very little won’t get incorporated into the BruControl system. Just the BCS itself won’t be part of the new setup.

I guess that might be where I end up, except I don't really care to use the software if most of my process can't be automated. It's pretty disappointing since I've bought a lot of stuff and designed a completely new system with the idea that it would be automated and use stuff sold by brucontrol, like the quadzilla element, but it looks like that isn't going to be the case.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

I guess that might be where I end up, except I don't really care to use the software if most of my process can't be automated. It's pretty disappointing since I've bought a lot of stuff and designed a completely new system with the idea that it would be automated and use stuff sold by brucontrol, like the quadzilla element, but it looks like that isn't going to be the case.

Well, one of the things about BruControl that I like is that it’s pretty flexible and can easily grow as your system grows.

Starting out with just heater and pump control and building towards full automation.

It’s pretty “future proof” in that regard.

 

[--Jason--]

I guess that might be where I end up, except I don't really care to use the software if most of my process can't be automated. It's pretty disappointing since I've bought a lot of stuff and designed a completely new system with the idea that it would be automated and use stuff sold by brucontrol, like the quadzilla element, but it looks like that isn't going to be the case.

Out of curiosity, what part of the process would it not be able to help with?

 

[Gameface]

Out of curiosity, what part of the process would it not be able to help with?

Well, pushing a physical button is just as easy as pushing a virtual button. The advantage comes from the flexibility. But if I was going to keep my present system (which I can't because I sold it, buyer is deployed atm) I wouldn't be particularly motivated to switch to a software based solution. What I find most attractive about BruControl is the ability to automate.

And where I was somewhat uncertain about where this build was going earlier today I'm no longer as uncertain. I will be using BruControl and aiming to automate my brewday. I know the first few runs will not be run on a script, but I hope to move to a mostly automated process pretty quickly.

 

[Gameface]

I'm excited to get my hands on the Quadzilla element.

I'm assuming but not 100% sure that it has 4 different elements, all wired separately? So I can tie them together or possibly run two off one SSR and the other two off a different SSR (or 4 separate SSRs if I wanted to go that way)?

 

[popquizkid]

I'm excited to get my hands on the Quadzilla element.

I'm assuming but not 100% sure that it has 4 different elements, all wired separately? So I can tie them together or possibly run two off one SSR and the other two off a different SSR (or 4 separate SSRs if I wanted to go that way)?

I was wondering the same thing actually and if it can be controlled as a "single element" -- basically can quadzilla be wired up to a standard a single L6-30P plug?

 

[Gameface]

I was wondering the same thing actually and if it can be controlled as a "single element" -- basically can quadzilla be wired up to a standard a single L6-30P plug?

Looks like my delivery is coming in early so I'll have it in hand some time today. I'll take pics of the wires.

 

[Gameface]

I know I have one but can't currently find a B type USB cable. Do I need to connect via USB first in order to get the arduino to connect to my wifi network?

 

[BrunDog]

The QuadZilla does have 4 independent elements. You can wire all four in parallel, or 2 pairs, or individual, and drive by 1, 2, or 4 circuits (SSR/contractor) respectively, according to your preferences.

Wiring all four into a single plug is admittedly a little tough - you need to use heat shrink tubing to guard the wires into the plug (the 4 metal jackets won’t all fit).

 

[BrunDog]

I know I have one but can't currently find a B type USB cable. Do I need to connect via USB first in order to get the arduino to connect to my wifi network?

Yes, you do.

 

[Gameface]

The QuadZilla does have 4 independent elements. You can wire all four in parallel, or 2 pairs, or individual, and drive by 1, 2, or 4 circuits (SSR/contractor) respectively, according to your preferences.

Wiring all four into a single plug is admittedly a little tough - you need to use heat shrink tubing to guard the wires into the plug (the 4 metal jackets won’t all fit).

Yeah, I'm seeing that. Do you use a quadzilla element, and if so, do you run it on more than one SSR? I can pretty easily split it between two SSRs/contactors.

What had me concerned about that is PID control. I didn't spend a lot of time thinking it through, maybe there's a really easy solution, but I was worried about how to deal with it. Didn't know if one side would be run at a percentage (manual mode) and the other based on PID and if the PID would ever get confused and or you'd get some sort of runaway situation.

 

[Gameface]

Kind of crappy pics so far, but it's something.

 

[BrunDog]

Nice vessels!!

I power all four simultaneously and let the software do the work. The heater's primary intent is low wattage density for RIMs applications. You can limit the power output easily in software... for example, limiting the PID max output to 25% essentially turns the RIMs into a 120V source.

I suggest you power all four or 2 simultaneously. If you do split it into two... running two PID's with the same parameters is no issue - they will mirror each other.

 

[Gameface]

So some car troubles are putting this on a temporary hold at the moment, but I have a question about the kind of cables people are using. I bought some 3pin XLR cable and I'm sure it will work for some things, but looks like not for everything.

It has a white wire, a red wire and then a bare ground wire that makes contact with the copper shielding. The RTDs I bought come with XLR cables (3-wire, red, red, white) so I'm covered there. But the thing I'm concerned about is the proportional valve. Now it seems like it might be okay because @BrunDog is saying he only uses 3 wires, 24v, ground and control. Am I okay with what I've got or am I going to need different wire for the proportional valves.

I'm good to go on the hydrostatic pressure sensors because they have 15' of wire already that I'll solder into the XLR connector.

 

[Gameface]

Another question regarding the 3-way valves. They are powered 24v (open), 24v (close), ground. When connecting to a relay can I use a single relay that has a NO and NC output, or will I need to connect to one relay for open and another for closed? I purchased a 16 relay SPDT board and I have the room to do it either way.

 

[BrunDog]

I’m a little confused by the XLR having a conductor which is a bare ground wire. If that’s correct, you won’t be able to use these for the RTDs. Can you post up a link or some pics?

Also, one relay per valve: one line to NO and the other to NC per your comment.

 

[Gameface]

I’m a little confused by the XLR having a conductor which is a bare ground wire. If that’s correct, you won’t be able to use these for the RTDs. Can you post up a link or some pics?

Also, one relay per valve: one line to NO and the other to NC per your comment.

Looks like this.

I figure I can still use that as a ground wire? It just touches the shielding.

 

[Gameface]

And I just want to make clear. For my RTDs I have the correct cable. I just want to make sure it's going to be okay for me to use that cable (I think it's microphone cable) if I use that bare wire as the ground. So for the 3-way valves where there is going to be a 24v open, 24v closed and ground, I'm okay using that bare wire as ground? And then with the proportional valves.

I am not using this cable for the hydrostatic pressure sensors or RTDs.

 

[augiedoggy]

And I just want to make clear. For my RTDs I have the correct cable. I just want to make sure it's going to be okay for me to use that cable (I think it's microphone cable) if I use that bare wire as the ground. So for the 3-way valves where there is going to be a 24v open, 24v closed and ground, I'm okay using that bare wire as ground? And then with the proportional valves.

I am not using this cable for the hydrostatic pressure sensors or RTDs.

sorry misread , you answered my question.

 

[BrunDog]

I misread “cable” for connector. Anyway you really should not use that cable - it might work but you don’t want to introduce noise by using a ground wire as a signal wire.

 

[Gameface]

I misread “cable” for connector. Anyway you really should not use that cable - it might work but you don’t want to introduce noise by using a ground wire as a signal wire.

I will only be using that ground wire for ground.

 

[BrunDog]

I misread again... apologies. You said you would not be using that wire for RTD's... which is what I warned against. Carry on!

 

[Gameface]

No brucontrol panel yet, but I expect to start making progress on that very soon.

However, I am using my new kettles, unitank and glycol chiller for the first time today. I'm a few minutes away from mashing in!

Small water test run yesterday was good. Steam slayer worked really well, but I feel like it was producing quite a bit more water than expected. I'm using a 9gph nozzle. I'll have a better idea today as I'll actually be paying attention to time while boiling. Happy either way as it is such an awesome solution to brewing indoors.