2.5 gallon batch size equipment

[taa800]

I've brewed about a half dozen extract recipes and would like to move up to AG brewing. I don't want to have to brew outside with a turkey fryer, so I'd like to make 2.5 gallon recipes and use my stove inside. I also like to have a variety of beer around, so 2 cases of one kind gets to be a bit much.

My question is what kind of additional equipment do I need? I have everything I need to do 5 gallon extract batches (5 gal brew pot, 6 gal primary, 5 gal glass carboy, grain bag, etc). I figure I need a cooler, but what size would be good? Do I need any additional carboys? I read a post from Revvy about using Mr Beer, but I don't have that.

Thanks for the help.

Todd

 

[bad coffee]

Build a ~5 gallon mash tun and you're good to go. Or just do BIAB in your 5 gallon pot.

B

 

[brewmonk]

just realize that all-grain clean-up is more involved than an extract batch.

and when I spend the same amount of time cleaning my system, I have 3 cornies full, before I have to do it again.

 

[Wakadaka]

You could do BIAB or death brewers stove top all grain. You would need another pot to do that though. 2.5 gallons will ferment fine in a 5 gallon carboy, and 6 gallon is also probably fine. You would need a smaller carboy if you want to secondary.

If I were you I would go ahead and buy a bigger pot, and do deathbrewers stove top all grain method. And also scale your recipes to as large as your stove can boil. 2.5 gallon batches are nice because you can cut recipes right in half, but if your stove can boil enough to have maybe a 3-4 gallon batch (or even a full boil) than you might as well. The ingredients are not going to be much more, and since your fermenters can hold it you might as well.

I was planning on doing smaller AG batches until I bought a 7.5 gallon aluminum pot off amazon. With it spread over 2 burners, I can boil about 6.5 gallons on my stove which allows me to do a full boil. My only real limit that I have reached is avoiding a boilover, and I can't get a bigger pot because my microwave is too low.

2.5 gallon batches are just as time and work consuming to make. Also you are going to have to use the same amount of yeast, but you probably wouldn't need a starter, or at least not as big.

 

[Wakadaka]

To check what size mash tun you would need just take a recipe you would want to brew and cut it in half and plug it into

http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

that website. A lot of normal recipes have about 12lbs of grain for 5 gallons, so 6lbs for 2.5 gallons. Probably a 3 gallon cooler would work. If you have to buy one I would go with something that will allow you to do 5 gallon batches in the future though. Easier to buy once and somewhat future proof your equipment.

And one other issue might be cooling. I am assuming you do an ice bath method now with extract batches. If you were doing 2.5 gallon batches that would be fine, and I even still do an ice bath when I do full 5 gallon boils. Takes longer than optimal to cool, but it works

 

[cyclonite]

BIAB - buy some 5 gallon paint strainer bags from Home Depot for ~ $5, then use your existing pot as the mash tun and boil kettle:

- Heat to a bit above mash temp so that when you add the grain, it brings it down to mash temp.
- Put the bag in, wrapping the elastic band over the top of the kettle to hold it in place.
- Turn off the heat and cover with lid. Wrap 2 towels around the kettle and secure in place with 1-2 large binder clips (or anything else that works). Have one extra towel doubled over to lay across the lid.
- Put your grain in, stir to dough in, then put the lid on and cover with towel.
- Stir every 15 minutes or so, whilst consuming your previous batch
- After your hour+ mash, remove bag, hold it up and let it drain over pot. Twist to squeeze left over wort out. Optionally mashout by heating to ~ 165-170 for a few minutes. Optionally sparge with some other hot water heated in a different pot.
- Set grain aside and start your boil. Top off with water if you need to, though with a 5 gallon pot, you should be able to have all the water you need for a 2.5-3 gallon batch using BIAB.

To clean up, simply dump the grain, rinse the bag and set aside. Once the bag is dry, dust it off and the rest of the grain particles will flake off like sand.

BTW - the spent grain makes fantastic compost, or there are recipes for dog treats around the forum if you have a pup!

Your 5 gallon carboy will make a perfect primary for a smaller batch, though you can use any of your fermenting vessels - the headspace will fill with CO2 so no worries on oxidation. Alternatively, Walmart (at least here) has 5 gallon food grade (#2 white HDPE) plastic buckets plus lids that make great primary vessels for smaller batches (available in the hardware section). Get a 1/2" spade bit, drill a hole in the top and buy a bucket grommet and airlock from your LHBS or online. Total cost for fermenter is about $5!

 

[taa800]

I'm not too concerned about spending the same amount of time to make half the beer. I understand some people's concern about that, but I kind of like making it as much as I like drinking it. And as I said, I like to have a lot of different kinds of beer, so I'm willing to put in more of an effort to do that.

What is death brewers stop top all grain, and what kind of cooler do you guys recommend if I were to get a 5 gallon one?

 

[soundsandsuds]

I do 3 gallon batches as well as 5.5 gallon batches. 3 gallon batches are great for stronger beers that might be pretty expensive in a full size and to try out new recipes or beer styles which you're not sure if you'd like.
I highly recommend BIAB.

 

[cyclonite]

Death Brewer's stove top all grain is essentially BIAB with a single dunk sparge, which is the primary method that I use personally. Allows you to do AG with 2 kettles (I use an 8 gallon and a 5 gallon for 5-6 gallon batches). This method is easy, uses your existing equipment for the most part, has little to clean up, and gets fantastic efficiency (particularly if you have your own mill).

 

[cyclonite]

I do 3 gallon batches as well as 5.5 gallon batches. 3 gallon batches are great for stronger beers that might be pretty expensive in a full size and to try out new recipes or beer styles which you're not sure if you'd like.
I highly recommend BIAB. Your efficiency might be a little low, though. If you add a valve to your pot you can sparge properly; though, which will bring it back up.

Agreed - sparging helps quite a bit on efficiency. I am amazed at how well a dunk "sparge" in another kettle does though. I've gone to this exclusively myself because it is ridiculously easy. If you have your own mill, you can mill the grain much finer for BIAB than a traditional MLT (I like to condition the grain so as not to get too much husk breakage). With a single dunk "sparge", I get over 90% efficiency pretty consistently. Without the sparge, and without the mill, I was getting around 70% - still not bad at all, but wow what a difference. Don't know if the milling or dunking is helping the most - I started them at the same time.

 

[Komodo]

a single dunk "sparge", I get over 90% efficiency pretty consistently. Without the sparge, and without the mill, I was getting around 70% - still not bad at all, but wow what a difference. Don't know if the milling or dunking is helping the most - I started them at the same time.

This is great info. I'm planning my return to brewing around this very method with 3 or 4 gallon batches. Can you tell us how you grind your grain? Is it double grind, tighter rollers or what?

Im planning 6 gallon bucket primarys, 3-4 weeks, no secondary, and this BIAB dunk sparge, or possible 2 stage batch sparge...although the dunk is basically that?

 

[Magua]

Agreed - sparging helps quite a bit on efficiency. I am amazed at how well a dunk "sparge" in another kettle does though. I've gone to this exclusively myself because it is ridiculously easy. If you have your own mill, you can mill the grain much finer for BIAB than a traditional MLT (I like to condition the grain so as not to get too much husk breakage). With a single dunk "sparge", I get over 90% efficiency pretty consistently. Without the sparge, and without the mill, I was getting around 70% - still not bad at all, but wow what a difference. Don't know if the milling or dunking is helping the most - I started them at the same time.

What percent of the total water do you mash with? I've just been mashing with all of it, but it doesn't seem to tough to mash with a little less and use that to sparge instead.

 

[cyclonite]

This is great info. I'm planning my return to brewing around this very method with 3 or 4 gallon batches. Can you tell us how you grind your grain? Is it double grind, tighter rollers or what?

Im planning 6 gallon bucket primarys, 3-4 weeks, no secondary, and this BIAB dunk sparge, or possible 2 stage batch sparge...although the dunk is basically that?

I just recently got my mill (a Barley Crusher), and have been playing with the roller settings. I set the rollers tighter than the default and have still been double milling (though the next one I think I am going to just single mill and see what I get). I get a fair amount of floury stuff and pretty small overall crush throughout. Before I got my mill, I would double grind at the LHBS, and got around 82-85% (with the dunk sparge). I also used my brother's 3 roller Monster Mill with only a single milling and got 93%, though he has his rollers set pretty tight too. The third roller is, in effect, almost the same as double milling.

The last batch I tried I conditioned my malt to try it out, and the husks did stay together much better. Got a little flour stuck on the rollers, but it comes off easily.

 

[cyclonite]

What percent of the total water do you mash with? I've just been mashing with all of it, but it doesn't seem to tough to mash with a little less and use that to sparge instead.

I mash with 5 gallons and dunk sparge with 3 gallons, so 60-ish percent water in the mash.

I use the sparge as a mashout also, so I heat it up to around 170F before I dunk. I then steep the grain in the dunk water for 5-10 minutes before I remove. I also have a steam basket that came with my turkey fryer that I use to press as much wort out as I can after I pull the bag - I put the bag in the steamer, which is in turn in the kettle, and then press down with a round cake pan. Nothing drips out after that . This gives me right around 6.5-7 gallon boil size, and 5.25-5.5 gallons on average going into the fermenter, depending on the recipe.

BTW - here is the link to Death Brewer's post, it is a great read and sums up the whole process: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/.

 

[BluWtrBrew]

I was in the same boat. I wanted to try all grain but I was not ready for a big investment until I saw what kind of results I could produce. Anyway, did my first 2.5 gallon batch yesterday. It was very little more trouble than an extract brew.

I mashed in an 8qt pasta cooker at 1.5q/lb. I was afraid to use my nylon bag for the mash because I might have to fire it to maintain the mash temperature. (I did). After I mashed for 60 mins I transfered to my 20qt boil kettle where I had the sparge water up to temp and my bag in place. Used a screen type strainer with a handle to make the transfer right on the stove.

Stirred the grain in the sparge water for 15 mins then poured the "first run" into the bag with the spage, then drained and squeezed. Ready for boil with only one extra pot to clean and it fits in the dishwasher. If I am calculating correctly I got about 72% efficiency.

 

[cyclonite]

I was in the same boat. I wanted to try all grain but I was not ready for a big investment until I saw what kind of results I could produce. Anyway, did my first 2.5 gallon batch yesterday. It was very little more trouble than an extract brew.

I mashed in an 8qt pasta cooker at 1.5q/lb. I was afraid to use my nylon bag for the mash because I might have to fire it to maintain the mash temperature. (I did). After I mashed for 60 mins I transfered to my 20qt boil kettle where I had the sparge water up to temp and my bag in place. Used a screen type strainer with a handle to make the transfer right on the stove.

Stirred the grain in the sparge water for 15 mins then poured the "first run" into the bag with the spage, then drained and squeezed. Ready for boil with only one extra pot to clean and it fits in the dishwasher. If I am calculating correctly I got about 72% efficiency.

Awesome, congrats!!! BTW - if you are worried about your bag and needing to fire up in the mash to get temp back, try throwing a baking/cookie cooling rack into the bottom on the pot - this will keep the bag from directly touching the bottom of the pot, and so will never allow it to get direct heat. Then just fish it out with your stir paddle before you start the boil. I did this before I started wrapping towels around the kettle to preserve the temp (which works great - only lose 1 degree over an hour).

 

[strumke]

Everyone keeps talking about pressing or squeezing the grain to get the last of the liquid out. I thought that you should never squeeze because it pushes more tannins out.

I'm still new to this, so I'm just not sure which is the way to go.

 

[C-Rider]

Everyone keeps talking about pressing or squeezing the grain to get the last of the liquid out. I thought that you should never squeeze because it pushes more tannins out.

I'm still new to this, so I'm just not sure which is the way to go.

for BIAB you can squeeze the H - - L out of it. No problem I do it all the time. Of course I use less than 5 lbs of grain in my 1.75 gallon process. I only loose .25 gallons to the grain starting w/2.75 gallons.

I found this picture of me "squeezing" the grain w/two coffee cups. I can put a lot of down pressure this way and I don't burn my hands on the hot grain.

 

[Wynne-R]

For stovetop brewing, two small pots work better than one big one. I use two 12qt stainless pots from a dollar store. Previously I was using a 16 qt pot and it was all I could do to get it to boil on my electric stove. Now I can use two burners at once.

The 12 qt pots (barely) fit in the oven, so I use the pots to mash in the oven. This gives me good control over mash temperature. I start low, 148̊ F, and with a 175̊F oven I mash out in about six hours.

I use a bottling bucket, with a slotted copper manifold to lauter. I use the bathtub for cooling. The carboys share a laundry closet with my bike stuff.

I live in a tiny apartment, I need this to be as compact as possible, so I pretty much use the whole apartment in my brewing process.

Wynn

 

[strumke]

for BIAB you can squeeze the H - - L out of it. No problem I do it all the time. Of course I use less than 5 lbs of grain in my 1.75 gallon process. I only loose .25 gallons to the grain starting w/2.75 gallons.

I found this picture of me "squeezing" the grain w/two coffee cups. I can put a lot of down pressure this way and I don't burn my hands on the hot grain.

If you're not getting tannins from that kind of a squeeze, then I can't see that being a problem, but any idea why it's okay for this method and not for "normal" brewing?

 

[Revvy]

If you're not getting tannins from that kind of a squeeze, then I can't see that being a problem, but any idea why it's okay for this method and not for "normal" brewing?

Read the truth about the Tannins "Boogeyman," here.

 

[strumke]

Read the truth about the Tannins "Boogeyman," here.

Excellent, thank you!